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Westeros

Finale Title, Details Released

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If you look at it, D&D wanted to surprise everyone with the Red Wedding, right? What if they want to surprise everyone again and since LSH appearing 'is known', it wouldn't be a big surprise(for the book readers?). So maybe they just wanted to wait so even the book readers would get surprised aswell. Almst all book readers right now have NO HOPE of LSH appearing which makes sense for her to appear right now. Shock Value.


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Would be a convincing argument if George himself hadn't just listed her among his five favourite characters that didn't make the show:

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/06/01/george-r-r-martins-five-favorite-missing-characters/

GRRM himself would therefore have to be part of this conspiracy in trolling his own readership. Which I very much doubt.

Kind of coincidental that list being released on the same day as the season finale title, the title that directly references the character of Stoneheart.

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Strangers surrounding Dany are the Son of harpy. it is the scene in the trailer

But the pit scene is happening in episode 9. It would be odd for them to split it over two episodes.

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Mother of Mountains

Kind of coincidental that list being released on the same day as the season finale title, the title that directly references the character of Stoneheart.

What do you conclude from that, that GRRM is playing things down so the book readers get a surprise?

God, I hope so but seems pretty remote to me really.

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I saw something online the other day showing a script that had LSH as a character for the final episode. I assumed is was a hoax. I would love for her to come back. Since she has not had a major role yet in the books, maybe D&D knew to keep her out until next season? In the books she really hasn't done anything yet if you think about it. But in Winds of Winter she obviously has some key role to play.



Also, if she is not part of the show, why would they even bother to show the healing abilities of Dondarion? Why even show he can come back from the dead? Would have been just as good a fight with the Hound if he simply died since he has not been in the show since.



Could be the same reason that they showed the previously scene with Jeor giving Jon the Valaryian sword and now it finally comes into play.


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What do you conclude from that, that GRRM is playing things down so the book readers get a surprise?

God, I hope so but seems pretty remote to me really.

I don't believe very much that's related to the shows marketing happens accidentally.

They left the finale title release to the very last minute, a title that carrying on with the shows habit of using double meaning might reference the walk of shame, could conceivably be some reference to Dany but is very definitely a pun on one of Stonehearts titles and on the same day there's an interview with Martin in which he says 'Boo hoo they cut all these characters'.

Coincidence, no way.

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Another idea.



Could it mean something for Sansa? Maybe she finds out she's pregnant and decides to keep the baby or something? Hence "Mother's Mercy"?


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"Promise me Ned".

Mother's mercy.

That's all.

+1 on this :thumbsup:

Also maybe a refrence to Fat Walda???

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You know what would be a pretty amazing introduction for LSH? If Ramsey came staggering back into Winterfell in Episode 10, shaken, and said that before he even got to Stannis, his 20 man strike force was lost on the march; nothing seemed to be wrong, but every time they stopped for a rest, a few more men were missing. They were picked off in ones and twos, before Ramsey finally ran back to Winterfell. Cue a scene with a hanging tree, a quivering Bolton armsman with a noose around his neck, and a broken voice giving a lecture about justice. LSH walks into frame, flanked by BWB members. Edit to add: Heck, the pick offs could also happen on Ramsey's way back to Winterfell after fighting with Stannis.



I think there can still be a place for LSH if the writers want to make one. Per the casting sheets, next season appears to go back into books 4 and 5 to pick up the Greyjoy storyline, why not also pick up the Riverlands? Honestly, what is Jamie going to do next season, hang out in Dorne? I give him maybe three episodes next year, before Jamie is called back to Westeros for some reason. His uncle Keven's death, or Tommen's death (prophecy), or maybe even Myrcella will die (prophecy) , and Jamie has to bring her body home. And at that point, Jamie would be free to wander the Riverlands and bump into LSH.



My only concern with bringing LSH back in the finale is that if it happens in the same episode that Jon is apparently stabbed to death, then absolutely NO ONE will think he's really out of the story.


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I was in the middle of writing this as fangirl000's post appeared and I agree!


I just wanted to add that I have been reading/thinking about "how would you like to see Ramsey die?" wondering what glorious way that they could do him in, and the only thing I can think would be awesome would be LSH. Say Theon and Sansa escape Winterfell, Ramsey goes after them with dogs and tries his usual hunt and kill routine, but as they are out in the forest his party gets smaller and smaller. Could even start with a run through a forest where they see "Hanging Freys"; establishing that something is out there ... Sansa gets to Brienne and Pod (separating from Theon in the run)... Ramsey finds Theon, he gives him his "you should not have disobeyed me " look, and boom...LHS finishes them off. Unfortunatly, its the end for Reek/Theon, but I think his story might be done on the show.



Or, Theon stays behind and bakes a nice big fat pie and serves it to Roose.



That would be glorious, and it would not necessarliy be "bringing back the LSH plot" but using the character in one epi to get the revenge the north certainly needs.


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I have to add that as a writer and theatrical director, I get into weekly debates with friends over what the showrunners are doing ( I love the show, and can see why so many choices have been made). I have to say that the biggest clue that we have that we might see LHS was the Battle at Hardhome. Why?



