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Finale Title, Details Released

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I want to believe. I really do. But I can't. I could see it happening and everything, and I can see why people think it might, but it seems too good to be true.

Besides simple cynicism, which I am well aware does not constitute a solid argument, here are a few other reasons I doubt:

- As someone else has said, show fans won't get it. They'll say it's a shark jump and want D&D's head.

- Isn't Michelle Fairley pretty busy these days with other ventures? I thought she had a show called Resurrected or something similar.

- The finale's going to be packed already: "For the watch"**, the fighting pits/Dany's flight, Cersei's walk, Sansa/Brienne/Theon, Stannis's arrival at Winterfell, whatever the ass is happening at Dorne, and a partridge in a pair tree.

- There's been no lead-up. The show has felt very "We're moving on from that" since the Red Wedding. LSH showing up would be very "out of the blue".

- I fail to see how they're going to explain away a woman having been dead for so long without being a pile of bones at this point. Of course, one could argue they'll simply write it like she's been up and walking around for quite some time now, but in that case, the lack of any mention of her at all becomes an even more glaring problem, doesn't it?

**if it even happens, but I'm not betting any money on that either, because, like LSH, I want it to happen, therefore I doubt it will. For all I know, Jon being "challenged" could be Jon taking a piss next to Tormund, spotting his legendary member, and crying himself to sleep that night in shame. It would fit D&D's current theme of cock jokes, wouldn't it?

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I agree there should have been a bone thrown to the build up if they're going to introduce her. Pod & Brienne when they were still back in the Riverlands passing a Frey corpse dangling from a tree with salt stuffed in its mouth or some tavern local mentioning the Brotherhood having a female leader would have probably been enough.



But bear in mind, they changed the rules by going public with the Sansa/Ramsay marriage. Half of Westeros presumably now knows about that union, Brotherhood included, so why would they stay south and not beeline for Winterfell? Why would Stoneheart mess about with Frey minnows in the Riverlands and not now go directly home to save her girl from the sharks who massacred her & Robb?



Logic therefore dictates that if any (late in the day, admittedly) build up happens it will now happen in the north, and in the space of the next three episodes.There is time. Just. It's not beyond the realms of possibility (and especially in the light of the delayed Euron appearance) that in the long run, D&D wanted to surpise book readers with a character presumed cut, as much as non readers not anticipating her at all. Heavier foreshadowing earlier in the season removes that possibility.



There's also an outside chance, albeit it a slim one, that just as the show this year started with a flashback to set the stage for Cersei's downfall, it will end with one on Arya/Nymeria (via blind Arya in the HOB&W) setting the stage for Catelyn's rise.



Still a book scene, as Benioff said.



Accusations of Deus Ex Machina require that the laws of an established universe be broken, after all, and GOT: the show has already established Red God resurrection, under a certain set of circumstances, to be possible.



Failing that, then IF she shows up ~ "boo!" ~ final shot, schlock horror style, without that contextual info seguing in, you only really need Thoros stood beside her at this point, with or without dialogue, for the unsullied to do the math.




.


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I don't get why people are saying that there was zero mentioning of Cat since the Red Wedding. That is simply not true. Catelyn was mentioned in almost every episode (or at least in 50% of the episodes) since the premiere of season 4. They even mentioned her corpse being thrown into the river. Brienne is constantly talking about her oath to Lady Catelyn. Sansa alone is constantly saying "my mother is dead". She even spoke to Myranda about this. And concerning the BWB... they even had Tyrion refer to Thoros of Myr this season. Sure, this alone does not mean we'll have LSH but saying that the producers forgot about Catelyn and the BWB is exaggerated.


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I'm not going to try and claim they've done enough LSH foreshadowing so far this season - they really haven't.



But it's worth mentioning that we've seen Qyburn re-animating a corpse not very long ago. And with all the wight action that'll happen at Hardhome this week... that'll make it considerably harder for people to say her resurrection is jumping the shark.



And as Damorian said above, it's already an established part of the universe. All they have to do is mention Beric Dondarrion once in the next couple of episodes, and the memory of the Guy Who Won't Stay Dead will immediately come back.



And Thoros (who has been mentioned this season) standing next to her... it's possible.


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- Isn't Michelle Fairley pretty busy these days with other ventures? I thought she had a show called Resurrected or something similar.

resurrection was cancelled.

