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[Book Spoilers] EP508 Discussion

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I wondered at that myself. When Dany stated that she knew what her father did, I was waiting for Tyrion to bring up how Rickard and Brandon Stark died...alas; maybe in a future conversation? He's a walking Westeros textbook, and she's been sheltered from the brutal truth of her father's actions. I'm still crossing my fingers that they'll have a Great House/Robert's Rebellion history lesson soon.

she says that Mad king earned his name

what else she needs to know ....i really dont understand this notion that dany needs to know every small details ...

GRRm is delaying about the reveal because he want it to happen at the specific time ...that said she is not the one to kill or hold grudges against the choldren

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Watched the episode again yesterday, with girlfriend somewhere else, so was not distracted... Found that it improved upon rewatching, also tried to pay attention to all the "terrible acting" of Dinklage and Clarke (yeah. Read the last page of R&R thread, those people are priceless, they are frothing in mouth for both Tyrion and Dany for NOT being overtly emotive and at the same time crap all over Sansa for being too emotive) and found their acting to be pitch perfect to the occasion, especially liked the oh-so-subtle way of Dany's expression drop when she heard Jorah is in love with her. Also her reaction to the "killing those devoted to you doesn't inspire devotion" line - she did just enough to convey that the message got in a massive oh-shit-way through while remaining composured outwardly. Subtlety is where acting is at. Of course, you can't have it at the R&R thread, they could be doing cartwheels there and the same 10 people would be complaining them doing cartwheels AND complaining them doing cartwheels WRONG.



Zombies were fine too, this time around.


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she says that Mad king earned his name

what else she needs to know ....i really dont understand this notion that dany needs to know every small details ...

GRRm is delaying about the reveal because he want it to happen at the specific time ...that said she is not the one to kill or hold grudges against the choldren

She needs to know because the Usurper Dogs Starks had a point in becoming the Usurper Dogs in the first place. She has a general idea of how things were but she needs to know every little detail of the ruling regimes in Westeros and how they interact and what their reasons are.

When she learns that her sweet daddy had the Stark family male heads burned alive and what grounds (or the lack of them) she might gain some well needed perspective in why that particular family turned on hers.

Edited by jacksonbrowne

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Watched the episode again yesterday, with girlfriend somewhere else, so was not distracted... Found that it improved upon rewatching, also tried to pay attention to all the "terrible acting" of Dinklage and Clarke (yeah. Read the last page of R&R thread, those people are priceless, they are frothing in mouth for both Tyrion and Dany for NOT being overtly emotive and at the same time crap all over Sansa for being too emotive) and found their acting to be pitch perfect to the occasion, especially liked the oh-so-subtle way of Dany's expression drop when she heard Jorah is in love with her. Also her reaction to the "killing those devoted to you doesn't inspire devotion" line - she did just enough to convey that the message got in a massive oh-shit-way through while remaining composured outwardly. Subtlety is where acting is at. Of course, you can't have it at the R&R thread, they could be doing cartwheels there and the same 10 people would be complaining them doing cartwheels AND complaining them doing cartwheels WRONG.

Zombies were fine too, this time around.

agreed add to those scenes you can see how much it hurts her that jorah didnt come clean when he had chance when tyrion asks did he had chance to come clean

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She needs to know because the Usurper Dogs Starks had a point in becoming the Usurper Dogs in the first place. She has a general idea of how things were but she needs to know every little detail of the ruling regimes in Westeros and how they interact and what their reasons are.

When she learns that her sweet daddy had the Stark family male heads burned alive and what grounds (or the lack of them) she might gain some well needed perspective in why that particular family turned on hers.

again she acknowledges that he has earned his name and The mad king was not a lie framed upon her father by the usurpers ...so she does know why they turned against her family and she does know that they had a point to rise against her father

what more she has to do or say i dont know

she spend the whole book of ADWD fearing that she may become the monster and mad like her father was ..

she does not blame them for the killing of his father ..she blames them for the killings of her brothers children which is completely reasonable

and all of them are dead now so what is the problem here ..she is not going to take grudge on the stark children for that ..if she was going to do that what better way to start with killing tyrion who is also a child of usurper dogs

blame the author for delaying the reveal not the character ...

