OldGimletEye Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The show does seem from the Lannister point of view. It makes them more arguably the family to root for, especially because Carol loves her kids so much. If Tyrion doesn't ever do anything despicable (not ever counting Shae or Tywin for the show) then he has become the woobie. And that is a tragedy, because it makes a great character little more than "that cute little dwarf we love to root for."I fully jumped out of my suspension of belief with the Sansa Bolton story. Once GRRM counteracts that with the gift Alayne chapter, it's over. Plus the Sand Snakes are hard to explain to unsullied that they actually are interesting in the books, and believeable, not sexist caricatures.Well, the Lannisters are pretty arrogant. D & D seem to be pretty arrogant. A connection here? I dunno. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 True, the fact that Marg Boleyn is in a ridiculous hovel of a prison cell for telling a little white lie is brutally stupid, and that they have Loras on trial for being gay, when he isn't even in a position of power...also fairly stupid and I'm still not clear on why Cersei even did this since as she's running the country she could have killed the marriage herself or had Tommen send Loras away or 10000 other things. But, still fundamentally. In the show, they are factually guilty. In the books, though I know some people seem to think Marg could be guilty, I think she's 100% innocent...and that is the whole story. She got caught in her own trap: attempts to frame Marg for adultery and gets caught for her own adultery. The book story is just much better, it works better, it's more logical, more interesting, it's better on all counts except that it makes Carol look REALLY bad, so it's out in the show. That’s another thing... WHY do Marg and Carol have it in for each other? I mean, Marg is sexually manipulating Tommen, but why? What does she want? It’s not political power? Carol is in complete control politically, and she’s not even being fucking stupid and short sighted like Cersei is. Unless the writers need her to be: then she will rearm the Faith Taliban for literally no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karmarni Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Well, the Lannisters are pretty arrogant. D & D seem to be pretty arrogant. A connection here? I dunno. :dunno:Yes, I think so and one I realized when typing that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 That’s another thing... WHY do Marg and Carol have it in for each other? I mean, Marg is sexually manipulating Tommen, but why? What does she want? It’s not political power? Carol is in complete control politically, and she’s not even being fucking stupid and short sighted like Cersei is. Unless the writers need her to be: then she will rearm the Faith Taliban for literally no reason. I considered this a huge plot hole, but very people picked up on it. Cersei apparently got Tommen to sign off on rearming the Faith. But, Show Tommen is in love with Marg...so presumably, he would have consulted Marg about such a momentous decision. And Show Marg would have said, bad idea. But, none of this happened. Show Marg appears to have no motive beyond 'be the queen' despite that she's in her 30s, LOL, and little 16 year old book Marg was telling 8 year old Tommen he needed to attend the Small Council meetings and giving him other advice on how to be a good king. The fuck. So, instead of anything that makes sense we got this stupid ass mash up which makes no sense but has 'mean girls' 'cat fights' 'gays' 'religious meanies' and then somehow ends up with both women in jail--like the books, wink wink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybuilderton Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Her arming the faith for no reason actually fits with our suspicion they didn't read a feast for crows. Looked up a plot summary and realized it needed to happen.Also explains why they left out the valonqar line. Without reading the book it must make no sense to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1wD1oqXYss Perfect! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySoftheart Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I think if they do show some version of Melara taking a dive down the well, it will be presented in a way that more or less justifies Carol's actions. After all the whitewashing, I can't see them showing a nasty teen Cersei killing another kid. It'll be like Shae - Melara will pull a knife and Baby!Carol will act purely in self-defense, because the only Lannister sibling who just kills people without a good reason is Jaime (he's not a good guy, remember!! :P I mean, I actually agree that Jaime isn't a "good" guy but nor is he the monster that D&D make him out to be constantly. Meanwhile the actual monster - Ramsay - is made much less so on the show! Sigh!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Gods be good. That might have taken 2 or 3 set up episodes to do, and given Loras some screen time for being a warrior and not GAY. And shown a politician motivation that made sense, to prevent the Tyrells from gaining influence over Tommen. Geeze, that could have cut time for Missy and Grey Wind's romance! No. No. No. The audience is probably too stupid for that anyway, and it of course wouldn't remind them that religion=homophobia, which is bad. Religion also may cause you to brand your face. Loras? Who dat? Is that the gay dude, you know the one that's gay? Who has all that gay sex with other gay dudes? And was arrested by the Westeros branch of ISIS for being gay? That Loras? If the only defining trait you choose to give a character is his sexuality then of course you end up where we are now. Yes it makes no sense but D&D are caught in the trap that one really bad plot decision inevitably leads to another. Show Loras has no interest in politics, he doesn't care much about fighting wars, he doesn't want to join the Kingsguard, he's literally the gay dude, that's his alpha and omega. So yeah of course he'll be arrested for being gay what else is left for his