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resurrection was cancelled.

Hopefully this resurrection will be cancelled too.

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Serious troll job by them if it isn't LSH. Especially with the most obvious title of "Winter" being passed up.



I don't see it happening though, nor am I sure it would even work. It's been so long since she died and there's been no reference to the RIverlands at all, no mention of hangings, Frey's - Remember the talk of the Brotherhood long before they showed up. Although they've ignored the Iron Islands too yet it seems finally we'll actually get something there. I always wondered how viewers would accept Zombie Cat anyways, it's pretty boom or bust. The time to do it was the S4 Finale though, without a doubt. I think now it would feel forced, especially with some viewers already becoming a little jaded with the show. It would explain the "break the internet" comment more than anything else, but Jon's death would easily suffice from show viewers perspectives.



As for the rest of the episode. I like that "Stannis Marches" hinting the battle will wait until S6, I couldn't handle that shit being spoiled, especially as it will probably be an invented outcome of LF winning, what with his magic horses.



I don't think he'll burn Shireeen and I hope the tough decision will relate to what he does with Mel/Selyse after they try doing just that. Stannis does die, I'm sure of it, but I want to read it before watching it, so for 3 episodes just stay the fuck away Brienne.



Dany being surrounded by strangers is interesting. I get that Tyrion is one, but who are the others? I'll forgive all if Victarion landed at Mereen. Fuck the impossible logic behind it. Zero chance I'm afraid.



Walk of Shame and "For the Olly" will ensure it's a great episode regardless.

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Dany being surrounded by strangers is interesting. I get that Tyrion is one, but who are the others? I'll forgive all if Victarion landed at Mereen. Fuck the impossible logic behind it. Zero chance I'm afraid.

LOL the strangers are obviously the Dothraki.

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I thought Lady Stoneheart was referred as Mother Merciless, not Mercy? (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Catelyn_Tully , in the aliases list) And the Mother Mercy in some appendix has been a typo? Two very different things after all, having mercy or being merciless so I don't see the title relating to LS at all. Especially since the HS already mentioned the "mother's mercy" to Cersei, it's clearly linked to that and Cersei's walk.



But who knows, it'd be a great shocker in the episode though I do think it would quite "spoil" Jon's fate being so close to it and take away too much of the shock value from that.


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Pros:

It will break the Internet, as they have said the last episode will.

Cons:

There has been zero foreshadowing or even mention of Cat, Freys or the Riverlands this entire year, so it would be very strange timing and sort of illogical.

well the best way to do Stoneheart is completely out of the blue without warning

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I don't get why people are saying that there was zero mentioning of Cat since the Red Wedding. That is simply not true. Catelyn was mentioned in almost every episode (or at least in 50% of the episodes) since the premiere of season 4. They even mentioned her corpse being thrown into the river. Brienne is constantly talking about her oath to Lady Catelyn. Sansa alone is constantly saying "my mother is dead". She even spoke to Myranda about this. And concerning the BWB... they even had Tyrion refer to Thoros of Myr this season. Sure, this alone does not mean we'll have LSH but saying that the producers forgot about Catelyn and the BWB is exaggerated.

a detail they didn't have to include if they weren't doing Stoneheart BTW

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You guys could be right. I'm not ruling it out entirely, and like I said, I'd be thrilled if it happened because I love LSH. On my first read, just when I thought nothing would surprise me, that happened, and I couldn't believe it. It'd be pretty gosh darned bitchin' if the Unsullied could experience that same thrill. But I just don't think mentioning Cat as dead and foreshadowing her revival, especially when the only logical path to take would be having her alive for what would at the very least be months now in GOT time, are the same thing. It'd feel sort of dumb at this point if they came out and said "Oh and btw Cat's been alive for awhile, just fyi." somehow, with no narrative at all regarding her thus far. Don't get me wrong; I'd probably still be happy about it, but it wouldn't sit well with critics.



From a narrative standpoint, when you're doing something like this, you create a hole in the story for this character to fill by doing something. GRRM did it brilliantly when he wrote about hanging men everywhere on the road and this mysterious new leader of the BWB, after Arya's warg dream. If you're like me, you read it and thought to yourself "Who's doing that? What's going on there?" and you wanted to hope beyond hope that somehow that corpse Nymeria drudged up could somehow be alive, but you thought ". . . No way." The introduction of LSH is what made her work. Without that, it just doesn't have the same impact, does it? Characters are built on their actions. Having a character's actions in front of us before we see the character him/herself vastly changes how we see them once we "meet" them, because first impressions have already been made, and boy, did LSH leave some lasting first impressions.



