[Book Spoilers] King Tommen and the Faith Militant

[NIWhatley]

This question is based PURELY on what the show has shown us re: King Tommen and the Faith Militant.

The book does a great job of explaining how powerful the Faith Militant is, why King Tommen doesn't act (he's a little boy), etc. However, for the show plot line alone, my friend and I had a bit of a debate as to why King Tommen, who is 15, has done nothing to rescue Queen Margaery. The Faith Militant on the show does not appear to be very large and does not have weapons that could match the sword of the City Watch.

So why hasn't Tommen just ordered the City Watch to take her back? My friend posits that Tommen just doesn't have the guts and doesn't want bloodshed. I believe there is something more, as Tommen said in this last episode, "There's nothing I can do." As if he doesn't have the power to tell the City Watch to release Queen Margaery? Why does he think he's powerless to fix this situation? I think there are some severe plot holes, and I can't just chalk it up to "Tommen doesn't have the guts to do it." Am I/Are we missing something? Did the show writers fail to explain this? Or is it really just Tommen is too chicken to use the City Watch to release Margaery and Loras?

Thank you in advance for anyone's intake or explanation.

[Guess who's back]

Cercei told him that Faith will kill the prisoners if he attacks, so obviously Tommen is afraid to attack. And he also lacks any good advisers as Tywin, Varys, LF are no longer part of the small council.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

The show is leading you to believe two things. First, Tommen is too meek to use his power, as he displayed on the steps of the sept. He's also on the receiving end of bad advice (Cersei) to know how to react properly. Episode 7 shows him finally lashing out but it's mostly idle. He should be yelling at the Sparrows, not his mother. Cersei is also scaring him into thinking Marg will be killed if he takes up arms against them, which would defeat the purpose.

So the problem is two-fold; Tommen has no courage and is easily manipulated. The boy didn't have much of a father figure and his mother coddled him, so it's not really hard to believe, especially when you consider he was likely bullied by his brother.

[Lord Lannister]

I would assume it's because if he moves against them Margaery will probably be the first to die.

[Direwight]

Well, they're all locked up in the sept and they'd have to cut through hundreds of sparrows to get at them, so I don't have a problem with him feeling like he can't do anything in that situation.

What doesn't make sense to me is how he specifically prevented the kingsguard from preventing them from taking Margaery in the first place, and then later complains about not being able to do anything. If he'd have believed the charges and let her be taken because of that then fine, but clearly that wasn't the case after all. He lets her be taken, goes back home, and then complains that she's a prisoner and he can't do anything about it. Doesn't make much sense if you ask me.

[A Highborn Maid]

So the problem is two-fold; Tommen has no courage and is easily manipulated. The boy didn't have much of a father figure and his mother coddled him, so it's not really hard to believe, especially when you consider he was likely bullied by his brother.

I find it problematic that you link lacking a father figure and 'mommy coddling' with weakness of character. Any empirical research to back up your wild psychological claims?

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I find it problematic that you link lacking a father figure and 'mommy coddling' with weakness of character. Any empirical research to back up your wild psychological claims?

Are you asking me to provide you with evidence that suggests that having an absent parent and being sheltered is bad for your personal development? We're calling this a wild claim?

[NIWhatley]

Cercei told him that Faith will kill the prisoners if he attacks, so obviously Tommen is afraid to attack. And he also lacks any good advisers as Tywin, Varys, LF are no longer part of the small council.

I guess we both missed this? I figured this might be the case, but I failed to pay attention and catch Cersei telling Tommen. That makes a lot more sense.

[mirthula]

Tommen is just simply touched in the head. In the GOT universe boys younger than him have had power and showed more guts. In the show we got to see Bran and Rickon actually having a personality. Tommen is just a product of bad upbringing combined with some personality deficits in capable of his station.

[A Highborn Maid]

Are you asking me to provide you with evidence that suggests that having an absent parent and being sheltered is bad for your personal development? We're calling this a wild claim?

I think you're exaggerating it in Tommen's context. He's a privileged King who's probably psychologically healthier than 90% of Westeros, from a modern perspective anyway. Book Cersei was pretty firm with Tommen, and there's no evidence in the show that she 'coddles' him in an unhealthy way. I fail to see how Roberts poor parenting skills contributes towards his weakness, especially after the monster that was Joffrey Baratheon. Could it be possible he's simply weak because he's weak? For whatever reason weak people are what they are? Absent father = weakness is not an equation that makes sense to me.

