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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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did you see my other post? It's some pots cracking alright but maybe there is a reason they don't go in the water... The Drowned God!

Possible!

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I'm 100% sure that Arya kills the insurance guy

I'm 100% sure that she tells a lie in her own self-interest that Jaqen won't detect, completing that portion of her training

I'm 50% sure that lie is about killing Meryn Trent

I'm 100% sure that she moves onto the next stage of the process

He probably knows that she will never become no one. I'm not convinced it's because they're friends. There's an ulterior motive.

This sounds good to me. I'll add that I still like the theory that's been floated that Arya will wind up in Oldtown with Sam.

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Ramsey and Roose talk about how "damn, we good-ass fighters in the North, if Stannis comes up against us we gon' kick his ass!" But have they ever fought in any battles that actually took place in the North?

Ramsey's never fought in any large scale battle ever before in his life. Just that skirmish with Yara.

And Roose... Roose fought in the War against the Mad King, or at least was alive at that time, but there were no battles behind the neck. The Greyjoy Rebellion was also only fought in the Iron Islands.... It's not like skill with fighting in the snow is a trait bred into all Northerners. Also, how many full-blown winters has Ramsey seen before? I'm assuming he's as old as Robb and Jon, and they were still kids the last time winter came along, or maybe not even born yet, idk.

Anyway, if he seriously does major damage to Stannis and his thousands of men with only 20 I'm gonna be hugely pissed at how crazy that is.

Correction: Roose fought multiple battles during the war of the 5 kings, commanding the infantry diversionary force against Tywin at Green fork. Though defeated, he was able to withdraw AND kill his northern rivals in the process by putting them on front lines. He later captures Harrenhal with a cunning ruse ( or roose..) and again is able to skillfully weaken his northern rivals at Duskendale. Roose is a highly experienced commander, and knows that by remaining at with his supplies at Winterfell he'll destroy Stannis via attrition. Perhaps not a good tactician, but a superb strategist.

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I do hate me some Ollie. And to think that little shit's gonna be the one to shank King Crow. Bleh.



Here's hopin' WunWun stomps on him after the fact.


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Jon will p





I do hate me some Ollie. And to think that little shit's gonna be the one to shank King Crow. Bleh.



Here's hopin' WunWun stomps on him after the fact.





They'll probably have Jon forgive him right before he blacks out or whatever


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Jon is going to do 2 things before this season ends:

Send Sam and Gilly to Oldtown now that Maester Aemon is gone

Get stabbed by Olly, sans conspiracy from the rest of the NW members.

I don't really see a coordinated assissination attempt against Jon. My guess is that Olly just walks up to him and stabs him, and maybe that emboldens some of Jon's enemies to do the same.

This season hasn't shown Jon making tons of plans or the NW increasing resistance to them.

There's a reason there are multiple scenes showing discord and disagreement with Jon's decision to bring back the wildlings. Jon deciding to march on Winterfell will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Ollie will also be involved of course but he won't be alone, otherwise it completely defeats the purpose of the Watch turning on Jon, a major, major plot line rather than just one rogue kid who would be executed.

There is no reason to believe otherwise besides just wanting to ride the I hate Ollie and D&D circlejerk.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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You know what's strange to me, George RR Martin has been able to make everything going on with the politics of the iron throne and westeros and what's going on with Dany super important and at the forefront because there has never been anything like what happened last night in the books..... But now all the westeros politics and the wheel seem pretty darned insignificant compared to what's to come.

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I'm 100% sure that Arya kills the insurance guy

I'm 100% sure that she tells a lie in her own self-interest that Jaqen won't detect, completing that portion of her training

I'm 50% sure that lie is about killing Meryn Trent

I'm 100% sure that she moves onto the next stage of the process

He probably knows that she will never become no one. I'm not convinced it's because they're friends. There's an ulterior motive.

