Gustavo Fringed Sleeves Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 LOL Yes, by all means just because I do not agree with you, please feel free to insult me. I have read the books. I did enjoy books 1 - 3. There are even bits and pieces of 4 and 5 that I like, and unlike a lot of people I like 5 better than 4. Are there things that are left out the I am disappointed to not see? Certainly. Are there things that I wish had been done differently? Of course; however in the long run I think they have done an excellent job. I cannot imagine the sheer amount of time and effort it has taken to bring all of it to the screen. I respect them for having the nerve and heart to even try. By the way, just because I do not agree with you, does not make me unintelligent nor does it mean I have not read the books. It just means I have a different opinion on them, which is perfectly acceptable. Actual book content put in the show = about 10%. Whose fault is it that the season as whole has been disappointing, especially compared to past ones? = Books. "Logic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolsimir Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 LOL Yes, by all means just because I do not agree with you, please feel free to insult me. I have read the books. I did enjoy books 1 - 3. There are even bits and pieces of 4 and 5 that I like, and unlike a lot of people I like 5 better than 4. Are there things that are left out the I am disappointed to not see? Certainly. Are there things that I wish had been done differently? Of course; however in the long run I think they have done an excellent job. I cannot imagine the sheer amount of time and effort it has taken to bring all of it to the screen. I respect them for having the nerve and heart to even try. By the way, just because I do not agree with you, does not make me unintelligent nor does it mean I have not read the books. It just means I have a different opinion on them, which is perfectly acceptable. 1. I was not insulting you, nor was my post aimed specifically at you. 2. The fact that they have put a lot of effort into the product is irrelevant to the argument. 3. They did not even try. What we are seeing on TV has almost nothing to do with the fourth and fifth book. They tried to tell their own story. Which means it's impossible for the books to be at fault here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Actual book content put in the show = about 10%. Whose fault is it that the season as whole has been disappointing, especially compared to past ones? = Books. "Logic". I wonder how you would even go about trying to weight how much book content is in the show. Dorne? It seems like 10% is about right, the only characters who are themselves are Doran and Myrcella, the plot is unbelievably silly. Mereen, might hit about 75% I know a lot has been taken out but the basic thread is there and nothing too crazy has been done. King's Landing? Where do you begin? How do you score Tommen who is a teenager but still can't get anything done and Cersei whose only show mistake is arming the Faith, and Marg is in jail like the books, but on a totally different charge, and is a different person? Is that a 50/50? The Wall, similar to Meereen, most of the beats are there, but a lot of weird mixing and matching has been done with Stannis, he's got an army, he needs an army, taking the women on the march, no clans, the Hardhome thing was cool on the show, but with all those witnesses to the Others legit danger, his stabbing will be more crazy in the show, won't it? Sansa goes to Winterfell, LOL, that's maybe 20%? We have some of the same people but mostly other than getting ready for Stannis everything else is different. Arya's story is 80% book, even though they'e not done a very good job with the visual depiction and explanation. So, we have maybe a 40/60 split with 60% being not from the books or something like that? and some stories there is almost nothing from the books? Edited June 4, 2015 by Cas Stark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I wonder how you would even go about trying to weight how much book content is in the show. Dorne? It seems like 10% is about right, the only characters who are themselves are Doran and Myrcella, the plot is unbelievably silly. Mereen, might hit about 75% I know a lot has been taken out but the basic thread is there and nothing too crazy has been done. King's Landing? Where do you begin? How do you score Tommen who is a teenager but still can't get anything done and Cersei whose only show mistake is arming the Faith, and Marg is in jail like the books, but on a totally different charge, and is a different person? Is that a 50/50? The Wall, similar to Meereen, most of the beats are there, but a lot of weird mixing and matching has been done with Stannis, he's got an army, he needs an army, taking the women on the march, no clans, the Hardhome thing was cool on the show, but with all those witnesses to the Others legit danger, his stabbing will be more crazy in the show, won't it? Sansa goes to Winterfell, LOL, that's maybe 20%? We have some of the same people but mostly other than getting ready for Stannis everything else is different. Arya's story is 80% book, even though they'e not done a very good job with the visual depiction and explanation. So, we have maybe a 40/60 split with 60% being not from the books or something like that? and some stories there is almost nothing from the books? But you have to take into account the importance of those plots. I wouldn't say a 10% of faithfulness in the Dorne plot is as bad as that same 10% on, I don't know, the Wall, or Meereen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbrowne Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) The Wall, similar to Meereen, most of the beats are there, but a lot of weird mixing and matching has been done with Stannis, he's got an army, he needs an army, taking the women on the march,Why not? Who gives a shit? no clans,Again, who gives a shit? The clans didn't exist for about 4 books and suddenly the author pulled them out of his ass when he needed people for Stannis to fight alongside. Suddenly those guys yet unmentioned became a formidable force just when Stannis needed them the most.Of course, the show would have to include yet another location and people on the mix that have NOTHING to do with the show overall just so that the book purists are happy. What exactly is DIFFERENT in the story that the clans ain't there and why can't the role be filled with the rescued wildlings if needed? The clans were even in the books mentioned as being not that different from the wildlings and only nominally subservient to the Starks. Edited June 4, 2015 by jacksonbrowne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbrowne Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 But you have to take into account the importance of those plots. I wouldn't say a 10% of faithfulness in the Dorne plot is as bad as that same 10% on, I don't know, the Wall, or Meereen. Why? Do you know how the Dorne plot is supposed to pan out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Why not? Who gives a shit? Again, who gives a shit? The clans didn't exist for about 4 books and suddenly the author pulled them out of his ass when he needed people for Stannis to fight alongside. Suddenly those guys yet unmentioned became a formidable force just when Stannis needed them the most.Of course, the show would have to include yet another location and people on the mix that have NOTHING to do with the show overall just so that the book purists are happy. What exactly is DIFFERENT in the story that the clans ain't there and why can't the role be filled with the rescued wildlings if needed? The clans