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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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Also, I was glad that we heard a piece of the Old Tongue, because IMO, the biggest inconsistency in the ASOIAF world (book and show both) is that wildlings speak the common tongue. There is NO WAY a tongue would survive for thousands of years with its people so separated spiritually and physically from the rest of the world.

What does Ygritte speak in the books? Or Rattleshirt, Varamyr, or almost all the non-Thenn/Giant wildlings?

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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Jorah? Maybe he'll get eaten by Drogon in the pits. But it doesn't seem to be time for a flying Dany yet. Plus they're not going to waste the Greyscale plotline.



The battle was shaky and unclear at parts. I couldn't make out who was fighting whom since they all seem to be the same colour. However, I would say it's still better than the 2nd Transformer movie battles.


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Do we think Jorah will take the role of Barristan when the crap hits the fan this week in the Pit? He could be taken up to the pyramid, perhaps to protect Tyrion? Then we get the armored knight scene that Barristan has in the book?

Also - maybe it's just me, but I keep thinking the fact the scale is on his arm - maybe we get the Victarion Morroqo injured hand/arm treatment for Jorah.

I agree that both Tyrion and Jorah will assume the barristan role. Holding things together until daenerys gets back. I think that whatever happens in the pit will redeem him enough so that he can come back for good. The hand fixing would be nice but I doubt would actually happen. But it's an interesting theory to consider.

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I would think Dany flying should be focused on how amazing it is for her, and how happy it makes her, not focused on how the thing she is riding right now just ate someone she clearly kinda liked and respected. And I also don't think they would waste the greyscale plotline he recently acquired. It's like when someone gets a limb chopped off or other body deformation, the laws of TV state that they can't die for at least another season because they have acquired this deformation.


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What does Ygritte speak in the books? Or Rattleshirt, Varamyr, or almost all the non-Thenn/Giant wildlings?

Common tongue, else Jon would not understand them...

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Jorah? Maybe he'll get eaten by Drogon in the pits. But it doesn't seem to be time for a flying Dany yet. Plus they're not going to waste the Greyscale plotline.

The battle was shaky and unclear at parts. I couldn't make out who was fighting whom since they all seem to be the same colour. However, I would say it's still better than the 2nd Transformer movie battles.

I've been pondering this too as I was convinced Jorah was taking JC's place and thus confirmed to return to Westeros. But now I wonder if we are just supposed to infer that he is resigned to death and wants to go out in glory serving his queen in some way rather than as a nasty Stone Man.

ETA: Infer that because he looks at his grey scale and then goes back to Yezzan.

Edited by Stonehearted Snake

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I am surprised there hasn't been much discussion about the hooded figure on the boat.

There is no way that was just random. The Wildlings were in white camo, and the NW was in their black garb.

Why would someone need to hide with a brown cloak over them.

Maybe it is Benjan? Maybe coldhands? maybe it is the Nights King himself?

There has to be something significant about the hooded man (he wasnt moving, wasnt rowing).

He was holding a camera or he was holding an on-board motor engine so they could move the boat back and forth. The hood was to hide one of these.

Edited by aFeastForDragons

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I think the point is that we the viewers couldnt tell the difference because we aren't trained, but the faceless men have so perfected the art that THEY can tell the difference even if its too subtle for anyone else.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Battle scenes have been done in film for decades, so its kind of hard to coordinate a battle without doing something that has been done before. To me the execution and quality was great, top notch for any television show and that's what matters most. And it was great to actually see the walkers in action, something we still have yet to see in the books. It is necessary to make sure viewers know what the real threat is and this scene, especially the closing shot, establishes that perfectly.

As far as why Jon didn't just flee, if you notice there is a pause just before he decides hold back the undead charge. I think he was weighing the decision in his mind and I loved that moment, because honestly I never bought into the wilding/NW alliance in the books. Here Jon made a conscious decision to prove to the wildings that they were in this together. If in that moment he turned around and left then what sort of alliance is that?

The non-rowing rowboat was confusing but I think it was just to show the shock on the rowers' minds that they literally just saw thousands of dead raised.

I like your explanations and I agree that the actually choreography of the scene was done incredibly well. I think it's just simply the fact that I like the supernatural stuff the leas interesting in the show as well as in the books. The whole negotiation scene was a carbon copy of stuff we are used to seeing in fantasy/historic movies. The dialogues weren't bad just tad bit predictable and so was most of the stuff that happened afterwards.

The Blackwater battle or the Battle at Castle Black head be on the edge of the seat because I was very emotionally invested in the characters and because there were so many powerful quite moments. This time I knew Jon was coming back so the only people in danger were Tormund and Edd. I predicted that the Thenn will save Jon or that the she-wilding will die. The only reason why she got so much screen time was so that her death would make us feel bad, which I though is a fairly cheap and predictable trick.

We and the characters have known for years that the WW can raise the death so seeing it happen didn't particularly awe struck me.

The whole scene was incredibly well done and probably the best battle sequence on the show so far but I didn't feel emotionally invested and the predictable dialogues and scenes broke the immersion for me.

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Near the end of the battle when they were showing the knights king from the feet and scanning up I was half expecting it to be Benjen Stark. For some reason I kept expecting him to appear. Imagine how Jon would have felt had he been the one to raise up the dead and stare at him from the beach with those blue eyes.

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Awesome episode!!! I'm thinking Jorah is gonna be Drogon's dinner in Daznak's pit. Wonder if that means Drogon gets greyscale?? Can dragons get human diseases??

