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Mindwalker

[Book Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Repercussion III

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I don't know if they could put her giving up needle at the end, that has to come fairly early as part of her committing to the FM, but I am going with what came to me the other day, that one of the things they have done very successfully is put Maise with other actors and create snappy, interesting dialogue where she has good screen chemistry w/them. This is what they brought Tom back for. We KNOW they can do it because they did it for Tywin & Arya chatting in Harenhall and the Arya & the Hound Tour Westeros....so, even if this wasn't in the books, it could give background on the FM and be good TV.

So, they have failed at one of the few things we have seen them do well in the past this season and with the same actress and actor. LOL.

I totally agree. Her banter with the KM would not only make her training more interesting but would advance that plot more fluidly

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I'm still ruminating on what possessed the critics who got eps 1-4 to pronounce this possibly the best season ever and claim that the D's were on their way to improving the books?

I repeat: I have serious criticisms of the last two books, but that didn't prevent me from having watched eps. 1-4 and seeing this was a train wreck coming.

And the more I have thought about it, Arya's story does deserve criticsm. Just because they haven't technically changed much from the books doesn't get them off the hook for making her story disjointed, hard to penetrate if you didn't read the books, wasting Tom W. along with clothing him in army surplus handoffs, and generally making it dull and incomprehensible.

The only reason it hasn't gotten more criticism is that their poor handling of her story was overshadowed by Charlie's Angels from Dorne and Sansa Bolton.

ITA on the Arya story issues. Their questionable and odd handling of Arya's story is being lost in the shuffle of outbursts at all the problematic handling of everyone else's blatantly awful story lines. It also seems like instead of actually doing the story any intricate justice........that the show is just waiting for Mace Tyrell's lost ship to reach Braavos before Arya's story is allowed to make any kind of progress going forward........with Meryn Trant's arrival for her list. It really does feel like the show is killing time waiting for Meryn Trant to show up in Braavos. Hopefully, Arya and Braavos get a bit of attention themselves...........and we get to see some of the real city, before the show thrusts Arya and HER LIST and MERYN at us haphazardly. But, I've learned and I know better now than to really hope for anything to work out in a decent manner when it comes to D&D.

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I don't know if they could put her giving up needle at the end, that has to come fairly early as part of her committing to the FM, but I am going with what came to me the other day, that one of the things they have done very successfully is put Maise with other actors and create snappy, interesting dialogue where she has good screen chemistry w/them. This is what they brought Tom back for. We KNOW they can do it because they did it for Tywin & Arya chatting in Harenhall and the Arya & the Hound Tour Westeros....so, even if this wasn't in the books, it could give background on the FM and be good TV.

So, they have failed at one of the few things we have seen them do well in the past this season and with the same actress and actor. LOL.

Exactly, if they wanted to bring Tom back to have a go at Arya having conversations and interactions that are interesting with a known quality, they've not done so as of yet. They should allow for Tom as a combo of KM/Jaqen to have the quiet talks of instruction with Arya about the FM, what they do, where they came from, what's to be expected of her, as well as......just discussions of Braavos NOW and how the city works. That would help viewers have a feel for it if Poor Arya is ever allowed out to roam it's streets. Instead of using Tom for the KM convos with Arya, they've totally altered the hitting scenes (it was about training her other senses while blind, the hitting by the KM, not the beating out of lies in favor of truth), and turned the Waif into MeanGirl#1 as well.

Honestly, the House of Black and White feels more like the Temple of D&D Nihilism, just in case we should forget Nothing IS Nothing. Worse, it's on it's way to boring and cliche, and quite the waste of Tom.

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ITA on the Arya story issues. Their questionable and odd handling of Arya's story is being lost in the shuffle of outbursts at all the problematic handling of everyone else's blatantly awful story lines. It also seems like instead of actually doing the story any intricate justice........that the show is just waiting for Mace Tyrell's lost ship to reach Braavos before Arya's story is allowed to make any kind of progress going forward........with Meryn Trant's arrival for her list. It really does feel like the show is killing time waiting for Meryn Trant to show up in Braavos. Hopefully, Arya and Braavos get a bit of attention themselves...........and we get to see some of the real city, before the show thrusts Arya and HER LIST and MERYN at us haphazardly. But, I've learned and I know better now than to really hope for anything to work out in a decent manner when it comes to D&D.

I agree with the Arya story issues as well but, as you and Cas say, they are pretty far down my list right now. Let's get a little very informal poll going: I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on the manner in which they will have Arya kill Trant in the show? Biting a poisoned coin? Seducing him/slashing his femoral artery? Good ol' fashioned stabby stabby? Some other way?

