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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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Not sure what people are complaining about. Kit's been crushing it this season compared to his last few, if you read any of the major critics out there that's the consensus. Considering the limitation of her dialogue, Emilia as well. If you can't enjoy the bantering of her and Tyrion then you're missing out.

Now regarding facial acting, if you want to see the queen of it, literally, watch Lena's facial expressions in the scene where Tommen is bemoaning Marg. You see a flood of emotions roll through her face over just several seconds. Beautiful stuff.

Jon Snow's my favorite character, but up until the past two seasons, I haven't really thought much of Kit's acting.

Last season he was on the upturn, and this season he's absolutely killing it. He's very, very far from what he was in season one (where it seemed that he could never close his mouth and he had a constant expression of confusion).

While I enjoy Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, Littlefinger and the other more 'cerebral' characters, I think Jon Snow adds a much needed element of stoicism and internal turmoil to balance out the more open emotions of the other characters. It creates a nice balance and contrast.

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Little late to the discussion but snarked on the message board enough without posting my sentiments.



Did anyone get super excited having Tyrion and Dany in the same room together? Finally two of my favorite characters in the books/show in a position of relevance to actually do something in the world. Loved it!



Cersei getting her well deserved kick in the butt... Honestly I didn't enjoy it as much in the book as I do in the show... I feel more satisfaction seeing it and watching Lena's exceptional portrayal performed on screen. Still think they are rushing her prison scenes and the impending WoS.



Arya, who doesn't get excited with her character finally able to start training and becoming of use to this nasty cold world.



Lastly Hardhome... I thoroughly enjoyed it in almost every sense although the dread factor was missing something especially the fight sequence with Jon vs WW. WW easily dispatches the Thenn chieftain but ends up powder punching Jon just about everywhere in the tent lol. Yeah I know he has to live until such an event but come on...



On another note the NK does have immense power but compare this to something his polar opposite will have at their disposal (IE Dany's dragons.) I think they have to up the anty considerably if NK has any chance of completely destroying all life as IT wants to. I just don't see mass undead doing anything spectacular unless he has undead giants or other creatures to swarm into the fray.

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The scene where Jon almost stabbed Edd with LC, Jon says the dragon glass bag Edd tells him forget it we got to get out of here, then comes the lemming Wights off the mountain.

It's clear Jon thought the bag was still in there -- though not clear whether it was because he saw it in there or because he didn't see anybody take it out. Specifically, there had been some hope earlier in the pages that Wun Wun grabbed it on his way out without telling anyone.

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Regarding why the Wildlings and NW don't use fire to kill the wrights & White Walkers...
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that their fires seemed to die when the White Walkers appeared. I happened to just find the quote about that from the book.

"some nights our fires just seemed to shrivel up and die" [when the Others were encroaching] - Tormund answering Jon's questions about the Others as the wildings pass through the Wall.

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Sorry if this has been posted earlier in the thread, but up until this episode I've always wondered why the WW haven't attacked the wall yet. I used to figure it was just a plotting issue imposed by the author. Now it has clicked into place for me I think.



After this episode, I'm thinking that the WW have been chasing the wildlings across the north for the last few years (decades? since the last dragon died?) trying to corner them so they could swell their numbers.



Mance kept that from happening for years through his leadership of the clans, but everything fell apart after attack on the wall and Stannis' intervention. At Hardhome, the WW finally achieved their objective, increasing their numbers by 10s of thousands and now will be ready to march South.



On the other hand, had Stannis not intervened and the wildings gotten to the south, the WW may never have had the numbers necessary to push south.



Is this sound reasoning or am I missing something?


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It's clear Jon thought the bag was still in there -- though not clear whether it was because he saw it in there or because he didn't see anybody take it out. Specifically, there had been some hope earlier in the pages that Wun Wun grabbed it on his way out without telling anyone.

I thought they showed the dragon glass after Wun wun did his best impression of the Kool-Aid man.

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Sorry if this has been posted earlier in the thread, but up until this episode I've always wondered why the WW haven't attacked the wall yet. I used to figure it was just a plotting issue imposed by the author. Now it has clicked into place for me I think.

After this episode, I'm thinking that the WW have been chasing the wildlings across the north for the last few years (decades? since the last dragon died?) trying to corner them so they could swell their numbers.

Mance kept that from happening for years through his leadership of the clans, but everything fell apart after attack on the wall and Stannis' intervention. At Hardhome, the WW finally achieved their objective, increasing their numbers by 10s of thousands and now will be ready to march South.

On the other hand, had Stannis not intervened and the wildings gotten to the south, the WW may never have had the numbers necessary to push south.

Is this sound reasoning or am I missing something?

I think that the wildlings were more "cornered" surrounded by land and snow, not next to the ocean which is the only reasonable escape for scores of people. If they were waiting to corner them they had plenty of time to do so before Jon and the ships got there.

