[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

[bdub32689]

I was completely underwhelmed by the final battle. Personally, an impressive fight scene is not one that throws as much crap on the screen as possible and adds to the tension by shaking the camera.

Wasn't supposed to be a battle or an impressive fight scene the whole point was the walker ambush causing caos hence the shaking camera and the fast shots.

[The Winter Queen]

This episode- Wow!! Like many said, definitely one of the best in the series (if not the outright first).

After watching it, I really want to believe that Jon is important. The ending with the Night's King just made it seem that way. How can we possibly lose him for good after he gets Caesar'd? However, there are strong indicators for both outcomes- him dying permanently (wall becomes a wreck, Sam maybe becomes more important, etc.), or him being resurrected (what everyone has been discussing).

I don't feel like what Sam said was necessarily foreshadowing, as I feel like in the past characters have said stuff like this before (especially relating to Robb) only to have the characters die for good. But I thought it was funny that he said "I have been waiting for years". Haha! It has been years since the last book came out.

As for Jorah- I think he wants to see Dany as he dies.

Edited June 1, 2015 by The Winter Queen

[Jonathan N]

Meh: Arya. What she is doing seems interesting but it seems less tied to the plot than Dany and significantly smaller after that scene North of the Wall. She seems like what she is doing is interesting, just not at all important.

It may seem that way, but Arya is going to have a huge role to play in the end game, you can count on that. Bran and Sansa will too.

Everyone seems to think the ASOIAF/Game of Thrones is really all just about Jon Snow, Tyrion and Dany.......I think when the Winds of Winter is released, that will be far from the truth

I agree, but I also agree with the post you responded to: the show failed to portray how Arya develops faceless men's skillset--they show her being slapped when she lies to them, but she says things in exactly the same way, we are supposed to believe she is becoming much better at lying, but we don't really see that.

[_jt____]

Pretty great episode and seeing those Others on the mountain side was so eerie, they looked like a GOT version of the four horsemen, definitely sent shivers down my spine. There were some great lines as well, especially the Sam one about *waiting for Jon for years* and that he*always comes back*. Also when Arya walks in the docks and as she says by ''the canals'' as a cat walks by, Cat of the canals anyone? and Ramsay saying Feast for Crows as well as all the utterings of F*** in that final sequence were just gold.

[aFeastForDragons]

I don't mind that Deepwood Motte was cut for this. It was a mental battle.

[Xarkar]

I am surprised there hasn't been much discussion about the hooded figure on the boat.

There is no way that was just random. The Wildlings were in white camo, and the NW was in their black garb.

Why would someone need to hide with a brown cloak over them.

Maybe it is Benjan? Maybe coldhands? maybe it is the Nights King himself?

There has to be something significant about the hooded man (he wasnt moving, wasnt rowing).

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I am surprised there hasn't been much discussion about the hooded figure on the boat.

There is no way that was just random. The Wildlings were in white camo, and the NW was in their black garb.

Why would someone need to hide with a brown cloak over them.

Maybe it is Benjan? Maybe coldhands? maybe it is the Nights King himself?

There has to be something significant about the hooded man (he wasnt moving, wasnt rowing).

plus no one else was hooded iirc.

[Northbound3.0]

I don't think there can be any doubt, the Others are evil now. Even after the FotFM, I was still skeptical about their intentions, not any more. They just slaughtered tens of thousands, in an instant. Not good. Bye Felicia! You gots to go.

[dbunting]

I was wondering about the hood also, kept waiting for it to stand up.

[_jt____]

I am surprised there hasn't been much discussion about the hooded figure on the boat.

There is no way that was just random. The Wildlings were in white camo, and the NW was in their black garb.

Why would someone need to hide with a brown cloak over them.

Maybe it is Benjan? Maybe coldhands? maybe it is the Nights King himself?

There has to be something significant about the hooded man (he wasnt moving, wasnt rowing).

If you look at the scene between 55:40-55:47 you can see his face, doesn't look like benjen or anyone important.

[Shadow of Shaggydog]

Do you think that wildling woman character was Harma Dogshead?

Well, acording to IMDB her name was "Karsi" ... I must admit I found her quite hot, so I was rooting for her :) although I knew she was gonna die, she had death written all over her...

[dbunting]

I really liked this episode. It seemed like there was no let down from the start to the finish.

Cat of the canals...nice drop if you noticed it. Ice spiders got a mention. We saw Wun-Wun! I was thinking he would ne cut from the show.

Very clear how the final battle is setting up now and clearly fire vs ice. Valyrian steel and dragon glass and dragon fire?

Liked how Tyrion referenced Dany not going to Westeros, about wanting something more. What if she never truly goes to Westeros and instead heads north to the battle for humanity.

Dany and the broken wheel speech made it.

Just such a well done episode that it's hard to capture it all.

[dbunting]

I really liked this episode. It seemed like there was no let down from the start to the finish.

Cat of the canals...nice drop if you noticed it. Ice spiders got a mention. We saw Wun-Wun! I was thinking he would be cut from the show. Lord o bones made a splash of an appearance

Very clear how the final battle is setting up now and clearly fire vs ice. Valyrian steel and dragon glass and dragon fire?

Liked how Tyrion referenced Dany not going to Westeros, about wanting something more. What if she never truly goes to Westeros and instead heads north to the battle for humanity.

Dany and the broken wheel speech made it.

Just such a well done episode that it's hard to capture it all.