Edited by Drogonthedread

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again she acknowledges that he has earned his name and The mad king was not a lie framed upon her father by the usurpers ...so she does know why they turned against her family and she does know that they had a point to rise against her father

what more she has to do or say i dont know

she spend the whole book of ADWD fearing that she may become the monster and mad like her father was ..

she does not blame them for the killing of his father ..she blames them for the killings of her brothers children which is completely reasonable

and all of them are dead now so what is the problem here ..she is not going to take grudge on the stark children for that ..if she was going to do that what better way to start with killing tyrion who is also a child of usurper dogs

blame the author for delaying the reveal not the character ...

She was contemplating it. My best bet is that for every possible ally there will be a contemplation of sorts when the time arrives.

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She was contemplating it. My best bet is that for every possible ally there will be a contemplation of sorts when the time arrives.

and why is that wrong if she was mad like her father she will not contemplate or take time to ask questions about him ..she would have ordered to kill him the moment she saw him

like she comes to know about his father and tyrions father when she has met him ...she will come to know about starks when she has converstion with them ..thats how story works ...you are not going to layout every small details on the first page and then proceed ...it need to progress step by step

tyrion also was contemplating whether she was worthy or not ...is completely fine to have doubts about people who you have just met and at the end what really matters what decision finally she had made which is what any rational person will do

Edited by Drogonthedread

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and why is that wrong if she was mad like her father she will not contemplate or take time to ask questions about him ..she would have ordered to kill him the moment she saw him

like she comes to know about his father and tyrions father when she has met him ...she will come to know about starks when she has converstion with them ..thats how story works ...you are not going to layout every small details on the first page and then proceed ...it need to progress step by step

tyrion also was contemplating whether she was worthy or not ...is completely fine to have doubts about people who you have just met and at the end what really matters what decision finally she had made which is what any rational person will do

and why is that wrong if she was mad like her father she will not contemplate or take time to ask questions about him ..she would have ordered to kill him the moment she saw him

like she comes to know about his father and tyrions father when she has met him ...she will come to know about starks when she has converstion with them ..thats how story works ...you are not going to layout every small details on the first page and then proceed ...it need to progress step by step

tyrion also was contemplating whether she was worthy or not ...is completely fine to have doubts about people who you have just met and at the end what really matters what decision finally she had made which is what any rational person will do

You do get, that by and large I'm agreeing with you, right? :)

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I actually think for a first timer, Sophie is nailing 98% of her character, everything up to this year has been primarily from Sansa's thoughts where Sophie had to use body language and facial expressions to convey her thoughts.

Emila's a bit flat for me on some scenes.

By the bolded logic, we should excuse the entire younger cast. I believe this was the first screen work for most of them.

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You do get, that by and large I'm agreeing with you, right? :)

haha yes i get it ...its actually i get annoyed with those people who wants her unlike other characters to know every small details even when she acknowledges that she knows things

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she says that Mad king earned his name

what else she needs to know ....i really dont understand this notion that dany needs to know every small details ...

GRRm is delaying about the reveal because he want it to happen at the specific time ...that said she is not the one to kill or hold grudges against the choldren

Dany knows that her father was deservedly named The Mad King. She just doesn't know that the Targaryen Dynasty was destroyed because of what he did to the Stark Lords, and what he wanted to do with the Baratheon and Arryn lineages. Aerys brought the Rebellion upon himself, yet she still believes that the others are Usurpers/Usurper's Dogs...that it's all their faults for her House being all but annihilated.

It isn't about giving her all the gory details, it's about having a different perspective when it comes to her family's reputation - how Targaryens are viewed by the populace. She'll need to be prepared for what will greet her when she finally does get to Westeros - unless the realm is waist deep in snow, she'll have to prove to the people that she's not her father. Especially if she has 3 dragons at her side. If Westeros is waist deep in snow, it won't matter one way or the other, as they'll probably kneel to anyone who can fight the WWs.

