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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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The show had so far failed to convey the sense of urgency that the book has at this point regarding the Others, or the desperation on the part of the wildlings. Like, how did Tormund even know they were at Hardhome? It wasn't a place they'd have gone as a natural rally point, and he would have no way of knowing what befell them after the battle.

Buuuuut one battle scene solved everything. Now its a lot more plausible that Jon would try to convince his brother to accept the wildlings who just tried to kill them, we see the desperation that pushes the wildlings to accept the plan. It really drove home the threat posed and the urgency of Jon's mission.

Could not agree more :)

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Wow what an episode.


I'm now happy that they slashed the Dorne fight scene budget and got everything they could out of the Hardhome scene.


Still not sure:


a. Why the Others have waited until now to do this, when they could have done it for at least a year (I suppose it has to do with the onset and deepening of winter),


b. Why they didn't just run out into the water and attack Jon & Co. (I've never heard of a wight/Other aversion to water).



But I certainly won't let that detract from my enjoyment. I loved everything about this episode. And it's a different type of effectiveness than the book, which was also great due to the lack of 100% clarity of what actually happened at Hardhome.


Similar to the lack of concrete information available from Loras storming Dragonstone (did he even really attack? Did he get injured? Is he fine and hiding out somewhere?) a lot of the effectiveness of the 5th book is showing various characters (Cersei/Jon/Dany) operating with less than optimal intelligence. I love both versions.


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I think this is too historical a view, since the story isn't going to adhere to our inferences about the history of this fake world. There's a reason it's all so vague.

I think the story of Azor Ahai is as much an origin myth about the invention of Valyrian steel as anything. And, unless I'm remembering the legend wrong - it has been a couple of years - I think it's significant that Jon, in that battle scene, tried two weapons against the WW, which both shattered, before finding Longclaw. Didn't the first two swords AA made shatter, then the third was Lightbringer? Maybe I'm remembering that wrong, but I thought that sequence might have been a nod to that myth for the benefit of the readers.

The first one was necessary to show that ordinary steel breaks. But you are probably right about the second.

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When Game of Thrones shifts to its magical and supernatural aspects, it just puts to shame all other human things we see. Shit, the Hardhome sequence, white walkers, wights, freaking Valyrian Steel pwning that White Walker (his facial expression when he didn't freeze Jon's sword was priceless).



For real thought, when we got Jon and his followers vs the Others, who the hell needs political intriguem shit. Just add dragons to the fight and we could have just a season of Jon + Dragons vs Others and I'd be happy.


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I thought she was doing it for revenge.

It's revenge, she probably thought she could turn Ramsy based on LF info, realizes she can't wants to find a way out, betrayed by Theon, picks up a weapon for later, learns that her brothers are alive; rethinks her motives and revenge is part of it destroy the Boltons from inside; but now she knows Jon, Rickon and Bran are alive and she may stay inside try to turn Theon into hooded man or get Brienne and Pod in to do it.

Even if it means her life is sacrificed or forfeited, she will restore House Stark.

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so in the last 2 eps, Sansa found out about Jon and Bran and Rickon. what's next ? Benjen will be the hooded man, and he'll walk past her in the hall and wink

Danny is cool with Tyrion working with Varys and arriving into her city, knowing Varys tried to have her killed? and it's all good ? :dunno:

I think Benjen is either a wight or he's with the Umbers.

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What an amazing episode! Just need Daznak to blow minds, LSH to appear and Stannis to die and it will be the best season yet!


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I don't think conflict will come up actually because by the time such a thing happens I think the whole White Walkers thing will be in effect, and Dany will know more of who the Starks are (including and especially Sansa... and likely Ned) from Tyrion, so Dany won't be so quick to want to take them out.

I think the point of the Arya/Thin Man set-up and the why of them was all explained in the scene between A Man and the Waif. They basically foreshadowed that Arya's not ready for this when the Waif said she wasn't and A Man said 'eh, the Many-Faced God cares or doesn't, whatevs! He has his plans.' So Arya is being sent on this mission not because she's ready or not but because the Many-Faced God has his reasons... which, of course, we imagine has to do with Sir Meryn Trant and what choice she'll make.