character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySoftheart Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I watched all the Inside the Episodes until I stopped this season. In this one, Benioff (it's always Benioff) says why he made Jaime a kinslayer. Because we like him too much, basically. Then I quoted another upthread where he says why he made Jaime a rapist, same thing. And I also watched the Inside the Episode where Benioff said poor St. Tyrion, Sansa rejected him. After presenting the forced marriage through St. Tyrion's perspective, he talked about the episode from his perspective, too. And made her laugh and joke in the following episode. And made her honor him just before she was raped, in the rape story he gave her (she doesn't get a love story, but Gray Worm does). So I developed this theory where he's giving Jaime all of Tyrion's failings. And now, he's giving Cersei all of his strong points. Oh, and he doesn't get a love story, either. He's got to honor Cersei. I just want to *LIKE* this post a billion times over. I agree, on both counts - I cannot shake the feeling that the marriage to Ramsay is Sansa's "punishment" for not eagerly embracing her marriage to Tyrion, and I think they dropped the Jaime/Brienne stuff like a hot potato because how could he ever give up Cersei in all her awesomeness? Chiefly, I suspect they are taking Cersei's and Tyrion's self-evaluations completely at face value rather than realizing how unreliable these narrators are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 ~~~snip~~~ Chiefly, I suspect they are taking Cersei's and Tyrion's self-evaluations completely at face value rather than realizing how unreliable these narrators are. GRRM did say that Sansa is an unreliable narrator. So, that means for the D's, only Sansa is an unreliable narrator and the rest aren't. Oppsie, they got that one wrong too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbybuilderton Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Loras? Who dat? Is that the gay dude, you know the one that's gay? Who has all that gay sex with other gay dudes? And was arrested by the Westeros branch of ISIS for being gay? That Loras? If the only defining trait you choose to give a character is his sexuality then of course you end up where we are now. Yes it makes no sense but D&D are caught in the trap that one really bad plot decision inevitably leads to another. Show Loras has no interest in politics, he doesn't care much about fighting wars, he doesn't want to join the Kingsguard, he's literally the gay dude, that's his alpha and omega. So yeah of course he'll be arrested for being gay what else is left for his character? Not being arrested at all? Sidelining his character until his sister is arrested in order to give time to other stories? Idk, they're perfectly happy just ditching characters for long periods of time so I'm pretty sure they could have done something else. But unfortunately they needed to telegraph that religion=bad and that Cersei was making a mistake, so they needed to use a issue they know modern audiences would dislike the faith for. Because it's not like wondering if the high sparrow had sincere motives would have been an interesting story or anything. It's not like his imprisonment of cersei would have been a great moment if up until then we'd been questioning if he was legitimate. Nah they had to keep Loras in and have him arrested for being gay, otherwise they would miss out on a horrible, nonsensical plotline that is completely hamfisted--their favorite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Her arming the faith for no reason actually fits with our suspicion they didn't read a feast for crows. Looked up a plot summary and realized it needed to happen.Also explains why they left out the valonqar line. Without reading the book it must make no sense to them I suspect the show's been cut to ribbons. Maybe one day we'll get all the deleted scenes on Blu-Ray or a special directors cut or something. D&D decided they wanted to film two massive books in one ten episode season, because reasons. They also wanted to keep the Dorne storyline even though there is literally no point as Aegon and Jon Con have been deleted because bewbs. So we're left with lots of important plot points that are rushed with little visual or dialogue exposition and no apparent motivation for the characters. I'm not sure if scenes with Cersei and the HS were cut but I'm sure plenty of others were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 How they resolve the Dorne "plot" will be interesting. What happened to Jamie's jet pack? It took him all season to get to Dorne and he's still there. Are we going to get the fire and blood speech to the sand snakes, using Tryst and Myrcella? Will Bronn die? Is Jamie going to escape and then go where? Is he getting Cersei's letter? And then what's he going to do with it? We are running out of time for there to be any reason why he burns it. Carol of course would never send Larry a letter since she considers him a worthless fool. But the Ds like to hit those plot points, so they might shoehorn it in there even though it will be totally silly and illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 ~~~~snip~~~~ Is Jamie going to escape and then go where? Is he getting Cersei's letter? And then what's he going to do with it? We are running out of time for there to be any reason why he burns it. ~~~snap~~~ Larry will open the letter, and give one of his slow motion puppy dog looks as he reads it. Tears will roll down his face, he'll carefully fold the letter and place it near his heart, and immediately leave for KL, to save Carol. Perhaps Doran will lend him a jetpack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 The Fire and Blood speech is only cool because you know Doran wants a Targaryen. That's why he sent his son to Dany. Now, what can he do? Send Trystane? His only heir to a foreign land? Maybe he sends Jaime and he meets Tyrion, there. Then his speech will be Justice. Revenge. Dwarves and his cocks. ETA: mark my words. Doran's travel to Meereen would be to get TYRION, not Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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