Edited by roxWolfox 🍁

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Dany knows that her father was deservedly named The Mad King. She just doesn't know that the Targaryen Dynasty was destroyed because of what he did to the Stark Lords, and what he wanted to do with the Baratheon and Arryn lineages. Aerys brought the Rebellion upon himself, yet she still believes that the others are Usurpers/Usurper's Dogs.

It isn't about giving her all the gory details, it's about having a different perspective when it comes to her family's reputation - how Targaryens are viewed by the populace. She'll need to be prepared for what will greet her when she finally does get to Westeros - unless the realm is waist deep in snow, she'll have to prove to the people that she's not her father. Especially if she has 3 dragons at her side. If Westeros is waist deep in snow, it won't matter one way or the other, as they'll probably kneel to anyone who can fight the WWs.

again she acknowledges that he has earned his name and The mad king was not a lie framed upon her father by the usurpers ...so she does know why they turned against her family and she does know that they had a point to rise against her father

and by acknowledging it she knows that they had the reason to raise against their king which means she no longer others are responsible for her family's demise ,...

and all those usurper's dogs are dead except for stannis what does that matter anymore she is not the one to hold grudges against the children

like i said if she was mad and wants revenge what better way to start killing tyrion ...

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again she acknowledges that he has earned his name and The mad king was not a lie framed upon her father by the usurpers ...so she does know why they turned against her family and she does know that they had a point to rise against her father

and by acknowledging it she knows that they had the reason to raise against their king which means she no longer others are responsible for her family's demise ,...

and all those usurper's dogs are dead except for stannis what does that matter anymore she is not the one to hold grudges against the children

like i said if she was mad and wants revenge what better way to start killing tyrion ...

I've never considered Dany mad. I have always believed she is far too kind/empathetic to be her father. But her Westeros lessons have been based on outright lies and some half-truths. Viserys romanticized the Rhaegar/Lyanna story, and Barriston told her of her fathers penchant for killing people with fire, as well as making Rhaegar out to be the best guy ever.

No-one has told her of who her father killed (Lyanna's father and brother), and that Lyanna was betrothed to Robert Baratheon, The Usurper. If I recall, the blame of the whole affair (Rhaegar running off with Lyanna) is placed solely on Elia Martell for not being woman enough to keep Rhaegar's interest. These little nuggets of information - though not important in the quest for the Iron Throne - are important if she wants to address the stigma of the Targaryen name in Westeros, and what led up to the Rebellion...and then there's the mention of Stannis not wanting to join the Rebellion which very few people know about (I'm just tossing that in there because I just thought of it).

Taken in separately, all these little pieces don't mean much, but together they create a tapestry of history that may be helpul for her to know about, as she will need to learn how to be a politician when she decides to head back home, due to King's Landing viewing the craziness that is Cersei.

But again, if Winter is over-taking King's Landing by the time she gets there, the truth of her family's demise and political machinations won't matter at all.

Edited by roxWolfox 🍁

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And btw, this is the thread for the "episode discussion" not the "the episode was awesome, omg! haters to the left, bitches!". Criticism is something we can discuss and considering this episode presented a peak of viewers, it's proper for us to discuss the reasons why and what the show offered this time that viewers felt attracted to it. Telling someone "take your criticism and go away to your secluded area" like we have the plague is no one's role but the mods, and they aren't that rude, also, is against the rules as we're not breaking them.

Unless this thread exist with the only purpose of telling the show was perfect!, in that case, I'll leave.

I agree with this sentiment, we all joined this forum I believe because something about the show or the books attracted or excited us, otherwise what the hell are we doing here? If we all agreed on everything it would become very boring very quickly so on this discussion thread ultimately we should all feel free to express our appreciation or our disappointments in the episodes, isn't that what forums are for?

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I agree with the main point--lack of subtlety in writing this season, female characters reduced to certain stereotypes, etc. You put it very well, thanks for your posts. But how can you say Arya is reduced to a stereotype, and claim Braavos storyline is working in the same paragraph???