[Hangover of the Morning]

I am usually very forgiving when it comes to the show. I have been enjoying this season quite a lot but Hardhome has to be my least favourite episode this year and one of my least favourite overall.

The non-willdling stuff was surprisingly boring and not that much interesting. I think I expected more from the Tyrion/Danny as well as from Cersei's imprisonment. The Sansa/Theon stuff was quite emotional and I think I enjoyed that scene the most.

Hardhome felt like a mini version of a typical fantasy movie. It was laden by one cliche trope after the other. The whole sequence was just too predictable and generic and I could guess what everyone was going to say or do seconds before it happened. There was some good tension in the end and great acting from Jon but otherwise, it was pretty underwhelming. Why didn't they just flee from the start? What was the point of fighting back? And, why at the end didn't they row as fast as they could? The fighting was cool but I honestly don't care that much about bloodshed.

[Stonehearted Snake]

I don't think there can be any doubt, the Others are evil now. Even after the FotFM, I was still skeptical about their intentions, not any more. They just slaughtered tens of thousands, in an instant. Not good. Bye Felicia! You gots to go.

I've been kinda into the Others aren't the Big Bad theory in the books, though never taking it so far as people are the evil ones, which some posters argue. But they are definitely coming off as evil in the show and that's fine. It's hard to show really complex underlying emotions and if the end result is the same, I am ok with that.

That being said, nothing we've seen has dismissed the possibility that the CotF are somehow connected to the Others/WW. Could be they created them to attack the First Men and their weapon got out of control or maybe they are still in control. Either way, I am still thinking there is maaaybe something there. Don't think we will learn anything more about the CotF this season though, since Bran is on hiatus.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Stonehearted Snake

[Destiny's Warrior]

Episode of the season thus far.

Question though, is Jon the first to kill an Other with Valaryian Steel? I thought that showdown was excellent as it showed how powerful The Others can be. Ragdollin' Jonny boy had me on the edge.

Loved the demonstration of power at the end from the NK. It'll be interesting when they finally hit The Wall.

[Pilusmagnus]

Also, I was glad that we heard a piece of the Old Tongue, because IMO, the biggest inconsistency in the ASOIAF world (book and show both) is that wildlings speak the common tongue. There is NO WAY a tongue would survive for thousands of years with its people so separated spiritually and physically from the rest of the world.

[Pilusmagnus]

sorry, double post

Why can we not delete our own messages?

Edited June 1, 2015 by Pilusmagnus

[Jonathan N]

I truly believe that sending Jaime to Dorne was one of the worst decisions D&D have made, when they had a reliably great plotline of Brienne, Jaime, and LSH in the Riverlands (with other recurring characters).

I suppose Dorne is going to be important to Dany.

Something not mentioned on this thread, but Tyrion's speech mentioned *all* the great houses, except the Martells. They will be the only "rich" who support Dany, and she will ally with the Dornish. That is the only reason we have Dorne. Now, whether it needed the Sandy Worms and Jaime and Bronn is an entirely different matter.

I agree with "one of the worst decisions" characterization here, but I think it is debatable which D&D decision have been the worst one so far, there were quite a few really bad ones this season. My vote goes to the show Littlefinger sending Sansa away. Given as all earlier episodes portrayed him as being this sort of pedophile, obsessed with Sansa, it didn't make any sense whatsoever, from character development perspective. And Sansa going along with it for "revenge" is a close second, IMO.

[dndmn422]

I agree, but I also agree with the post you responded to: the show failed to portray how Arya develops faceless men's skillset--they show her being slapped when she lies to them, but she says things in exactly the same way, we are supposed to believe she is becoming much better at lying, but we don't really see that.

I think the point is that we the viewers couldnt tell the difference because we aren't trained, but the faceless men have so perfected the art that THEY can tell the difference even if its too subtle for anyone else.

I am usually very forgiving when it comes to the show. I have been enjoying this season quite a lot but Hardhome has to be my least favourite episode this year and one of my least favourite overall.

The non-willdling stuff was surprisingly boring and not that much interesting. I think I expected more from the Tyrion/Danny as well as from Cersei's imprisonment. The Sansa/Theon stuff was quite emotional and I think I enjoyed that scene the most.

Hardhome felt like a mini version of a typical fantasy movie. It was laden by one cliche trope after the other. The whole sequence was just too predictable and generic and I could guess what everyone was going to say or do seconds before it happened. There was some good tension in the end and great acting from Jon but otherwise, it was pretty underwhelming. Why didn't they just flee from the start? What was the point of fighting back? And, why at the end didn't they row as fast as they could? The fighting was cool but I honestly don't care that much about bloodshed.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Battle scenes have been done in film for decades, so its kind of hard to coordinate a battle without doing something that has been done before. To me the execution and quality was great, top notch for any television show and that's what matters most. And it was great to actually see the walkers in action, something we still have yet to see in the books. It is necessary to make sure viewers know what the real threat is and this scene, especially the closing shot, establishes that perfectly.

As far as why Jon didn't just flee, if you notice there is a pause just before he decides hold back the undead charge. I think he was weighing the decision in his mind and I loved that moment, because honestly I never bought into the wilding/NW alliance in the books. Here Jon made a conscious decision to prove to the wildings that they were in this together. If in that moment he turned around and left then what sort of alliance is that?

The non-rowing rowboat was confusing but I think it was just to show the shock on the rowers' minds that they literally just saw thousands of dead raised.