Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

Recommended Posts

I've been pondering this too as I was convinced Jorah was taking JC's place and thus confirmed to return to Westeros. But now I wonder if we are just supposed to infer that he is resigned to death and wants to go out in glory serving his queen in some way rather than as a nasty Stone Man.

ETA: Infer that because he looks at his grey scale and then goes back to Yezzan.

Perhaps he'll fight Daario and they'll both get burned. The episode could've been called "A Barbecue with Dragons".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he is. The Valyrian Freehold didn't yet exist at the time of the last invasion of the Others (some say around 8,000 years ago), but emerged a few thousand years later. And I assume that Valyrian steel wasn't forged before that.

So I think that nobody could know until now what effect Valyrian steel has against the Others.

I think this is too historical a view, since the story isn't going to adhere to our inferences about the history of this fake world. There's a reason it's all so vague.

I think the story of Azor Ahai is as much an origin myth about the invention of Valyrian steel as anything. And, unless I'm remembering the legend wrong - it has been a couple of years - I think it's significant that Jon, in that battle scene, tried two weapons against the WW, which both shattered, before finding Longclaw. Didn't the first two swords AA made shatter, then the third was Lightbringer? Maybe I'm remembering that wrong, but I thought that sequence might have been a nod to that myth for the benefit of the readers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nah i wont go that far jon will be important but not AAR ...but i agree with rest of that

If not Jon then who? I don't believe it's Stannis or Dany (despite the comet).

Nah i wont go that far jon will be important but not AAR ...but i agree with rest of that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh: Arya. What she is doing seems interesting but it seems less tied to the plot than Dany and significantly smaller after that scene North of the Wall. She seems like what she is doing is interesting, just not at all important.

I agree, but I also agree with the post you responded to: the show failed to portray how Arya develops faceless men's skillset--they show her being slapped when she lies to them, but she says things in exactly the same way, we are supposed to believe she is becoming much better at lying, but we don't really see that.

This is a little off your point, but it occurs to me that the kindly man may very well know that Arya will never become "no one" and is willing to train her anyway, whether because someone paid on her behalf or Jaqen vouched for her or simply because of the Starks having long been anti-slavers or having some other association with Bravos/Faceless men that hasn't been fully elaborated yet, or maybe just because he pities her and/or thinks she could still serve the many-faced god even if she isn't a full fledged FM, or just some other reason. The show could be presenting that as Jaqen, being her friend, doing her a solid by letting her get as much useful training as she can knowing all the while that she will "fail" and never become one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its obvious that Tyrion will be commanding her forces with Selmy out of the picture, and that will be fantastic.

The thing I don't get is that we have the pit scene coming up in one of the last two eps, and we havent had any set up of the yunkish, the siege, the peace, etc.

Are they going to arrange it so that Dany's enemies move in AFTER she disappears to capitalize? I can see the season ending on a cliffhanger with Dany's fate not being clear, and then next season its Tyrion, Hizdhar, and the anti-Dany coalition. Even if the audience does get to see that Dany is alive, I'm just not sure how they're going to pull all that together. I guess we'll have some more Tyrion in charge.

It would also be too rushed to have Jon's scene this season. It's pretty clear that Olly will be the Brutus rather than...drawing a blank, not Satin but the other one who may have tampered with the letter, who's wrist Jon grabs, anyway... they laid it on pretty thick with Sam telling Olly that a man has to do things that others think is wrong when he knows its right, and then obliviously telling Olly not to worry, that Jon will be back. I don't think that's what Olly was worried about.

But Jon hasn't had time to even really develop his plans. I think the battle at Hardhome will provide the catalyst, the thing he can point to every time someone questions what he's doing, and that makes it more plausible that he would even attempt to get the NW to go along with opening the gate to the army they were just miraculously saved from. I don't know, I didn't think Stannis' march was real when it happened. Felt too early, but he's clearly hunkered down just like in the book, though he may still send Mel back to the wall, and perhaps Davos to find Rickon. Its hard to call the way they've jumbled the storylines, but I just don't see Jon getting stabbed this season.

Though I do desperately want for the season to end with that cliffhanger. I know people who are diehards of the show but haven't read the books, and they don't seem to pick up on the fact that I never talk about Jon snow. It is killing me. I want them to share my pain, to have to suffer and wait to find out like I've been these last, oh man, 4 years. All I've ever said to them is that the last book ended with a bunch of cliffhangers and they say ok ok don't say any more. Also, if that happened this season, we'd have a definite endpoint of next April for finding out for sure if he's alive, dead, resurrected, whatever, whether TWOW is out by then or not.

Jon is going to do 2 things before this season ends:

Send Sam and Gilly to Oldtown now that Maester Aemon is gone

Get stabbed by Olly, sans conspiracy from the rest of the NW members.

