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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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Oh my sweet summer child. Dany will succumb to madness just as her father before her, it is known.

Seemingly more obvious every episode that's where she is going but think we will know for sure next season.

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So what does one do after breaking the wheel? Reinventing the wheel. And if Dany won't, her successor someday will, be it sooner or much later depending on for how long she'll reign. And a new number of houses will grow from the ground like mushrooms in a damp cellar, each and everyone of those mushrooms no less rotten than the previous batch.


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So, don't know whether someone has said it already (though someone probably already did):



What about the huge foreshadowing of the conversation between Olly and Sam? All talking about how Jon is friends with the ones who slaughtered his family, Sam saying sometimes you need to take a hard decision which doesn't seem to be the right thing? I mean, it was almost as if they were screaming "I AM GOING TO KILL JON SNOW."



As if that weren't clear already.


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Lots of posts regarding this but what Tyrion actually said was that there is no one with Dany's name left to support her and that is very true wheather Aemon is alive or not. Aemon is in the night's watch and they don't envolve themselves with politics so Aemon would not be in a situation to support Dany, So clearly this was not a mistake in the show, what they wrote Tyrion to say was the truth as Tyrion knows it. I don't mind critisism on the show when there's a reason for it but wanted to point this out 'cos I thought that a lot of people might have missed what Tyrion actually said.

Very nice catch, thanks.

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Seemingly more obvious every episode that's where she is going but think we will know for sure next season.

Prepare to be disappointed.

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Very solid episode.

My boyfriend has been more engaged for the first time in probably two seasons.

And this is coming from a book snob.

My only gripe about Hardhome was the fact that the whites have turned into Resident Evil zombies. Everything else had me on the edge of my seat. And kudos to the show for making me actually worry about Jon Snow even though he's listed in the episode descriptions for 9 and 10.

What's the deal with everyone thinking the White Walkers are former Starks? Where is that coming from?

A lot of hints that the NK is a Stark. 13th LC in the Night's watch, it's said he was a great warrior in The Time of Heroes, right after the Wall was built.

One of the stories that Old Nan used to tell, referred to him as a Stark...said his name was Brandon as well...

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A lot of hints that the NK is a Stark. 13th LC in the Night's watch, it's said he was a great warrior in The Time of Heroes, right after the Wall was built.

One of the stories that Old Nan used to tell, referred to him as a Stark...said his name was Brandon as well...

I like to think that the NK is a Stark also. I could put on my tinfoil hat and say that maybe every few hundred years, a Stark must take the black and offer himself as a new Night's King while getting 'lost' during a ranging. Winter is Coming, a good house motto to not forget what happens if you don't stick to your end of the bargain.

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I agree that Selmy maybe should've mentioned him but you are really putting the wrong words in Tyrion's mouth here, he did not at any point say that Dany is the last of her name just talked about there not being anyone in her name lef to support her and that is very true. Is it not?

And it is a silly quibble to make because we should assume Tyrion has been thinking very carefully about what he will say to Danny since he began the journey with Varys.

He may not have known who Aemon was, it is not shown that he does. If he does know, he may not care to reveal this to Danny at this point.

But even so, what he says is there is nobody with her name. Aemon is not a Targarean, he is a Maester. What Tyrion said is true whether Aemon is alive or not.

Tyrion has clearly put a lot of thought into every word he says. He does not immediately commit to support her for a start, nor does he insist she takes his advice. Instead he states needs that she knows she has and his credentials to fill them.

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Seemingly more obvious every episode that's where she is going but think we will know for sure next season.

Well in this episode she was quite calm and open-minded. If she was increasingly becoming more like Aerys she'd have had Tyrion killed or at least imprisoned or at least killed Jorah. I've never understood why people think Dany is going to go all mad King, she's already lost everything once and hit rock bottom yet retained her sanity.

And it is a silly quibble to make because we should assume Tyrion has been thinking very carefully about what he will say to Danny since he began the journey with Varys.

He may not have known who Aemon was, it is not shown that he does. If he does know, he may not care to reveal this to Danny at this point.

But even so, what he says is there is nobody with her name. Aemon is not a Targarean, he is a Maester. What Tyrion said is true whether Aemon is alive or not.

Tyrion has clearly put a lot of thought into every word he says. He does not immediately commit to support her for a start, nor does he insist she takes his advice. Instead he states needs that she knows she has and his credentials to fill them.

Aemon isn't even really officially a Targaryen anymore since Maesters give up their family names to serve, not to mention he's a NW man anyways.