But hey, knowing D&D, they just won't give a shit about any of this. They have a certain way of "neutering" things that would otherwise be powerful. Even Aemon's death felt that way to me. So, before you say it, I'll say it for you: What I've said here isn't necessarily proof they won't bring her back. Hell, I don't think it's fully possible to provide that sort of proof, outside of the interviews where they say she won't be appearing, and those mean precisely jack and shit. Besides ASoIaF, I also love Doctor Who, and a certain Mr. Moffat has taught me never, ever to believe interviews with showrunners. They're all lying bastards. It's in the job description. But, I digress. To get to the point: I can't say for sure if D&D have put LSH in the finale with any real intellectual honesty - but what I can tell you is why they would be smart not to, from objective, non-fangirl stance.


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I don't know that foreshadowing is too big a priority for the D boys. Maybe they figure that's what the "previously on" segment's for.



If we get anything on there involving Cat or the Red Wedding before ep. 10, fasten your seatbelts. Giving the episode that title and not doing LSH is just massive trollability and a new high for D&D pettiness.


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GRRM did it brilliantly when he wrote about hanging men everywhere on the road and this mysterious new leader of the BWB, after Arya's warg dream. If you're like me, you read it and thought to yourself "Who's doing that? What's going on there?" and you wanted to hope beyond hope that somehow that corpse Nymeria drudged up could somehow be alive.

I don't think the hanging of Freys or a new BWB leader was mentioned till AFFC. All we had for hints in ASOS were the High Heart witch's musings and the Nymeria thing.

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My opinion is don't get your hopes up. I got burned big time last season by being so convinced it was happening only for it not to. It is cruel of them to troll us about it (maybe if Lena Headey didn't pull what she did last season I'd feel differently). They could have so easily picked another title like "For the Watch" that wasn't a reference to LSH. I think if there was ever a time to do it, it was last season. I thought there was even the possibility they could do it mid-way through this season to help alleviate a slow storyline. At this point? I think things are too crowded to fit it in, and there's been no build up to it. With all the build up to the greyscale thing, and all the build up with Olly (who many are speculating will be involved in the For the Watch scene) there's been no build up to a LSH appearance. If you go into the finale expecting it, you'll be disappointed no matter what happens. Don't go in with that mentality.


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Honestly, I will be thrilled if D+D roll out LSH because there hasn't been major foreshadowing of her return this season. All of the foreshadowing this season has been so heavy handed it's almost painful.



The Ides of Olly is so glaringly obvious, even the Unsullied can smell that stink a mile away. The sacrifice of Shrieen and/or Stannis, Theon's redemption, Brienne's Winterfell rescue, Samwell's departure, Grayscale, etc....



If D+D decided to suddenly bring in LSH at the very last moment of the season, I think it would be a bit of redemption for choppy season. Everything else they've done this season is so hamfisted that it would be a gift to actually get a moment that comes completely out of left field. Of course I am prepared for the internet to explode in an "OMG Jon Snow!!!" avalanche, but it would be a really smart move by D+D to give us something that they haven't already beat us over the head with.


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The Ides of Olly is so glaringly obvious, even the Unsullied can smell that stink a mile away. The sacrifice of Shrieen and/or Stannis, Theon's redemption, Brienne's Winterfell rescue, Samwell's departure, Grayscale, etc....

Literally none of the show watchers I know have mentioned any of these happening.

The closest was that something bad was going to happen to shireen which hasn't even happened.

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Dunno.... but I hate to be teased or tricked if this is not the case.



Merciless is the opposite of mercy. Does anyone recall if the last episode name has ever been withheld before.



The IMDB with hooded women was supposed to be a buggaboo. More so if some dope penciled in Benjen in the same manner.



This nonsense being published all over the place....so if it ain't true D+D should squash this right away. I have wondered why they refused to answer LSH question at comic con if it was to be cut. I think they try to escape riot



Big mistake leaving her out. Cat's story was important. As Jaime reedems charater, LSH becomes more evil. Was thinking one of the stark kids would have to put her out of misery somewhere down the line


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