The reason I'm wondering about this is because, while I'm sure it will be very tempting to incorporate one of the two ways we see Arya kill someone in Braavos in the books, Trant has been shown to neither be a "coin biter" nor "into young girls". So I think incorporating one of those two methods would, once again, come off...clumsily with little to no set-up :dunno:

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I totally agree. Her banter with the KM would not only make her training more interesting but would advance that plot more fluidly

I may need to go off and cry in the corner for a minute. The waste that it seems TW may have been for this season as well as....my disappointment at the awful looking acid washed bathrobe he's stuck wearing. A Girl might just...........cry. :crying:

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Exactly, if they wanted to bring Tom back to have a go at Arya having conversations and interactions that are interesting with a known quality, they've not done so as of yet. They should allow for Tom as a combo of KM/Jaqen to have the quiet talks of instruction with Arya about the FM, what they do, where they came from, what's to be expected of her, as well as......just discussions of Braavos NOW and how the city works. That would help viewers have a feel for it if Poor Arya is ever allowed out to roam it's streets. Instead of using Tom for the KM convos with Arya, they've totally altered the hitting scenes (it was about training her other senses while blind, the hitting by the KM, not the beating out of lies in favor of truth), and turned the Waif into MeanGirl#1 as well.

Honestly, the House of Black and White feels more like the Temple of D&D Nihilism, just in case we should forget Nothing IS Nothing. Worse, it's on it's way to boring and cliche, and quite the waste of Tom.

I'm not exactly sure what the point of the whippings for Arya lying to the KM are supposed to be? Is she being punished for lying or is she being punished for not lying well enough? I think it's supposed to be the latter but, of course, I may just be filling that in from reading the books and I don't think it's explained very well in the show because we don't have enough background on the Faceless Men.

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I agree with the Arya story issues as well but, as you and Cas say, they are pretty far down my list right now. Let's get a little very informal poll going: I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on the manner in which they will have Arya kill Trant in the show? Biting a poisoned coin? Seducing him/slashing his femoral artery? Good ol' fashioned stabby stabby? Some other way?

The reason I'm wondering about this is because, while I'm sure it will be very tempting to incorporate one of the two ways we see Arya kill someone in Braavos in the books, Trant has been shown to neither be a "coin biter" nor "into young girls". So I think incorporating one of those two methods would, once again, come off...clumsily with little to no set-up :dunno:

It depends how it's done, the Meryn killing, and what is going on at the time in Arya's story before she discovers Trant's presence. IIRC, we may be getting a bit of a go at the assassination of the insurance guy, the one that the coin biting kill is designed for by Arya and the FM. Now, the Trant thing will be separate from her work, so.........will Trant somehow resemble the killing of Daeron?, ie.....killing and chucking him into the canals, somewhere along her other work, or will they go for anything in the Mercy chapter. I, moreso think, perhaps, they won't go for all the super skills she used in the Mercy chapter, only because of timing, and it will be kind of like her killing of Daeron from the NW, just doing it and then confessing when she gets to the temple? Just a guess. The more I think of it, the more I think it may be that way, with Needle or some such intstrument, just as a call back to Syrio, the reason that Trant is on her list? Although, I wonder if they'd let her go get Needle to do this, or just go with........her confessing that Arya Stark killed him, as she does in the books about Daeron?

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I'm not a fan of Arya's tenure at the HoBaW, but that plot hit a weird bump on the show. It really should be moving a faster - scratch that, it should be moving, period - and we should've gotten Arya's designated kill (the rando of the insurance company) before the personal kill (Trant).

And yeah, Tom popping up every now and then dressed in a faded potato sack isn't really helping.

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Oh, yeah. Julia's post I liked. And this is something coming from someone who, around ten years ago, some people still believe to go around braless and with feathers on her hair. Really. Someone from Mexico once asked me "what? you have Health care in Peru?".

I loved Julia's post as well, it was very interesting as well as quite on point. I'm betting you have better healthcare in Peru than I do.

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It depends how it's done, the Meryn killing, and what is going on at the time in Arya's story before she discovers Trant's presence. IIRC, we may be getting a bit of a go at the assassination of the insurance guy, the one that the coin biting kill is designed for by Arya and the FM. Now, the Trant thing will be separate from her work, so.........will Trant somehow resemble the killing of Daeron?, ie.....killing and chucking him into the canals, somewhere along her other work, or will they go for anything in the Mercy chapter. I, moreso think, perhaps, they won't go for all the super skills she used in the Mercy chapter, only because of timing, and it will be kind of like her killing of Daeron from the NW, just doing it and then confessing when she gets to the temple? Just a guess. The more I think of it, the more I think it may be that way, with Needle or some such intstrument, just as a call back to Syrio, the reason that Trant is on her list? Although, I wonder if they'd let her go get Needle to do this, or just go with........her confessing that Arya Stark killed him, as she does in the books about Daeron?