I didn't see it that way at all. I don't think claims or the heir to Winterfell was on her mind at all. I saw a dawning joy beginning to bloom on her face at the realization that her brothers were actually ALIVE! It was a beautiful moment, probably my favorite Sansa moment yet.

Just like the look on her face watching Ramsy's reaction to the Roose and Walda news.

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I think Benjen is either a wight or he's with the Umbers.

I think it has to be something supernatural, so Umbers are out and more "special" than just becoming a wight. I always thought his oath before the Old Gods made him different/more valuable to the Others compared to other men of Night's Watch, but Jon took the same oath and they would've killed him if not for Longclaw...

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Does anyone else think that Sansa will task Brienne with finding Bran and Rickon now that she knows they are alive?

Me

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Jon is going to do 2 things before this season ends:

Send Sam and Gilly to Oldtown now that Maester Aemon is gone

Get stabbed by Olly, sans conspiracy from the rest of the NW members.

I don't really see a coordinated assissination attempt against Jon. My guess is that Olly just walks up to him and stabs him, and maybe that emboldens some of Jon's enemies to do the same.

This season hasn't shown Jon making tons of plans or the NW increasing resistance to them.

While I agree they haven't done a huge amount in in terms of giving the NW a reason to turn, they've done enough with Alliser that he has to be involved.

My prediction: Alliser tries to lead a peaceful coup, and in the resulting stand-off, just as Alliser is about to back down Olly takes out Jon with an arrow (not a knife - the arrow makes more sense from storytelling perspective given Olly killed Ygritte and Jon gave mercy to Mance that way).

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What an amazing episode! Just need Daznak to blow minds, LSH to appear and Stannis to die and it will be the best season yet!

Ha! Please, if that no-talent Dany dies then I'll forever devote myself to this show and D&D. And, Stannis won't die. His along with most of the Northern characters stories will end ambiguously

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I think Benjen is either a wight or he's with the Umbers.

I think it has to be something supernatural, so Umbers are out and more "special" than just becoming a wight. I always thought his oath before the Old Gods made him different/more valuable to the Others compared to other men of Night's Watch, but Jon took the same oath and they would've killed him if not for Longclaw...

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Ha! Please, if that no-talent Dany dies then I'll forever devote myself to this show and D&D. And, Stannis won't die. His along with most of the Northern characters stories will end ambiguously

I think it is leading to Brienne ending him :drunk: .

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I'm not usually critical if mistakes by the showrunners but word of Maester Aemon's death apparently already received by Tyrion in Mereen? He told Dany she is the "last living Targareyen". Strange considering he met Aemon and got on rather well with him. A history buff like Tyrion isn't likely to forget mentioning someone like Aemon Targareyen especially considering he spent time with him

:agree:

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I think it is leading to Brienne ending him :drunk: .

I know she's a better fighter than him. At least one on one, but there's no way he would be unguarded enough for her to get to him. And with Ramsey and his twenty men, that is so dumb, Stannis has thousands and D&D wants us to think it's possible for 20 men to in any way affect Stannis. So dumb

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I know she's a better fighter than him. At least one on one, but there's no way he would be unguarded enough for her to get to him. And with Ramsey and his twenty men, that is so dumb, Stannis has thousands and D&D wants us to think it's possible for 20 men to in any way affect Stannis. So dumb

I guess it is Ramsey's turf. I wouldn't mind Ramsey killing him instead. I just need Mel to get to Jon. Stannis served his purpose and now his story is over. Next 2 seasons have so much to finish off and there just isn't screen time for minor characters so they need to trim the fat this season or at least early next season.

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I guess it is Ramsey's turf. I wouldn't mind Ramsey killing him instead. I just need Mel to get to Jon. Stannis served his purpose and now his story is over. Next 2 seasons have so much to finish off and there just isn't screen time for minor characters so they need to trim the fat this season or at least early next season.

The thing about killing Stannis off or killing him and Shireen off is that we lose Davos, a very beloved character, and we lose Selyse... not so loved. Either way, eliminating him now will leave us with a North controlled by the Boltons forever and ever, with Sansa getting daily rapings, and leaving no hope for any Starks to ever get any real power. I like Stannis and Davos too much for them to be killed off and replaced their screen time with those Sandflakes

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