Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

ErasmusF

Soooo... the whole Sansa marriage thing

Recommended Posts

Sansa and Ramsay aren't really married, right? She is still married to Tyrion, despite the fact that they haven't consummated the marriage, the HS hasn't declared it void.



So basically, Littlefinger's plan was to have her "married" to Ramsay, tell the Throne that he is headed to deal with them, pick off the winner of the Stannis/Bolton conflict, then convince the HS and Iron Throne (whomever sits on it) to void her marriage to Tyrion, declare her never validly married to Ramsay, and then marry her to solidify his hold on the North.



If that is his plan it's a good one.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, in show logic she was never married because she never lost her virginity. No one else seems to have batted an eyelid about the validity of the marriage. As Roose said, he needs her name, why go along with it if he thought it wouldn't stand up? Roose is no fool.



I do agree that his plan is to let Stannis and the Boltons beat each other to death then send in the fresh Vale army to clean up. Then call on the promise Cersei made to make him warden of the North, then probably marrry the widowed Sansa himself.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happens in the North, stays in the North.


What happens in King's Landing, stays in King's Landing



The show got around the red tape that the books cannot by simply saying, she is still a virgin. Everyone in the Royal court knew that Tyrion had not


consummated the marriage so it is/was known.



Sansa is now Lady Bolton The Lesser, behind Lady Walda Bolton.



Yuck. :ack:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one knows LF plan.

He lies time after time.

Btw if Boltons win, stannis never reaches winterfell Then what? Ramsey will not just give her to LF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am thinking that stannis is going to win, but he won't reach winterfell. Just because mel sees it didn't mean it's going to happen.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Btw if Boltons win, stannis never reaches winterfell Then what? Ramsey will not just give her to LF

No, LF will likely get the Knights of the Vale to overrun the decimated Bolton army with promises of Northern lands and Bolton booty. That's what he told Cersei he was going to do, and I don't think he was lying about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happens in the North, stays in the North.

What happens in King's Landing, stays in King's Landing

The show got around the red tape that the books cannot by simply saying, she is still a virgin. Everyone in the Royal court knew that Tyrion had not

consummated the marriage so it is/was known.

Sansa is now Lady Bolton The Lesser, behind Lady Walda Bolton.

Yuck. :ack:

Well that's what I mean, there is still wiggle room for him in KL to claim the marriage to Ramsay wasn't valid. I don't think he'll have much of a problem getting Northerners to agree that she is still a Stark and not a Bolton... many of them might think to line up to wed her. In classic LF style he pulls the rug out from under them and says "well, maybe I should marry her and extend the lands of the North all the way to Harrenhall." Hard to argue with that if you're a Northerner, even if you feel like you got ripped off in the marriage lottery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, LF will likely get the Knights of the Vale to overrun the decimated Bolton army with promises of Northern lands and Bolton booty. That's what he told Cersei he was going to do, and I don't think he was lying about that.

Yeah, but now that she's in jail and in no position to name him Warden of the North, I doubt he'll see any reason in continuing to help her. Possibly he would help Stannis, though Stannis knows how much of a rat he is, I doubt that would work either. Would be nice to see Yohn come to Sansa's aid with the Vale army, going behind Petyr's back or maybe becoming the regent-ruler of the Vale after Petyr dies or gets killed by someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, LF will likely get the Knights of the Vale to overrun the decimated Bolton army with promises of Northern lands and Bolton booty. That's what he told Cersei he was going to do, and I don't think he was lying about that.

As mentioned somewhere else on the forums, that would mean that the knights of the vale would have to march to winterfell through the dead of winter. In the books, it took stannis about an incredibly long time to march 100 miles to reach winterfell. If I remember corectly it took him about 40+ days.

He would have had to sent them in that direction a very long time ago. Also, how would you bring enough supplies to maintain an army on the march through a northern winter?

Just my two cents...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sansa and Ramsay aren't really married, right? She is still married to Tyrion, despite the fact that they haven't consummated the marriage, the HS hasn't declared it void.