You know what's getting cliche? The stereotype argument. People always love to argue this. For years people complained about The Sopranos portraying Italian Americans as stereotypical criminals. Hell the show even got sued over it! What do most people think of The Sopranos now?

Edited by TheWhiteRabbit

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...Personally, I just wanted to say that I loved the episode.

Seriously, though - Where did that come from? I thought that the point of the R&R threads was that all this toxicity would be gathered in one place and not contaminate the rest of the board? What's the purpose of them if other threads get toxic anyway?

Again, you're making the same argument than the other guy except you're phrasing it in a more elegant way. "Criticism is toxic! Take your criticism away, you mean person!". There is nothing wrong with criticism. I haven't yet said anything of the likes of "THE EPISODE WAS BAD! I HATED IT! IS NOT LIKE THE BOOKS!!" as jacksonbrowne keeps insisting we are. I'm offering honest supported criticism of the episode and the flaws of the show in relation with this episode and the opinion people have of the books and how they relate to feminism and accurate portrayal of certain minorities, and what my opinion about is, which is not positive at all. The thread is for DISCUSSING the episode -and the show, in certain ways- and that's what criticism is: a discussion of the flaws. You, or anybody, can't expect that the show will be impervious to any honest criticism because it's popular or because more people like it than hate it. This threads are for "I didn't like the episode because this or that". The R&R threads are for "I didn't like the episode. Argh".

The show has flaws, simply as that. The episode many point as "the best ever!" also has flaws. A lot. Putting aside the light tone in which we deal with them in the R&R threads, there are many flaws that people still want to discuss. Signalling those flaws is not being a "bitter person, stay away from this thread!!". Really, that's a bit childish. As much as the argument of "you simply don't like it because it's not like the books!" (there are scenes that ARE like the books and they're still terrible, tbh). The fact people who participates in the R&R threads come here to discuss the episode doesn't mean we're making it toxic either. If you want a place where the show and every other episode and decision taken by HBO/D&D is nothing but praised, then I suggest you to start a shrine website because this is a discussion board. It's ok. for people to disagree on things.

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Again, you're making the same argument than the other guy except you're phrasing it in a more elegant way. "Criticism is toxic! Take your criticism away, you mean person!". There is nothing wrong with criticism. I haven't yet said anything of the likes of "THE EPISODE WAS BAD! I HATED IT! IS NOT LIKE THE BOOKS!!" as jacksonbrowne keeps insisting we are. I'm offering honest supported criticism of the episode and the flaws of the show in relation with this episode and the opinion people have of the books and how they relate to feminism and accurate portrayal of certain minorities, and what my opinion about is, which is not positive at all. The thread is for DISCUSSING the episode -and the show, in certain ways- and that's what criticism is: a discussion of the flaws. You, or anybody, can't expect that the show will be impervious to any honest criticism because it's popular or because more people like it than hate it. This threads are for "I didn't like the episode because this or that". The R&R threads are for "I didn't like the episode. Argh".

The show has flaws, simply as that. The episode many point as "the best ever!" also has flaws. A lot. Putting aside the light tone in which we deal with them in the R&R threads, there are many flaws that people still want to discuss. Signalling those flaws is not being a "bitter person, stay away from this thread!!". Really, that's a bit childish. As much as the argument of "you simply don't like it because it's not like the books!" (there are scenes that ARE like the books and they're still terrible, tbh). The fact people who participates in the R&R threads come here to discuss the episode doesn't mean we're making it toxic either. If you want a place where the show and every other episode and decision taken by HBO/D&D is nothing but praised, then I suggest you to start a shrine website because this is a discussion board. It's ok. for people to disagree on things.

Did you even watched the episode? Because I seem to remember that, two weeks ago, you swore never watch the show again. Never. So either you changed your mind and you are, after all, watching this horrible show made by these "assholes" (as you name them), or you are criticizing something that you have not even seen, which would be pretty stupid, IMHO...

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