Yes but the show has to make it plausible. Arya can't become "no one" but the FM lose prestige if they can be so easily fooled. We know the show is changing things that don't have a huge impact on the outcome, but not much time is spent on the Oldtown conspiracy in the books, so if it wasn't important GRRM could have just as easily had Jaqen back at the House of Black and White by the time Arya arrived. The viewers need to see that its her friend to understand that a favor is being done for her. Readers can speculate on what the real reason is.

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There's a reason there are multiple scenes showing discord and disagreement with Jon's decision to bring back the wildlings. Jon deciding to march on Winterfell will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Ollie will also be involved of course but he won't be alone, otherwise it completely defeats the purpose of the Watch turning on Jon, a major, major plot line rather than just one rogue kid who would be executed.

There is no reason to believe otherwise besides just wanting to ride the I hate Ollie and D&D circlejerk.

The two possibilities are not mutually exclusive. I think the point was just that its too soon for Jons Caesar moment to happen this season, but the show has clearly set Olly up to be the Brutus

Also, how do you "ride" a circle jerk?

Edited by ColdhandsIsEinhorn

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Guest

This episode was truly amazing. For the first time in a long time, I not only cared about Jon Snow, I cheered when he fought. I actually CARED about him. And when that WW stared him down with that "You can run, but you can't hide" look it was just fantastic.



This has got to be hands down the best battle sequence of the entire series.



Also, so glad there was a reason for putting Sansa through everything. It had not occurred to me that putting her in Ramsay's hands meant she'd finally find out her little brothers are


alive.



Cersei licking floor water was kind of awesome but sad, hopefully she will finally realize she has no way out of this one.



Dany & Tyrion were fun to watch together, but Jorah was painful. He needs to give it up already. It was nice seeing Tyrion give Dany so much needed "Um no, that's not how that's going to work" counselling, and very nice to see Dany stop him from drinking too much.



Sad about NotVal but can't have everything I guess.



WunWun was AWESOME!



But seriously, that "Come at me Crow" moment was so great. I had to watch the episode twice because I was still reveling in how fantastic Hardhome was.


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At this point, I have to say, the Arya storyline isn't really working for me. Like, this episode lays out in obvious detail how Arya can poison that guy with ease and no risk to herself, and then the cliffhanger is whether Arya can go poison him? What kind of dramatic structure is that?

Could be a red herring.

My guess is she is sent on her first assasination assignment, encounters Trant in the process and rather than doing what she is told she kills Trant instead. Jaquen then punishes Arya by making her drink the milk, /end of her season.

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There's a reason there are multiple scenes showing discord and disagreement with Jon's decision to bring back the wildlings. Jon deciding to march on Winterfell will be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Ollie will also be involved of course but he won't be alone, otherwise it completely defeats the purpose of the Watch turning on Jon, a major, major plot line rather than just one rogue kid who would be executed.

There is no reason to believe otherwise besides just wanting to ride the I hate Ollie and D&D circlejerk.

Where is the build-up to Jon marching on Winterfell, though? He hasn't attempted to do anything against the Boltons and I'm pretty sure the show didn't even bring up the 'if Stannis is at the Wall that means Jon is against the throne' angle.

I guess Sansa could send a raven to the Wall but having Jon immediately rush to her aid would be inconsistent the character that the show-runners have made him out to be. He hasn't been involved in the politics of the north at all to this point.

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Just tough to give them the benefit of the doubt with their 'creative' additions featuring rape, mindless sexual cliches, and rape

I'm just going to quote you:

Well, thanks for that used diaper

Rape is part of the story, they did pay for the right to bring it to screen, the medium doesn't allow for every character and every plot to be used, they need to combine plots and WE have to get past changes we do not like.

They seem to be bringing Sansa along fine and to me ,at least not sacrificing her agency for Theons.

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The two possibilities are not mutually exclusive. I think the point was just that its too soon for Jons Caesar moment to happen this season, but the show has clearly set Olly up to be the Brutus

Also, how do you "ride" a circle jerk?