Edited by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

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I agree that Selmy maybe should've mentioned him but you are really putting the wrong words in Tyrion's mouth here, he did not at any point say that Dany is the last of her name just talked about there not being anyone in her name lef to support her and that is very true. Is it not?

True, so true! I got your point, once I got to it...

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Having just watched the episode again, it's clearly understandable why episodes 1-6 aren't exactly mind-blowing. I can imagine most of the budget went on filming this episode and probably 9 and 10 too. The episode was absolutely brilliant from start to finish!



Loved the Tyrion and Dany scenes, and I'm now 90% on board with A+J=T theory! I also think this is a spoiler for the upcoming books in the fact that Tyrion will advise her on her invasion of Westeros and eventually introduce her to Jon (3 heads!!)



Lena Headey is arguably the best actor in the series, the way she portrays Cersei is awesome. I think the walk will be one of the final scenes in E10. Nice to see Kevan has come back too, although I fully expect him to die by the end of the season.



If there was an award for most improved actor/actress then it deserves to go to Sophie Turner. I enjoy watching her scenes now, I fully expect this revelation from Theon to be her make or break moment.



And now to Hardhome......just WOW. Everything about it was fantastic, even the slightly walking dead-ish wights! The Night's King is absolute home run Stark in my opinion.



RE: the criticism for D+D. Personally, it's evident to me that they know what they're doing. Through 40 episodes I could probably name you 3/4 bad episodes which is not something I can say for nearly any other TV show. Yes, this season has been a bit slow and some of the episodes I watched haven't been great in my opinion, but when you compare it to the previous 4 seasons then they've set an incredibly high bar. I can't imagine they'd include anything in this season that won't be relevant later on (yes, that includes Dorne). I think they've done an incredible job bringing one of my favourite book series to the small screen!


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I think it's because, his peers on the show Richard Madden and Alfie Allen are far superior in acting chops to Kit. although, I will admit Kit has improved a bit each season

Those 2 actors have gotten much better material than Kit and it's not even close.

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Well Valyrian steel = dragonglass against the Others..Apparently...



It wasn't clear until now in books


Edited by Nanaki

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You're getting too technical here. The real issue is if Tyrion mentioned Aemon it would lead to confusion among unsullied/casual viewers.

The majority of viewers don't know the exact relation between Aemon and Dany, they don't know Aemon's backstory, all they know is they watched him die last episode. To come back the very next episode and talk of him as Dany's "last living relative" would make unsullied/casuals think "wait... didn't he just die last week, or are they talking about someone else?"

It was easier/makes more sense just not to mention him, the show asks too much of casual viewers already with the number of secondary and tertiary characters it mentions.

True, I was being a bit technical... that's why I said "in an ideal world"... and this is a sullied forum, "technically" ;)

Katjushka already pointed out that I and the original poster didn't listen carefully enough. Tyrion actually said "no one to support you" or something to that effect, which makes a lot of sense, because 1. it's true, 2. it's a nod to Aemon who we saw dead last week.

Otherwise my point would have been exactly yours: why even state the obvious?

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Oh thank the gods, finally an episode that actually got our attention this season. I absolutely loved the Hardhome sequence. Creepy as all hell, movie-quality, and I actually feared for everyone there. I liked the Night's King much better this time round, he was more believeable in this context. Last season, after seeing the normal white walker, the NK kinda looked weird and out-of-place by comparison, some sort of cartoony character. But he looked in place here and he was really intimidating. I loved Tormund's delivery in the hut, more so than Jon. Like others, I'm a little disappointed that the wildling woman died, thought she would be a good Val replacement. Even without a "Val", we should still have at least one spearwife or Mother Mole figure. My only complaint where the action is concerned is it was a little difficult to tell everyone apart during the fighting. I ended up not being able to tell who was a living person and who was a dead wight. I don't know if it was the dark lighting or what, but I couldn't really tell who was winning in the flashes of fights we saw. But, that's just a little thing... it was overwhelmingly awesome regardless, and I got chills when we saw the WW on the hill and looking at Jon. I feared for him so much during that haha.