So basically, Littlefinger's plan was to have her "married" to Ramsay, tell the Throne that he is headed to deal with them, pick off the winner of the Stannis/Bolton conflict, then convince the HS and Iron Throne (whomever sits on it) to void her marriage to Tyrion, declare her never validly married to Ramsay, and then marry her to solidify his hold on the North.

If that is his plan it's a good one.

There's no getting around it - Roose Bolton isn't stupid, so unless he's had a lobotomy, a consummated marriage between Ramsay and Sansa is legit.

The problems with the plan are manifold, with Sansa agreeing to go along with it being one and LF's lack of intelligence on Ramsay being another, and Roose's trust in LF being possibly the most egregious of all. But Cersei's involvement takes the cake.

1. It is agreed upon by Roose and LF that Cersei lacks the strength to send an army North. Therefore Roose can marry Ramsay to Sansa without reprisal. However, it also means that Cersei can't send an army North if LF takes over either, so why bother asking her? He also would have to have had a contingency plan if she had said no, which we don't see.

2. Cersei immediately believes LF when he explains Sansa's involvement with the Boltons. She does not ask for evidence and gives up the Bolton's on no more than LF's word. Why Sansa actually needed to marry Ramsay (if the point was to drive a wedge between them and Cersei) is unclear. Evidence of a betrothal would seemingly have accomplished the same.

3.As revealed in this episode, LF is helping Ollenna Tyrell take down Cersei. But if Cersei is imprisoned as a direct result of his machinations, he didn't need to treat with her at all. She couldn't send troops North in all her power - she definitely won't whilst in a jail cell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Littlefinger's show logic... all I can guess is he's putting a finger in every pot so he's sure to get a meal no matter what happens and who wins.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Littlefinger's show logic... all I can guess is he's putting a finger in every pot so he's sure to get a meal no matter what happens and who wins.

Well, unless it's Stannis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then his puppe- I mean Sansa, is fully in charge of the North in her own right.

Not exactly. Stannis is not likely to look favorably on "Lady Bolton" is he? Maybe he needs her claim, but that in no way translates to either her or LF having any control whatsoever over the North.

Also, the total lack of Northern Lords shown on screen really makes me doubt if Stannis needs a Stark after all. The Bolton's were skinning Lords with impunity prior to Ramsay's wedding with Sansa, so why a more moderate Stannis would need Sansa to control the North is a mystery to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they'll go with the argument they went in the show - Tommen's a bastard, Ramsay's bastard, nothing that happened during their rule matters. Roose's a traitor, so Sansa will most likely never be called or take the Bolton name. The show doesn't really care about this type of logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they'll go with the argument they went in the show - Tommen's a bastard, Ramsay's bastard, nothing that happened during their rule matters. Roose's a traitor, so Sansa will most likely never be called or take the Bolton name. The show doesn't really care about this type of logic.

It does depend on the context though. In the event that Sansa outlives Ramsay, their marriage won't matter from a legal perspective - even in Westeros the old adage "til death do us part" holds true. How people react to the widowed Lady Bolton is a different story altogether. Unlike in the books with Jeyne, it's not as if Sansa was forced down the aisle. Without a plan to kill off the Boltons, Sansa being saved from her own marriage by another faction potentially weakens her position considerably, especially with how she is perceived in the North.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does depend on the context though. In the event that Sansa outlives Ramsay, their marriage won't matter from a legal perspective - even in Westeros the old adage "til death do us part" holds true. How people react to the widowed Lady Bolton is a different story altogether. Unlike in the books with Jeyne, it's not as if Sansa was forced down the aisle. Without a plan to kill off the Boltons, Sansa being saved from her own marriage by another faction potentially weakens her position considerably, especially with how she is perceived in the North.

In a logical show, I'd agree with you, but this is Game of Thrones. LF thinks nobody will care, and even the Old Lady and the others think the fact she's marrying Ramsay doesn't matter. I think if needed for plot, they'll just gloss over it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you want logic...how did The Lannister kids Myrcella & Tommen grow ten years while Gilly's baby is still a baby! lol!

Talk about cold preserving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Expediency in regards to the marriage to the Imp so they could get wedding and rape scene done asap in order to bring Theon out of his funk.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...