I don't really see a coordinated assissination attempt against Jon. My guess is that Olly just walks up to him and stabs him, and maybe that emboldens some of Jon's enemies to do the same.

This season hasn't shown Jon making tons of plans or the NW increasing resistance to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I would have been rowing my boat a little bit faster....

And why the hell can't the wights swim?

The wights are former Wildlings. I doubt that swimming lessons were a common thing for the children of the free folk. They could probably walk along the bottom, but it'd be slow going...

I was thinking the exact same thing! She would have been amazing as the show alternative to Val. I still don't understand why she let the wight-kids kill her....

It's a pipe dream, but maybe she could become a Coldhands stand-in...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The wights are former Wildlings. I doubt that swimming lessons were a common thing for the children of the free folk. They could probably walk along the bottom, but it'd be slow going...

It's a pipe dream, but maybe she could become a Coldhands stand-in...

I haven't looked up the quote, but didn't whoever actually went to Hardhome in the books sent a raven mentioning there were things in the water?

I expected to see the wights head straight into the water after the boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't looked up the quote, but didn't whoever actually went to Hardhome in the books sent a raven mentioning there were things in the water?

I expected to see the wights head straight into the water after the boat.

The letter:

At hardhome with six ships. Wild seas. Blackbird lost with all hands, two Lyseni ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water. Very bad here. Wildlings eating their own dead. Dead things in the woods. Braavosi captains will only take women, children on their ships. Witch women call us slavers. Attempt to take Storm Crow defeated, six crew dead, many wildlings. Eight ravens left. Dead things in the water. Send help by land, seas wracked by storms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly, Ramsay assaulting a camp of 6,000 soldiers with just 20 men is ridiculous.

I don't think that Ramsay is planning a real assault. He is probably just planning a guerrilla action. I.e. picking off a stray soldier, flaying the soldier, lighting something on fire and leaving the skinned soldier as a scare tactic.

Hopefully, Ramsay gets into a skirmish and is badly wounded. He returns to Winterfell and is killed by Sansa in the season finale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is utterly out-there crackpottitude but maybe there is no point to the WW making wights when they are in/on water because then they belong to the Drowned God? They are set up as opposing forces somewhat in TWOIAF.

Edited by Stonehearted Snake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dead things in the water - that was the ominous line I was thinking of, thank-you Stonehearted Snake!

That's what made me think the wights went into the water after the ships. So maybe they 'drown' in some manner. I just don't see water stopping their urge to go after living beings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't not have Jon be the leader to take the Other leader down after a standoff scene like that.


Coming to a screen near you: Lord Commander Jon “The Bastard” Snow versus The Nights King, aka Puddles Jr. Two warriors enter, one shall leave.



Also, it'd be pretty useful to have an army of giants right about now. Wun Wun was brushing the wights aside like flies. ETA on Giant wights?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dead things in the water - that was the ominous line I was thinking of, thank-you Stonehearted Snake!

That's what made me think the wights went into the water after the ships. So maybe they 'drown' in some manner. I just don't see water stopping their urge to go after living beings.

did you see my other post? It's some pots cracking alright but maybe there is a reason they don't go in the water... The Drowned God!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that Ramsay is planning a real assault. He is probably just planning a guerrilla action. I.e. picking off a stray soldier, flaying the soldier, lighting something on fire and leaving the skinned soldier as a scare tactic.

Hopefully, Ramsay gets into a skirmish and is badly wounded. He returns to Winterfell and is killed by Sansa in the season finale.

I think Myranda will be killed in the escape. Ramsay will be livid that he just lost his three toys: Theon, Sansa, and Myranda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a little off your point, but it occurs to me that the kindly man may very well know that Arya will never become "no one" and is willing to train her anyway, whether because someone paid on her behalf or Jaqen vouched for her or simply because of the Starks having long been anti-slavers or having some other association with Bravos/Faceless men that hasn't been fully elaborated yet, or maybe just because he pities her and/or thinks she could still serve the many-faced god even if she isn't a full fledged FM, or just some other reason. The show could be presenting that as Jaqen, being her friend, doing her a solid by letting her get as much useful training as she can knowing all the while that she will "fail" and never become one of them.

I'm 100% sure that Arya kills the insurance guy

I'm 100% sure that she tells a lie in her own self-interest that Jaqen won't detect, completing that portion of her training

I'm 50% sure that lie is about killing Meryn Trent

I'm 100% sure that she moves onto the next stage of the process

He probably knows that she will never become no one. I'm not convinced it's because they're friends. There's an ulterior motive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really see a coordinated assissination attempt against Jon. My guess is that Olly just walks up to him and stabs him, and maybe that emboldens some of Jon's enemies to do the same.

I can actually hear that kid's whiney voice "They killed my mother and father. They burned my village. I'm going to shank you Jon".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×