This week's Sand Snake scene was brought to you by the most beautiful woman in the world (or else) [book spoilers]

[TheCasualObserver]

I think this discussion will not go anywhere. We have to be teenage young males to understand the meaning of the scene.

Cut the scene some slack; it had a couple of good points...

[Philpenn]

Thought it was a cool scene if you've read the books. For the first time with the Sand Snakes we got some introduction to the character's style. From the books we know Tyene's power is in her ability to seduce and attack while appearing all sweet and innocent. That's what I took the scene as, like a a cat playing with a mouse. Totally in control, just toying with him to express her power. Now if you're just a show watcher, it was just boobs.

[protar]

Thought it was a cool scene if you've read the books. For the first time with the Sand Snakes we got some introduction to the character's style. From the books we know Tyene's power is in her ability to seduce and attack while appearing all sweet and innocent. That's what I took the scene as, like a a cat playing with a mouse. Totally in control, just toying with him to express her power. Now if you're just a show watcher, it was just boobs.

We really haven't seen anything to suggest that Tyene is a seductress in the books. She's supposed to show the world the innocent persona of a septa's daughter and then nick them with needles or whatever without anyone knowing. We know she sleeps around and shares men with Arianne, but we haven't seen her acting as a seductress.

That's really another failing of Dorne in the show - In the books the Sandsnakes are not brilliant literary creations but they are colourful and distinct from one another. Somehow D+D managed to fail even at getting the Sandsnake's shallow characterisations right. All the SS are made into fighters whereas in the books that's only Obara and Elia so far. Obara becomes some sort of meditating samurai of all things - when Obara in the books is pretty much the least likely person to meditate. Tyene seems to be more like tomboyish Elia. And honestly in the first few episodes she seems dorky, not really a seductress. And Nym is just a complete non-entity. She's the one who's supposed to be sexy and seductive. But in the show she just isn't really anything.

[Philpenn]

Mayhaps seductress was the wrong word, but the innocent seeming yet deadly part holds.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

We really haven't seen anything to suggest that Tyene is a seductress in the books. She's supposed to show the world the innocent persona of a septa's daughter and then nick them with needles or whatever without anyone knowing. We know she sleeps around and shares men with Arianne, but we haven't seen her acting as a seductress.

She does not sleeps around. She does have a sexual life, unlike many other ladies in Westeros who value virginity about everything, but that's it.

Tyene is in fact, for what it looks like -if you believe her scenes are actually showing her real persona- kind. She said she loves Doran because her father loved him, and unlike her sisters, she seems to respect him for real, not because he's her uncle but because he's her Lord and Prince. Also, he's Arianne's father and she loves Arianne. And while she's strong, she seems a bit docile. She told Doran she was expecting him to tell her what to do and she would do it. She shares that with Oberyn, who, after all, obeyed Doran.

[protar]

She does not sleeps around. She does have a sexual life, unlike many other ladies in Westeros who value virginity about everything, but that's it.

Tyene is in fact, for what it looks like -if you believe her scenes are actually showing her real persona- kind. She said she loves Doran because her father loved him, and unlike her sisters, she seems to respect him for real, not because he's her uncle but because he's her Lord and Prince. Also, he's Arianne's father and she loves Arianne. And while she's strong, she seems a bit docile. She told Doran she was expecting him to tell her what to do and she would do it. She shares that with Oberyn, who, after all, obeyed Doran.

I did not mean "sleep around" in a negative sense by the way. Just that she is known to have an active sex life, and has shared (or attempted to share) at least one guy with Arianne. So by westerosi (and hell, even modern) standards she's implied to be pretty promiscuous. But we don't see her using her sexuality as a weapon in the way Arianne does or Nymeria is implied to.

But anyway, she's primarily Arianne's "more dangerous than she looks" BFF. I do believe she is genuinely kind and she certainly loves Arianne. But there's definitely a dangerous, cruel streak to her - isn't she the one who suggests killing Tommen?

[Good Guy Garlan]

^ No, that's Nym, though she expects Tyene to help her with the assassinations.

Anyway, something else I thought was unintentionally funny about that scene is the clear disconnect between the lame fight scene of 5x06 and the dialogue here:

Obara: He's a singer, if he was a fighter we might've been in trouble.

Eh, Obara, dear, you were in trouble. You and sisters had your asses handed to you by a one-handed man and this "singer."

Bronn: It's against my code to hurt women.

Obara: It's amazing how many men we beat seem to have this code.

Yeah, first of all, bullshit, because Bronn in season one said he'd killed a woman, but D&D are allergic to consistency.

And second, based on what I've seen so far I don't think Obara's boast is well-supported. We saw her "beating" a helpless dude who was buried to his head on the sand, I'm not sure that qualifies as badass.

But hey, boobs!

[Chebyshov]

I did not mean "sleep around" in a negative sense by the way. Just that she is known to have an active sex life, and has shared (or attempted to share) at least one guy with Arianne. So by westerosi (and hell, even modern) standards she's implied to be pretty promiscuous. But we don't see her using her sexuality as a weapon in the way Arianne does or Nymeria is implied to.