Anyway, look at Robyn Aryn. He is breast-fed as a child soon heading into puberty who is given virtually no boundaries. Obviously has an unstable parent who has isolated and arguably abused him. Can you imagine Robyn in Tommen's place? I'm betting he'd show none of the weakness of Tommen, though he'd undoubtedly do something unstable.

[Pies are coming]

I think you're exaggerating it in Tommen's context. He's a privileged King who's probably psychologically healthier than 90% of Westeros, from a modern perspective anyway. Book Cersei was pretty firm with Tommen, and there's no evidence in the show that she 'coddles' him in an unhealthy way. I fail to see how Roberts poor parenting skills contributes towards his weakness, especially after the monster that was Joffrey Baratheon. Could it be possible he's simply weak because he's weak? For whatever reason weak people are what they are? Absent father = weakness is not an equation that makes sense to me.

Anyway, look at Robyn Aryn. He is breast-fed as a child soon heading into puberty who is given virtually no boundaries. Obviously has an unstable parent who has isolated and arguably abused him. Can you imagine Robyn in Tommen's place? I'm betting he'd show none of the weakness of Tommen, though he'd undoubtedly do something unstable.

Robin would have the High Sparrow killed on the spot

[Denam_Pavel]

This weeks writer has a bit more sense to him, presenting it as a hostage situation. Last weeks writer had Tommen not doing anything while Margeary as in the room with him ad his armed, armoured guards. Blame him.

[The Ghost of Rhaegar]

This weeks writer has a bit more sense to him, presenting it as a hostage situation. Last weeks writer had Tommen not doing anything while Margeary as in the room with him ad his armed, armoured guards. Blame him.

Yeah. I was yelling at the screen at that moment. That was the moment to stop it all. :)

[Gian Snow]

Robin would have the High Sparrow killed on the spot

LOL He would've absolutely made him fly.

[ummester]

I think show Tommen could be 14, possibly only 13 - so he is still pretty much a boy. He's also caught between 2 manipulative bitches, that he thinks are nice and doesn't want to hurt either. He probably thinks the Faith has a certain right to conduct their religious trials.

And, finally, he may be concerned that he is actually the product of incest - that's what caused him to turn away the first time. If he is aware that it's a possibility, he may either feel bad about it or think that it represents a reason the Faith could trial him for. Most importantly, what if he can see the reality of what the High Sparrow said around him - what if he is aware that Westeros is becoming desperate and that the many are arriving at a stage where they don't fear the few?

[Saltire Knight]

He's a frightened young boy who doesn't know what to do and so he does nothing.

[igrewupinKL]

maybe he could just i dunno, sign a royal decree disarming the faith

[dbunting]

He is simply not ready to make his own decisions and he seemingly has had very little combat training of his own.

The city watch and or Lannister army could easily take her back by force. The problem is that Tommen doesn't think militarily and has no advisors at all.

The Faith would not kill Maergery, they would fight to the death to keep her but would not execute someone without a trial, they are supposed to be the ones stopping that kind of thing, not doing it themselves.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

This question is based PURELY on what the show has shown us re: King Tommen and the Faith Militant.

The book does a great job of explaining how powerful the Faith Militant is, why King Tommen doesn't act (he's a little boy), etc. However, for the show plot line alone, my friend and I had a bit of a debate as to why King Tommen, who is 15, has done nothing to rescue Queen Margaery. The Faith Militant on the show does not appear to be very large and does not have weapons that could match the sword of the City Watch.

So why hasn't Tommen just ordered the City Watch to take her back? My friend posits that Tommen just doesn't have the guts and doesn't want bloodshed. I believe there is something more, as Tommen said in this last episode, "There's nothing I can do." As if he doesn't have the power to tell the City Watch to release Queen Margaery? Why does he think he's powerless to fix this situation? I think there are some severe plot holes, and I can't just chalk it up to "Tommen doesn't have the guts to do it." Am I/Are we missing something?

Nope, that's it. He's just weak and indecisive. Tywin's lesson ("listen to your advisers") apparently stuck, and hard. His dialogues seemed to consist mainly of repeating to Margaery what Cersei said, and repeating to Cersei what Margaery said. When Margaery was arrested, Cersei was the only one to whisper into his ear, so of course he wouldn't do anything to aid his wife.

Now, when both queens are under lock and key, I expect him to limit himself to breathing and sometimes eating, unless some new puppeteer starts telling Tommen what he's supposed to think.

[Sultan of Westeros]

Tommen is a toad, i am missing Joffrey.