NK was pretty cool as well. I'm now pretty sure he is a Stark from the way he looked at Jon.

Interesting idea about dragons and greyscale.

Wonder if Jorah might also pull a Typhoid Mary... It would be just as serious and much less gross epidemic to portray than bloody flux. The inability to save the large group of civilians from the flux was an important lesson from the books.

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Interesting idea about dragons and greyscale.

Wonder if Jorah might also pull a Typhoid Mary... It would be just as serious and much less gross epidemic to portray than bloody flux. The inability to save the large group of civilians from the flux was an important lesson from the books.

If Drogon gets Greyscale, wouldn't it make his armor stronger? Or maybe he'll get too heavy to fly. LOL.

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Different theory about Olly: He befriends that dead wilding's daughters and learns that all people have value.

I was thinking that too, and years from now they take each other V cards

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That was no battle and that was no massacre. That was a recruiting visit.

:agree: Yes I think that is what the show is trying to imply, that the reason the WW haven't attacked yet is they are still building their army of the undead. Because seriously they totally could have reached the Wall and probably even had a few trips back and forth from there to the Land of Always Winter in the time since s2 finale at FotFM and Hardhome.

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Why do I feel that Jorah will take the role of Quentyn? Given that the next episode is called the Dance of Dragons, do you think its the episode where Dany will fly away on Drogon? Because in the preview it does show the pits again.. and then so after this Jorah will try go after her by trying to get on a dragon and dies in the process, but then again as someone said above, that will ruin the whole greyscale plot.



That being said, any speculations as to why the next episode is called the Dance of Dragons, with references to the books?



Sorry if this stuff has already been talked about!


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Episode of the season thus far.

:agree:

Question though, is Jon the first to kill an Other with Valaryian Steel? I thought that showdown was excellent as it showed how powerful The Others can be. Ragdollin' Jonny boy had me on the edge.

Loved the demonstration of power at the end from the NK. It'll be interesting when they finally hit The Wall.

I think he is. The Valyrian Freehold didn't yet exist at the time of the last invasion of the Others (some say around 8,000 years ago), but emerged a few thousand years later. And I assume that Valyrian steel wasn't forged before that.

So I think that nobody could know until now what effect Valyrian steel has against the Others.

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I've seen this a few times but I'm not sure how or why people are making this correlation. I know that the old Starks have been called more fierce and grey than Ned but that is a completely different world than the Others trying to kill out mankind. Perhaps there's something to the Night King's wife but that would be the only way I could see there being some Other blood in the Starks. I think the Starks are the ones that are meant to keep the Others in check, not be a part of them. That would put them in the same league as Craster and his sons and I really don't see the Starks being in that league.

The last hero brokered a peace with WW instead of defeating them , Last hero weds a female other and the Stark's are a result of this union. I find that theory plausible.

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Do we think Jorah will take the role of Barristan when the crap hits the fan this week in the Pit? He could be taken up to the pyramid, perhaps to protect Tyrion? Then we get the armored knight scene that Barristan has in the book?

Also - maybe it's just me, but I keep thinking the fact the scale is on his arm - maybe we get the Victarion Morroqo injured hand/arm treatment for Jorah.

I think its obvious that Tyrion will be commanding her forces with Selmy out of the picture, and that will be fantastic.

The thing I don't get is that we have the pit scene coming up in one of the last two eps, and we havent had any set up of the yunkish, the siege, the peace, etc.

Are they going to arrange it so that Dany's enemies move in AFTER she disappears to capitalize? I can see the season ending on a cliffhanger with Dany's fate not being clear, and then next season its Tyrion, Hizdhar, and the anti-Dany coalition. Even if the audience does get to see that Dany is alive, I'm just not sure how they're going to pull all that together. I guess we'll have some more Tyrion in charge.

It would also be too rushed to have Jon's scene this season. It's pretty clear that Olly will be the Brutus rather than...drawing a blank, not Satin but the other one who may have tampered with the letter, who's wrist Jon grabs, anyway... they laid it on pretty thick with Sam telling Olly that a man has to do things that others think is wrong when he knows its right, and then obliviously telling Olly not to worry, that Jon will be back. I don't think that's what Olly was worried about.

But Jon hasn't had time to even really develop his plans. I think the battle at Hardhome will provide the catalyst, the thing he can point to every time someone questions what he's doing, and that makes it more plausible that he would even attempt to get the NW to go along with opening the gate to the army they were just miraculously saved from. I don't know, I didn't think Stannis' march was real when it happened. Felt too early, but he's clearly hunkered down just like in the book, though he may still send Mel back to the wall, and perhaps Davos to find Rickon. Its hard to call the way they've jumbled the storylines, but I just don't see Jon getting stabbed this season.

Though I do desperately want for the season to end with that cliffhanger. I know people who are diehards of the show but haven't read the books, and they don't seem to pick up on the fact that I never talk about Jon snow. It is killing me. I want them to share my pain, to have to suffer and wait to find out like I've been these last, oh man, 4 years. All I've ever said to them is that the last book ended with a bunch of cliffhangers and they say ok ok don't say any more. Also, if that happened this season, we'd have a definite endpoint of next April for finding out for sure if he's alive, dead, resurrected, whatever, whether TWOW is out by then or not.

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The Realms of Men need to get the alchemists working overtime on building wildfire reserves. You need to rig up towns, cities and holdfasts with wildfire so you have a last resort tactic to avoid swelling the ranks of the army of the dead. Burn yourself, save the realm!


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