Of course they're mutually exclusive. Jon's assassination is important because the watch has completely turned on him, not because only one boy has. It's not too early, Thorne and Co. hate him and the entire hall of brothers was outwardly booing him for suggesting they allow Wildlings through their gates. Once he suggests to meddle in the affairs of the realm him men will have had enough. It holds no weight to just have 1 angsty kid stab him.

About the same way you meaninglessly debate semantics while clearly understand the point trying to be made.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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This episode was truly amazing. For the first time in a long time, I not only cared about Jon Snow, I cheered when he fought. I actually CARED about him. And when that WW stared him down with that "You can run, but you can't hide" look it was just fantastic.

This has got to be hands down the best battle sequence of the entire series.

Also, so glad there was a reason for putting Sansa through everything. It had not occurred to me that putting her in Ramsay's hands meant she'd finally find out her little brothers are

alive.

Cersei licking floor water was kind of awesome but sad, hopefully she will finally realize she has no way out of this one.

Dany & Tyrion were fun to watch together, but Jorah was painful. He needs to give it up already. It was nice seeing Tyrion give Dany so much needed "Um no, that's not how that's going to work" counselling, and very nice to see Dany stop him from drinking too much.

Sad about NotVal but can't have everything I guess.

WunWun was AWESOME!

But seriously, that "Come at me Crow" moment was so great. I had to watch the episode twice because I was still reveling in how fantastic Hardhome was.

The show had so far failed to convey the sense of urgency that the book has at this point regarding the Others, or the desperation on the part of the wildlings. Like, how did Tormund even know they were at Hardhome? It wasn't a place they'd have gone as a natural rally point, and he would have no way of knowing what befell them after the battle.

Buuuuut one battle scene solved everything. Now its a lot more plausible that Jon would try to convince his brother to accept the wildlings who just tried to kill them, we see the desperation that pushes the wildlings to accept the plan. It really drove home the threat posed and the urgency of Jon's mission.

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what if Ramsay actually captures Mel ? Could be how she walks the wall of WF and ends up seeing the Flayed Man banners on the floor ..

This would go well of her reading an event but the interpretation is wrong, she's a captive and possible victim.

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Could be a red herring.

My guess is she is sent on her first assasination assignment, encounters Trant in the process and rather than doing what she is told she kills Trant instead. Jaquen then punishes Arya by making her drink the milk, /end of her season.

I don't think they're going to do the whole Rocky-training-montage with her. I wouldn't be surprised if she is done with the faceless men by the first two episodes of next season.

I think there's a possibility that she could take down Trant this season. I think it she does, she lies about doing it and gets away with it because she masters lying. If she doesn't do it, she'll do it next year and it will be her ticket our of Braavos.

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Of course they're mutually exclusive. Jon's assassination is important because the watch has completely turned on him, not because only one boy has. It's not too early, Thorne and Co. hate him and the entire hall of brothers was outwardly booing him for suggesting they allow Wildlings through their gates. Once he suggests to meddle in the affairs of the realm him men will have had enough. It holds no weight to just have 1 angsty kid stab him.

About the same way you meaninglessly debate semantics while clearly understand the point trying to be made.

When you aggressively miss the point, you make me wonder why I'm even crediting you with a response.

I said: too early for Jons assassination,not enough setup, but looks like Olly's gonna do it

Another poster said: Looks like Olly's gonna stab him but I agree its too soon for Jons assassination, maybe he'll just go solo and it won't be "the moment"

You said: OMG GUYS THEY CANT NOT HAVE JONS ASSINATION YOU IDIOTS NOW IM GONNA BUTCHER A METAPHOR AND BE A DICK

There's no debate, over "semantics" or anything else, just a clarification on my part, for someone who obviously doesn't understand a whole lot, and a request for clarification from me for your absurd and futile attempt at trollish wit.

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