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Jon Snow's my favorite character, but up until the past two seasons, I haven't really thought much of Kit's acting.

Last season he was on the upturn, and this season he's absolutely killing it. He's very, very far from what he was in season one (where it seemed that he could never close his mouth and he had a constant expression of confusion).

While I enjoy Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, Littlefinger and the other more 'cerebral' characters, I think Jon Snow adds a much needed element of stoicism and internal turmoil to balance out the more open emotions of the other characters. It creates a nice balance and contrast.

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Going by this they filmed a scene with one of the boats toppling over, which we didn't get to see either. I believe this stunt was also mentioned in a video several weeks back.


Edited by Carne

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Further thoughts:

- That "break the wheel" line. It just doesn't work. Partly, that's due to it being needlessly dramatic in a way to try and sell Dany as "hardcore," but the context of the line is that she's going to do for Westeros what she did for the slaves she freed. The situations aren't remotely comparable. Dany might not understand this, but Tyrion does, and the writers should.

- For the first three seasons (well, two-and-a-half), Dany received very good material. But over the past few seasons, she's increasingly become the least interesting thing in what is supposed to be her plotline. Some of that is due to her not having much action to do (not battle-type action, physical business to do in her scenes action), some of that is due to needless sub-plots added in, and some of that is due to her getting bad dialogue. Whatever the cause, however, it's a real problem if one of the main characters is the dullest element at her location.

Are we watching the same show?!? Did you read the books? Lol, Daenerys IS HARDCORE! Did I miss someone else walking into a funeral pyre??

Edited by PyromancersPiss

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Jon Snow's my favorite character, but up until the past two seasons, I haven't really thought much of Kit's acting.

Last season he was on the upturn, and this season he's absolutely killing it. He's very, very far from what he was in season one (where it seemed that he could never close his mouth and he had a constant expression of confusion).

While I enjoy Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, Littlefinger and the other more 'cerebral' characters, I think Jon Snow adds a much needed element of stoicism and internal turmoil to balance out the more open emotions of the other characters. It creates a nice balance and contrast.

Kit still can't close his mouth lol. And I don't think he's "killing it" at all, but he still has improved. Mostly because he's using a deeper Batman voice.

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Apologies if this has already been addressed but I'm shocked I haven't seen anyone else intrigued by Sansa's alternate storyline...


Let me explain... Ok so, we all know where ADWD left off with her. But, what if she ends up in WF in the books after all. GRRM has recently commented about the contrasts from book to show, but I believe this to be BS. He doesn't want to give away any unnecessary spoilers for TWOW and I compare this to his recent statements about Smaug being deadlier than HIS dragons. Again, I call BS. Example: Drogon-fighting pits-nuff said...


Anyhow, I reference the prophecies of The Ghost of High Heart.


And I ask all of you... Who's a bigger SAVAGE GIANT (GIANT SAVAGE) than Ramsay Bolton?


GRRM also stated in his recent Not A Blog posting that sometimes butterflies grow into dragons... Was he speaking in code?


Will Sansa kill the bastard of bolton?


During winter I think WF is a pretty good candidate for a "Castle made of snow"


Edited by PyromancersPiss

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SO END OUR FOES



I thought the Braavos portion was missplaced. It should have been shoved into, "The Gift." It felt dry and out of place in this episode. Malaise Williams is starting to look more mature. She is going to be a very attractive woman in time.



The Cersei scenes were well done but didn't move me. In the book she is happy to see Qyburn here it seems, "matter of fact."



Jorah's scene was straight corny. Right out of a, "Lifetime" movie. I will fight for my love.



OUR BLADES ARE SHARP



Ramsay's scene was good, he's plotting a special forces mission to take out Stannis. I wonder how that will play out. It reminds me of the one Asha/Yara planned when rescuing Theon, and we know how that went.



Good scene with Reek/Theon and Sansa. Sophie Turner has grown as an actress and Alfie Allen is remarkable once again. Also, good to see Roose.



Olly and Sam's scene was good. Good reasoning to Olly. I wonder if his dad knows he's at The Wall? (The Missing tease).



I loved seeing Dinklage with Clarke. Dinklage just owned her in the second scene. He out acted her by light years. "I am going to break the wheel." A good line but Dinklage is just so superb, he is Tyrion Lannister.



Hardome was brilliant. Good to see Thenns again, the desperate situation seeing Jon first fight agains the Thenns, to see them both fight for survival together.



It is good to get away from the fluff of the chase of power. The real reality is that Death Marches on the entire Continent of Westeros . . and it doesn't matter who you are, you better be ready when they come because the army of the dead is growing and they are coming.



I loved seeing The Great Other aka The Night's King. More Great Other and less junk!