I would hope for this but...I'm afraid they won't be able to resist the totally cool poisoned coin bit or, even worse, seductress Arya (shudder). And what will really disappoint if they incorporate either of those is, of course, no foreshadowing that either of those methods would work for Trant. I completely agree that those should be saved for later and Trant should be a more free-lance initial killing for Arya but...

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I agree with the Arya story issues as well but, as you and Cas say, they are pretty far down my list right now. Let's get a little very informal poll going: I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on the manner in which they will have Arya kill Trant in the show? Biting a poisoned coin? Seducing him/slashing his femoral artery? Good ol' fashioned stabby stabby? Some other way?

The reason I'm wondering about this is because, while I'm sure it will be very tempting to incorporate one of the two ways we see Arya kill someone in Braavos in the books, Trant has been shown to neither be a "coin biter" nor "into young girls". So I think incorporating one of those two methods would, once again, come off...clumsily with little to no set-up :dunno:

In my heart, I want them to have Arya execute (ZING!) the kill as close to the Mercy chapter as possible, but deep down I can't help but become paranoid that this would result in some egregious sexual encounter blown WAY out of proportion for shock value.

Or maybe she'll kill him with a fireball a la COTF

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The reason I'm wondering about this is because, while I'm sure it will be very tempting to incorporate one of the two ways we see Arya kill someone in Braavos in the books, Trant has been shown to neither be a "coin biter" nor "into young girls". So I think incorporating one of those two methods would, once again, come off...clumsily with little to no set-up :dunno:

Well, I don't know the book story, so let me hazard a guess: If some of these killings take place in a brothel or a similar "sexy" situation, they'll go with that. Call me prejudiced...

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In my heart, I want them to have Arya execute (ZING!) the kill as close to the Mercy chapter as possible, but deep down I can't help but become paranoid that this would result in some egregious sexual encounter blown WAY out of proportion for shock value.

Or maybe she'll kill him with a fireball a la COTF

Well, the closest analog to Raf the Sweetling that Arya offs is now Trant (i.e. sent along as a guard with Cercei's Braavos envoy and on Arya's revenge list) so following the Mercy chapter would make some sense but, I'm with you, I'm afraid of what they might do with that.

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I'm not a fan of Arya's tenure at the HoBaW, but that plot hit a weird bump on the show. It really should be moving a faster - scratch that, it should be moving, period - and we should've gotten Arya's designated kill (the rando of the insurance company) before the personal kill (Trant).

And yeah, Tom popping up every now and then dressed in a faded potato sack isn't really helping.

It would be nice if I could actually SEE half of the action, or masks that wasted so much budget, in the HoBaW, but the lighting makes it hard to do so. Hey, maybe all the bad lighting is so we are so busy trying TO SEE what is going on, we don't notice how crappy the show is, not to mention, nonsensical.

I would hope for this but...I'm afraid they won't be able to resist the totally cool poisoned coin bit or, even worse, seductress Arya (shudder). And what will really disappoint if they incorporate either of those is, of course, no foreshadowing that either of those methods would work for Trant. I completely agree that those should be saved for later and Trant should be a more free-lance initial killing for Arya but...

The only reason I think there might be a chance that the show doesn't go the whole seductress act.......is that I thought that yesterday's WotW article seemed to suggest the hiring of people for the actor's troupe, ie......Izambaro's The Bloody Hand might be being worked on? I can see D&D loving the play within a play, The Bloody Hand....and perhaps it being another vehicle for poor, put upon St. Tyrion, as well as.......more trolling of us? Just a thought, but I never rule any kind of idiocy out with this show, not anymore. Just timewise, I wonder how much time the killing of Trant might get anyway. I do hope they don't have Arya blow the one assassination to go after Trant. That'd piss me off, but lawd knows, D&D can get lazy with it. Oh, maybe they'll let her poison two coins? LOL

Anyway, I thought I noticed the casting call having an actress character, which made me think, maybe, they are doing something with that play within a play.......to maybe wrap up Arya's story there next year, maybe? And maybe, waiting a year on Arya nonsense like that, maybe?

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-casting-has-begun-and-heres-the-list/#more-33393

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It doesn't seem like they have time for the insurance guy and Trant.



Yes, the lying game makes no sense unless you read the books. Convo's with Tom would be more interesting and then non readers would know what the fuck was going on when something did happen like washing corpses or lying or whatever.



I don't think external visits to Braavos is worth it, really, in the scheme of things. They have what they need to make the story interesting: Tom and Maise and the story itself, they simply failed to execute, like they so often do.



I would guess she will stab Trant, but she could push in him the canal, since they already had her do most of the Mercy thing last season in terms of re enacting the death of Lommey.



But, it's all going to lead up to nothing, because Arya killing people is nothing new in the show, and since like stupid children who peek at their Christmas presents, they couldn't hold off Mercy for Braavos and they used it last year...then, however she kills him is going to be either a repeat or less interesting.