The rest of the episode was fine, though a little lackluster looking back after coming off the high of the Hardhome sequence. Like others said, seeing the "real threat" in action, makes all the other political quibbling just seem rather pointless. Which is of course kinda the point of the WW threat, but I don't think they want us to lose interest in the politics just yet. The Sansa/Theon scene was really emotional, I liked that one a lot. Arya was a little "meh" for me. She's been rather meh all season. I really wanted to like her Braavos scenes, but there's just something about them, I can't quite put my finger on it, that's just making it all rather boring. To me, the scenes are lacking some sort of creepiness that should be present. A more mystical, foreboding quality. I'd like if they tweaked the atmosphere so that we can really realize that this is a freakin death/assassin cult and it should be unsettling for us to see Arya want to be apart of them, but rather it just seems rather dull. Which is a shame. Maybe it will change pace a little in the future, but at the moment, I feel like her time with the FM should be more grey morally and more creepy and mystical.



Totally confused about Jorah. Don't know why he wants to fight in the pits. How will that win him back in Dany's good graces? Unless he's just depressed and suicidal and desperate at this point.



And no Dorne this episode. *sigh of relief*



Oh, and I'm really hoping the whole Olly thing is just a distraction. I really don't want Olly to be the one to stab Jon. I couldn't stand all the cheesy camera shots of Olly, they really are smashing our brains out by how many times they've hit us over the head with it. It's not so much that Olly is an annoying character, but that if he's the one they focus on stabbing Jon, then it's no longer "For the Watch", but just "For my mum and daddy", which totally loses the meaning of the stabbing, but rather just makes Jon's "death" rather meaningless to me. The reasons behind For the Watch actually made sense, we saw all throughout the book how Jon wasn't communicating well with the other brothers, and their reasoning was understandable, which made it more complex. There's no reason for anyone to even say "for the watch" if it's Olly doing it.


Edited by the silver queen

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I might need my eyes tested but at about 48 in Jon looks up at the 4 horsemen and then down at the big hut. There are wights crawling all over it but on the right side of the hut is what looks like a black spider crawling up to the top. It's a different colour to the rest of the wights. And crawls differently. Perhaps they ran out of budget to include ice spiders this time? Or perhaps I should stop imagining things and go get that eye test.


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A few thoughts...



Everyone who is asking who the guy in the boat is... I think it's pretty obvious. It's Booker Dewitt. He doesn't row. (hopefully a few of you will get this)



The two major winks to the book reading audience... "he always comes back" and the cat that runs by Arya as she tells her story. The purpose of the first seems obvious. I think the purpose of the second is for the writers to tell the audience that they know what the name should be but they changed it for a reason. What could that reason be? I'm hoping (perhaps hopelessly) that that the avoidance of the name "Cat" along with the title of the last episode, "Mother Mercy", may indicate the return of a character we have all been waiting for by the end of the season. This ship has probably sailed but maybe...just maybe...



Idea on the White Walker's swimming ability... when the walker that Jon kills walks into the tent the fire does seem to part for him. On re-watch I noticed that he seemed to emanate a mist of cold that pushed the fire away. Perhaps if they entered the water the water would freeze around them making entering the water a bad idea. Why he didn't send all the zombies in remains unclear. Perhaps without flesh they would just sink... but some still have flesh soooo....



"Wun Wun...to the sea!" - Loved this and everything about Wun Wun.



Anyone notice the slow, symphonic version of Castamere playing while Cersi sucked water off the floor - brilliant.



Moving forward with Arya... I think the desire or the attempt to kill Trant will be what forces her to leave the Faceless Men. Arya would want to kill Trant. No one would not.



Everyone has the right to spend their time as they please but why waste your time with something you claim to hate. To paraphrase Henry Rollins... when you hate something you give it to much of yourself. Don't hate it just leave it alone. It's like if someone wants to hand you a giant pile of crap... you don't have to take it.



The books are great. The show is great too. They are different mediums and the stories must be told in different ways. The writers have made some questionable decisions (too much rape...Valyrian stone???) but those are no more questionable than GRRM deciding to over-expand the story and bring in entirely new characters and plotlines. There is no perfect storytelling (Patrick Rothfuss maybe...) but we are in a great time for entertainment. It would be nice if folks could just relax and enjoy.



This might have been my favorite ep pf the series.




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I dont remember fully, but did Osha talk about hiding at Last Hearth, or was she going to Skagos, like the books? I would believe for the shows sake, Davis would take Sansa with him to the closest possible place for Rickon to be, like maybe Osha backpedaled to stay close to news of what's going on and they're at the Hearth for Davos and Sansa to find...besides, if Davos goes on his own how would he recognize Rickon?

It was Last Hearth. When Bran sends them away, she tells Rickon that they're going to see the Umbers, who are "great warriors" (or something to that effect)

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