were even in the books mentioned as being not that different from the wildlings and only nominally subservient to the Starks. It's stupid to take your wife and child into battle, that's why. It is clearly done for plot reasons because it makes no sense otherwise. I didn't say it was a big deal, it's just one of the many little stupid things they do in the show that don't hold up to any analysis beyond 20 seconds. The clans matter for the same reason the Northern lords matter, because they all want to see a Stark back in Winterfell. If you don't see the relevance of that, I can't help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustavo Fringed Sleeves Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) I wonder how you would even go about trying to weight how much book content is in the show. <snip> So, we have maybe a 40/60 split with 60% being not from the books or something like that? and some stories there is almost nothing from the books? I're read you enough to know that you hate the Meereen storyline, but that 75% of faithfulness is way, WAY too high. Divide it by half and the average of 40% you estimated goes even lower. Anyway, this wasn't supposed to be mathematically accurate or anything. Let's just say, plot-wise, only some broad points are checked (Tyrion in Pentos: checked. Tyrion captured by slavers: checked. Daznak's Pit: soon checked), but nothing more; that's why 10% seems fair to me. Dialogue-wise? You have to be kidding me. "Egg, I dreamed that i was old" and stop counting. Edited June 4, 2015 by Nadaplete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) The point is moot anyway, people aren't blaming the books for a lackluster season at this point, they're praising the deviations from terrible books that resulted in a superb season. ...I guess at least we can all agree that we wish D&D had gone with their own story from the start. Edited June 4, 2015 by Facebookless Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbrowne Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It's stupid to take your wife and child into battle, that's why. It is clearly done for plot reasons because it makes no sense otherwise. I didn't say it was a big deal, it's just one of the many little stupid things they do in the show that don't hold up to any analysis beyond 20 seconds. The clans matter for the same reason the Northern lords matter, because they all want to see a Stark back in Winterfell. If you don't see the relevance of that, I can't help you. Well every little book detail matters to you, I see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustavo Fringed Sleeves Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) The point is moot anyway, people aren't blaming the books for a lackluster season at this point, they're praising the deviations from terrible books that resulted in a superb season. They're doing both, depending on who they're talking to and what scene is being discussed. Wanting their cake and eating it too, and all that. Anyway, I'm out, starting now. The thread is for episode rating. Edited June 4, 2015 by Nadaplete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolsimir Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Well, I've just got around to watching this episode. And I must say I was pleasantly surprised. It was actually pretty good. The good stuff was Cersei and Hardhome. The only thing I didn't like about Hardhome was that the ''wights'' looked like generic zombies. Otherwise it was very intense. Some minor details here and there but it was actually enjoyable to watch, a feeling I maybe had for the first time this season. Rest of the episode was crap though. Tyrion/Dany was awful and the only thing making the WF storyline watchable is Alfie's superb acting. Hardhome took up most of the time though, and even otherwise it was a step-up from most of the season. 7/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) They're doing both, depending on who they're talking to and what scene is being discussed. Wanting their cake and eating it too, and all that. Well, both the later books and this season have more flaws than the first 3 books/4 seasons. There is a decrease in narrative quality and presentation in both mediums. In the extreme - books got boring and show got silly. The whole idea of picking a side and being either a book or a show fan is a little narrow minded to me. Recognize the faults in both, try and be objective without being a fan of one over the other, I say. Edited June 5, 2015 by ummester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustavo Fringed Sleeves Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Well, both the later books and this season have more flaws than the first 3 books/4 seasons. There is a decrease in narrative quality and presentation in both mediums. In the extreme - books got boring and show got silly. The whole idea of picking a side and being either a book or a show fan is a little narrow minded to me. Recognize the faults in both, try and be objective without being a fan of one over the other, I say. If you think we're "narrow-minded", what would the people who thought the show was stupid from the beginning be? I'm kind of embarrassed to remember how i defended the show back then. Most of you criticize the books to defend the show. We OTOH don't need to defend the books to criticize the show. Like i said, i liked the Hardhome battle, but i also like several mindless action flicks. Edited June 5, 2015 by Nadaplete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 If you think we're "narrow-minded", what would the people who thought the show was stupid from the beginning be? I'm kind of embarrassed to remember how i defended the show back then. Most of you criticize the books to defend the show. We OTOH don't need to defend the books to criticize the show. Like i said, i liked the Hardhome battle, but i also like several mindless action flicks. I wasn't here from the beginning, probably for the best, as I criticize everything - but consistency is important :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOTRTheoryOfLakerThrones Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 10/10 The Nights Watch scenes were always my favourite!!! When everyone was talking aboyt Blackwater I was rewatching the Watchers on the Wall. And finally everyone give some live to Jon and the Nights Watch. Best episode of it's history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Tell Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Voted 10/10 Actually it was so good that I joined the forum just to share the excitement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbrowne Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Voted 10/10 Actually it was so good that I joined the forum just to share the excitement Worry not. The forum soon will show you the error of your ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) The show has many inconsistencies.One that bothers me oddly is Tyrion's cock was priced very high and they sold him for 2 coins. Why the fuck would a pit slave owner buy a funny man?A disgusting joke made up for cheap comedy became a plot hole.Anyway I think some peopl never think the books have flaws too. Because cmon GRRM wrote it! It cant have flaws! (Sarcasm)I badically look for entertainment value.Hardhome was a big deviation from the books and they proved some deviations can work to be awesome. So.. You musnt always be a hater. Edited June 5, 2015 by robasp2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Voted 10/10 Actually it was so good that I joined the forum just to share the excitementThe hate is strong in here dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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