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Here are some things that were talked about at ConQuest recently, seems like Arya may stay a bit longer in Braavos? Also this is the one where he read from the Alayne chapter and those attending said he made it clear things are different in the books.



http://historyofwesteros.tumblr.com/post/120153203157/ariannenymeria-highlights-from-the-q-a-with


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It would be nice if I could actually SEE half of the action, or masks that wasted so much budget, in the HoBaW, but the lighting makes it hard to do so. Hey, maybe all the bad lighting is so we are so busy trying TO SEE what is going on, we don't notice how crappy the show is, not to mention, nonsensical.

The only reason I think there might be a chance that the show doesn't go the whole seductress act.......is that I thought that yesterday's WotW article seemed to suggest the hiring of people for the actor's troupe, ie......Izambaro's The Bloody Hand might be being worked on? I can see D&D loving the play within a play, The Bloody Hand....and perhaps it being another vehicle for poor, put upon St. Tyrion, as well as.......more trolling of us? Just a thought, but I never rule any kind of idiocy out with this show, not anymore. Just timewise, I wonder how much time the killing of Trant might get anyway. I do hope they don't have Arya blow the one assassination to go after Trant. That'd piss me off, but lawd knows, D&D can get lazy with it. Oh, maybe they'll let her poison two coins? LOL

Anyway, I thought I noticed the casting call having an actress character, which made me think, maybe, they are doing something with that play within a play.......to maybe wrap up Arya's story there next year, maybe? And maybe, waiting a year on Arya nonsense like that, maybe?

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-casting-has-begun-and-heres-the-list/#more-33393

Very interesting. Thanks! A potential (maybe small) problem will be if they include the play and actually have Arya playing "Mercy", is that Mercy is supposed to be raped in the play. Some could see that as yet another inclusion of rape in the show (ironically, one that actually is in the books). Another thing is that, as you say, there's just not much time to have Arya performing multiple assassinations so I wonder just what they'll go with, etc.

Finally, in those casting descriptions I wonder why people think the battle-weary septon is automatically Meribald? I think that description could just as easily refer to Elder Brother :dunno:

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Here are some things that were talked about at ConQuest recently, seems like Arya may stay a bit longer in Braavos? Also this is the one where he read from the Alayne chapter and those attending said he made it clear things are different in the books.

http://historyofwesteros.tumblr.com/post/120153203157/ariannenymeria-highlights-from-the-q-a-with

Funny. He straight up says that Batfinger is a completely different person than the Littlefinger from the books. I mean, we know that, but it's nice to hear the author say it so straightforwardly.

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Here are some things that were talked about at ConQuest recently, seems like Arya may stay a bit longer in Braavos? Also this is the one where he read from the Alayne chapter and those attending said he made it clear things are different in the books.

http://historyofwesteros.tumblr.com/post/120153203157/ariannenymeria-highlights-from-the-q-a-with

Thanks for that, and I'm still reading it, but I'm bringing this little snippet he said comparing the LF's. It might help George if he knew that the show character now has a new name, nananananananananananaanananananana........BATFINGER!!

Just because every once in awhile I do like to toot my own horn, I should point out I did coin Batfinger, well......I coined many various names for Showfinger, but Batfinger seems to be the compilation that is sticking, as Cas Stark said, paraphrasing, Batfinger was a keeper, LOL and now.....we just need to let GRRM know about it. It might help. Anyway, it's interesting, I find, that GRRM does point blank now consider the book and show versions of THE Finger to be two different characters.

You know, book-Littlefinger and show-Littlefinger are two completely different people, for example, and when I write about Littlefinger, I have to make sure that I don’t unconsciously lapse into writing the character as seen on the show as portrayed by Aidan Gillen….who is a great character in his own right, but is not the guy who is in the books, and obviously has a very different way of thinking about things.”

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I'm still ruminating on what possessed the critics who got eps 1-4 to pronounce this possibly the best season ever and claim that the D's were on their way to improving the books?

I repeat: I have serious criticisms of the last two books, but that didn't prevent me from having watched eps. 1-4 and seeing this was a train wreck coming.

And the more I have thought about it, Arya's story does deserve criticsm. Just because they haven't technically changed much from the books doesn't get them off the hook for making her story disjointed, hard to penetrate if you didn't read the books, wasting Tom W. along with clothing him in army surplus handoffs, and generally making it dull and incomprehensible.

The only reason it hasn't gotten more criticism is that their poor handling of her story was overshadowed by Charlie's Angels from Dorne and Sansa Bolton.

I think that the main if not only reason GOT has been a critics' darling is because it's on HBO. If it were on Starz, it would have been dismissed long time ago as the trashiest trash on TV. There is a clear favoritism going on there.

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