We could write all day and night about the death and symbolism in the Hardhome battle. . . just Benioff and Weiss and their best.


Edited by ServantOnIce

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And then there's Jon Targaryen's storyline...


Ok, they're obviously building up to Olly making an attempt on Jon's life. But, will he succeed? I felt a little foreboding oozing out of the scene between Olly and Sam. Will Sam save the LC from getting shanked by Olly/NW elders?


I think it's a high possibility. My reasoning is simple. In ADWD they're still talking about the Hardhome mission, and Jon is about to go after the bastard. I'm wondering if they will cut the whole Jon cliffhanger. I think with all the cuts and changes they've made so far because of time restraints it kinda makes sense. But honestly, I give it 50/50 chances.


But then again, GRRM stated the books and show are intended to end in the same way. (for the most part, lol)


Edited by PyromancersPiss

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The WWs would have several reasons to wait.



First, they can't cross the wall due to magical incantations. So they have to bring the wall down to go South (expect that the last episode of the penultimate season).



Second, their wights are dead meat and decay over time. So to be useful soldiers they need to be fresh(ish) meat. Killing too many, too soon does not help the WWs end.



Third, they need live humans to make new recruits for them.


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Well, it would be rather nice if some people round here would accept the possibility that the showrunners might be cleverer than they are and know what they are doing, it being their job after all.

One of the things everyone learns very quickly at MIT is that there are people at MIT that are much smarter than they are. If you are very very lucky you discover that even though there are folk who are smarter than you are in general, there are some areas in which you might be on a par with them and on a really good day exceed them.

D&D are actually very clever and they do seem to know what they are doing a lot better than the average poster here.

I get what you're saying. I come on these forums to discuss and read about ideas and theories. I don't know why so many people dedicate so much time to trying to rip things apart, and that goes for the books as well as the show. If I don't like what I'm watching, I change the channel or turn it off. Easy peasy.

Edited by Oneorobertsbastards

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And then there's Jon Targaryen's storyline...

Ok, they're obviously building up to Olly making an attempt on Jon's life. But, will he succeed? I felt a little foreboding oozing out of the scene between Olly and Sam. Will Sam save the LC from getting shanked by Olly/NW elders?

I think it's a high possibility. My reasoning is simple. In ADWD they're still talking about the Hardhome mission, and Jon is about to go after the bastard. I'm wondering if they will cut the whole Jon cliffhanger. I think with all the cuts and changes they've made so far because of time restraints it kinda makes sense. But honestly, I give it 50/50 chances.

But then again, GRRM stated the books and show are intended to end in the same way. (for the most part, lol)

Well at a meeting between audience and the stars a question was brought up, something about what Kit would like to see in his story line and he said I like to be a warg and one of the D's said season 6, in season 6, so I don't think they are removing that cliff hanger also episode 10 is suppose to break the Internet from one of the actors words.

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I get what you're saying. I come on these forums to discuss and read about ideas and theories. I don't know why so many people dedicate so much time to trying to rip things apart, and that goes for the books as well as the show. If I don't like what I'm watching, I change the channel or turn it off. Easy peasy.

Some folk seem to think that ripping things apart is a good way to show how clever they are and it really isn't. Especially when they are explaining all the plot holes in episodes that haven't been shown yet.

Some folk are even complaining about the zombies they were shown in the opening of episode one and book one.

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Very interesting to read many of you guys, some are getting seriously damaged by the tv show, you have to cool down a bit, it's a Tv show BASED on the book, we all know that and still we keep criticizing D&D. Of course there is a lot of weird stuff, bad staging, weird CGI, weird acting (don't forget that actors respond to director's direction, they don't really have there word in the editing room, they just give as much color as possible in every takes and then it's an artistic choice to keep that acting beat than the other one...an other part of the buisness;)) also sometimes there is bad writing for some characters but they are doing an honest job about it in my opinion, , we have no idea how hard and tough is this buisness (yes, sorry it's a buisness) they have to cut pieces off, a lot off it and change some things here and there. But it's also true that many times i had the feeling that they didn't know what they were doing, maybe they had a lot of production's problems to deal with, i don't know what happened and i don't defend them, i am sur they can improve, but maybe they are keeping the gold for the next seasons, they probably already have an idea about how they will end.



Anyway, i have a good feeling about the end of this season, the white walkers seems to be damn tough to fight with, i don't know why i have a feeling that they are not THE big threat, there is something behind there attitude, they don't kill to just kill and make their army bigger, the Night King seems to have a plan, i also though for a moment that the White Walker knight that Jon Snow killed was Uncle Benjen, that's why he didn't really tried to kill him, like he was trying to give him a chance to save himself by using that damn Valyrian sword to help him know about his magical power against the white walkers (i know sorry, weird though, it's very late out here.haha).


Edited by Prince_Snow

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