But anyway, she's primarily Arianne's "more dangerous than she looks" BFF. I do believe she is genuinely kind and she certainly loves Arianne. But there's definitely a dangerous, cruel streak to her - isn't she the one who suggests killing Tommen?

No that's Nymeria. Tyene suggests the QM plot, but she also is the one who's like "oh no we have to slaughter all of Swann's host, this will be oh so messy!"

The whole thing with Tyene is that she hides under a guise of innocence. She doesn't pop her boobs out and fish for compliments. She walks around with sewing needles that may or may not have poison in them ("her hands are dangerous"), but that's about the extent of it.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Bronn: It's against my code to hurt women.

Obara: It's amazing how many men we beat seem to have this code.

Yeah, first of all, bullshit, because Bronn in season one said he'd killed a woman, but D&D are allergic to consistency.

Maybe he killed that woman without hurting her...

[El Guapo]

^

Bronn: It's against my code to hurt women.

Obara: It's amazing how many men we beat seem to have this code.

Yeah, first of all, bullshit, because Bronn in season one said he'd killed a woman, but D&D are allergic to consistency.

Seriously? You think Bronn was actually telling the truth to Obara and not you know trying to save face that a woman actually injured him.

[protar]

No that's Nymeria. Tyene suggests the QM plot, but she also is the one who's like "oh no we have to slaughter all of Swann's host, this will be oh so messy!"

The whole thing with Tyene is that she hides under a guise of innocence. She doesn't pop her boobs out and fish for compliments. She walks around with sewing needles that may or may not have poison in them ("her hands are dangerous"), but that's about the extent of it.

Oh right, it's been a while since I've done a reread.

But anyway, I agree. Flashing Bronn just isn't Tyene's style, if they had to have that scene (and they didn't) it should have bee Nym doing the flashing. Nym has had absolutely no development, I really feel sorry for Jessica Henwick.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Nym wouldn't flash either. Just because a woman is sexually active and open minded about it doesn't mean she goes around flashing people and screaming "sex sex sex sexuality sex sex sex". That's one cliché that D&D seem to have realised too much on.

[protar]

Nym wouldn't flash either. Just because a woman is sexually active and open minded about it doesn't mean she goes around flashing people and screaming "sex sex sex sexuality sex sex sex". That's one cliché that D&D seem to have realised too much on.

Well Nym does walk around in see through clothes. It would be stupid and gratuitous either way, but if they really wanted that scene I don't get why they had to give the seductress trait to Tyene.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Seriously? You think Bronn was actually telling the truth to Obara and not you know trying to save face that a woman actually injured him.

Why would he save face with them? All he got was a paper cut, he said so himself (before he knew he got poisoned). He even mocked them in the previous episode ("you fight well, for a little girl"), so why is he being all Sainty SaintPants now with all that code bullshit? He's an unapologetically immoral asshole, that's his thing.

[Denam_Pavel]

I'd say Tyene in the books looks and sounds innocently, but she's not that committed to acting like it. She asks Ser Balon if the Mountain died painfully with the frankness of asking for tablesalt, sending chills down his spine. And that's the only scene of her in which she wasn't in private company and just mouthing off Doran.

But yeah, Show Tyene's an amalgamation of Arianne and Elia, with Nymeria's knives and Tyene's poison. Nymeria's left with nothing.

I mean, the Dornish fight with spears, though clearly the fight choreographer doesn't understand you stab with spears, slicing with them is gonna look hella unwieldy, and knives as a way of administring poison ain't the worst idea, though the septa shtick is more original (and more relevant to her role next season), but Nymeria is just random whip girl. Supposedly she's the smart, political one, but Obara and Ellaria are the only making all the decisions so not really.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Bronn has a code? Wasn't he ready to kill a baby for the right price?

[Denam_Pavel]

I'm guessing this was them making us feel bad that they're killing him off.

But after the way this seasons been, and now we know more about the last three episodes, I think they pussied out. Afriad it's just gonna be Doran and Jaime talk, scene where Ellaria bowes too Doran and that's it for S5 Dorne.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Bronn has a code? Wasn't he ready to kill a baby for the right price?

Bronn has a code? Wasn't he ready to kill a baby for the right price?

Precisely my point. If there's one character in the series that most definitely has no code it's Bronn, and he never pretends he does.

[Gogossos]

"Not that there's anything wrong with nudity."

"Tyene poisoned Bronn, yada yada yada, boobs" lol

[Lord Damian]

The Porne tripplets looked like the Hanson brothers from "slap shot" sitting there in prison. That whole thing is such a stupid joke. They should have just cast Arianne, Quentyn and left Aimee Richardson and kept Trystan. Let the rest of the Sandsnakes be background characters or nothing at all. So stupid but they had to have boobs so, it made sense to them I guess.