The TV audience has not been really subject to the magical parts of the story yet. In a lighthearted debate last week I brought up that the ending of last season (with the Children of the Forest) was like bringing Harry Potter into "The Sopranos". As book readers we all know how important the magic is in the story, but the TV viewers have had most of the magic removed. The Battle at Hardhome showed the TV viewers that "oh gosh there is badass magic and there is plenty of it". It will not be too hard now to accept LSH as an undead force of revenge. I think that it was all about introducing magic back into the tv plot...we dont even need to see the exposition of the BWB now, just a snowstorm and LSH (we know the dead can rise.)


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Kind of coincidental that list being released on the same day as the season finale title, the title that directly references the character of Stoneheart.

"directly references"?!? Really?

There are plenty of mothers that may play a significant role in the finale. Dany, Cersei, Selyse... Not to mention the aspect of the Seven, in a season that's marked for the rise of the Faith.

This is not a "direct reference". More like an oblique, meandering, twisted connection that with some effort can be interpreted as a reference.

As I see it, it'd be closer to say that the title "can be interpreted

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"directly references"?!? Really?

There are plenty of mothers that may play a significant role in the finale. Dany, Cersei, Selyse... Not to mention the aspect of the Seven, in a season that's marked for the rise of the Faith.

This is not a "direct reference". More like an oblique, meandering, twisted connection that with some effort can be interpreted as a reference.

As I see it, it'd be closer to say that the title "can be interpreted

Lady Stoneheart is specifically called Mother Mercy in AFfC.

LADY STONEHEART, a hooded woman, sometimes called MOTHER MERCY, THE SILENT SISTER, and THE HANGWOMAN,

It's about as obvious a reference as you could wish for without actually calling the episode Heart of Stone or something.

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I think it IS a direct reference -- to Cersei's storyline. The High Sparrow invoked those exact words to Cersei in Episode 7. Could also refer indirectly to Dany, Selyse/Shireen, or any number of mothers, or the concept of mercy in general.



Would love to get LSH, but I'm very doubtful.


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What if Selyse of Shireen die in 5x09 and Melisandre tries to resurrect them like she saw Thoros doing so back in season 3 but fails because she doesn't have that kind of power. Then the audience would be reminded of the fact that there was a red priest with this kind of power and wouldn't be too shocked to see the BWB with LSH in 5x10. Well, one can still dream...


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Lady Stoneheart is specifically called Mother Mercy in AFfC.

It's about as obvious a reference as you could wish for without actually calling the episode Heart of Stone or something.

The books are full of references to the "mother's mercy". It's clearly a common expression in Westeros. Assuming it can only refer to Stonheart is wishful thinking.

The following quotes are all from the Cersei's storyline that's going to be adapted in this season's finale:

“There can be no penance without pain. No man should spare himself the scourge, as I told Ser Osney. I seldom feel so close to god as when I am being whipped for mine own wickedness, though my darkest sins are no wise near as black as his.”

“B-but,” she sputtered, “you preach the Mother’s mercy . . .”

She had threatened, but her threats had been received with stony faces and deaf ears. She had commanded, but her commands had been ignored. She had invoked the Mother’s mercy, appealing to the natural sympathy of one woman for another, but the three shriveled septas must have put their womanhood aside when they spoke their vows. She had tried charm, speaking to them gently, accepting each new outrage meekly.

Cersei rose slowly from her knees. “I bow to the wisdom of Your High Holiness,” she said, “but if I might beg for just one drop of the Mother’s mercy, I … it has been so long since I last saw my son, please …”

She was shaking like a leaf when they pulled her to her feet. “Please,” she said. “Mother have mercy. I confessed.”

“You did,” said Septa Moelle. “This is your atonement.”

This man is implacable, she realized once again. She gathered herself for a moment. “Mother have mercy on me, then. I have lain with men outside the bonds of marriage. I confess it.”

I think that it's a stretch to assume that the "direct reference" is to lady Stonheart when there are so many ocurrences of it in Cersei's story, and many ther storylines would fit as well.

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The books are full of references to the "mother's mercy". It's clearly a common expression in Westeros. Assuming it can only refer to Stonheart is wishful thinking.

The following quotes are all from the Cersei's storyline that's going to be adapted in this season's finale:

“There can be no penance without pain. No man should spare himself the scourge, as I told Ser Osney. I seldom feel so close to god as when I am being whipped for mine own wickedness, though my darkest sins are no wise near as black as his.”

“B-but,” she sputtered, “you preach the Mother’s mercy . . .”

She had threatened, but her threats had been received with stony faces and deaf ears. She had commanded, but her commands had been ignored. She had invoked the Mother’s mercy, appealing to the natural sympathy of one woman for another, but the three shriveled septas must have put their womanhood aside when they spoke their vows. She had tried charm, speaking to them gently, accepting each new outrage meekly.

Cersei rose slowly from her knees. “I bow to the wisdom of Your High Holiness,” she said, “but if I might beg for just one drop of the Mother’s mercy, I … it has been so long since I last saw my son, please …”

She was shaking like a leaf when they pulled her to her feet. “Please,” she said. “Mother have mercy. I confessed.”

“You did,” said Septa Moelle. “This is your atonement.”

This man is implacable, she realized once again. She gathered herself for a moment. “Mother have mercy on me, then. I have lain with men outside the bonds of marriage. I confess it.”

I think that it's a stretch to assume that the "direct reference" is to lady Stonheart when there are so many ocurrences of it in Cersei's story, and many ther storylines would fit as well.

It is abundantly clear that the title refers to Cersei's storyline. Nobody is arguing that. But GoT episode titles have a history of conveying multiple meanings and one possible meaning is LSH (although very unlikely).

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