mafro987daboss Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 For many show-watchers (including myself), the Battle at Castle Black failed to match Blackwater as a fight sequence. However, I actually think Hardhome definitely challenges Blackwater despite only being half as long on screen. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarCrashFiance Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This was much better than the awful special effects they used when Sam killed the first Other. And the scale of the battle was larger than even the Blackwater as far as I'm concerned. Blackwater was mostly confined to a few tight shots with the exception of the giant fleet. In this episode they showed the huge cliff with The Others, the mass of ships just brooding off shore, and the huge wildling encampment. Seemed like a much larger set. The subtle shots of the mass of ships was far better than how everything is usually stupidly explained and shoved in the faces of the viewers. Go back and watch the Blackwater fights. They don't hold up well at all. And Stannis fighting without a helmet despite there supposedly being archers and knights on all sides and above made the battle seem far less dangerous. And the fights with Tyrion looked like rehearsed set pieces with actors crashing into each other....not actual fierce battle. The conflict of Jon versus The Other was better than the other big fights on the show that were in a large battle as well (as opposed to set piece fights like Bronn/Vardis or Red Viper/Mountain). You had Jon kill The Other and then a shot of the Other King seeing that someone was using Valyrian steel to fight the frozen army. Everything seemed much grander, important, and immediate. It felt like the first fight with some real purpose in the entire show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The last scene of Hardhome was the best scene of any show episode. Its not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I remember I didn't have HBO nor internet when Blackwater was airing. So, I went out and rent two hours in a cybercafe to watch the episode. That much I was interested. This episode? I haven't watch it nor I feel like I would any time soon. I guess Blackwater won? :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rise Above Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater was trash compared to this, lol. The set looked about the size of my apartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hardhome was slightly better because there was a justified feeling of dread and it had payoff. As much as I like Blackwater, I don't think they landed the ending as much. It didn't really feel like they sold off the Tyrells making the save as much as they should have. This episode just felt like oh you guys are all fucked. And the ending with Jon making the save and the Other (we finally got fucking Others) staring him down and resurrecting everyone was awesome. Honestly that one moment showed off how dangerous the Others are than probably anything in either the books or show thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 // Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Jon against the Magnar was a much better set-piece fight than the fight against the White Walker, IMO, and in general I find both of Neil Marshall's episodes more engaging as battle sequences. This was an enormous CGI fest, which is pretty remarkable in and of itself, but it led to a massive amount of really chaotic editing. Which, again, is fine in and of itself... but Marshall's episodes, less dependent on CGI and more on practical effects, were able to give clearer shots of the action most of the time. This is extraordinary in ambition and what they can do with time and budget, but it's not as well-choreographed or edited. The mere fact that they had a larger budget doesn't impress me, though, and doesn't rate when I think back on Blackwater and Watchers on the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah, way, way better than the bore at Castle Black last season, but I'll still give the edge to BW just because it had more important characters. And dat wildfire explosion. But Hardhome was pretty good. If I'd been allowed to include one teeny tiny thing it would've been the cool book visual of the fires on the caves blowing out one by one. Or an ice spider. I was pretty sure we were gonna see one, for a while there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I am curious what unsullied think, Hardhome was by far my favorite episode of the series but it may be for no other reason than I had absolutly no idea what was going to happen. I wonder if not knowing going into "Blackwater" if the episode had the same gravity as this one or if just plain and simple "Hardhome" was awesomer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater was a great episode because basically nothing that scale ever showed up TV. But most of the actual fighting was kind of lackluster (and actually, there wasn't much fighting; most of the episode is anticipation). There was the one absolutely amazing FX shot of the fleet getting blown up, and then a lot of minor skirmishes. It was really the non-battle stuff (Cersei/Sansa and Tyrion/Joffrey) that was so great. Castle Black had a lot more actual fighting but it didn't feel like it had actual weight too it. There a few really good FX shots, particularly the sycthe, but nothing that lived up to the wildfire in Blackwater. And the lulls in the action were not nearly as compelling as Blackwater. Hardhome was pure action, on a level dwarfing the other two battles. It was shorter, but significantly more intense and action-packed; and while the "big" FX shots weren't signifcantly better than the other two episodes, they felt more connected to what else was happening on screen. Hardhome is definitely better than Castle Black in my opinion; I'm not sure yet if I like it more than Blackwater. In terms of the actual fight, Hardhome definitely wins; but Blackwater had so much great stuff going on around the fight. On the other hand, Hardhome did too. Either way, its two of the best episodes of the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rise Above Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Jon against the Magnar was a much better set-piece fight than the fight against the White Walker, IMO, and in general I find both of Neil Marshall's episodes more engaging as battle sequences. This was an enormous CGI fest, which is pretty remarkable in and of itself, but it led to a massive amount of really chaotic editing. Which, again, is fine in and of itself... but Marshall's episodes, less dependent on CGI and more on practical effects, were able to give clearer shots of the action most of the time. This is extraordinary in ambition and what they can do with time and budget, but it's not as well-choreographed or edited. Fair enough but you're comparing men fighting men to men being swarmed by a wave of zombie demons. Different type of battle, different choreography. It makes sense that Hardhome was more chaotic and sloppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acosta Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The last scene of Hardhome was the best scene of any show episode. Its not even close. Oh my God! The way he was staring down Jon as he raised all the dead and added to his army? It's like he was silently saying "you think I give a fuck who sits on the Iron Throne when I come to shatter it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixfromAshes Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 While the Blackwater battle is entertaining, it pales in comparison to the intensity and significance of Hardhome. Especially since we now saw how much of a bigger threat the white walkers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah, swarms of zombies don't really do it for me. More of the slow zombie type, myself. The Harryhausen-esque skeletal wights they introduced last season actually get on my nerves a bit, they're so weightless as they bounce around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Oh my God! The way he was staring down Jon as he raised all the dead and added to his army? It's like he was silently saying "you think I give a fuck who sits on the Iron Throne when I come to shatter it?" Holy shit. This just made me think that's a viable way to destroy the IT. Have an Other hit it once with his sword very poetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Martell Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah, swarms of zombies don't really do it for me. More of the slow zombie type, myself. The Harryhausen-esque skeletal wights they introduced last season actually get on my nerves a bit, they're so weightless as they bounce around. Yeah but the slow zombie arch-type doesn't really fit here. They don't "come back" due to some disease or outbreak, they are essentialy reanimated corpse puppets with the NIght King pulling the strings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This is extraordinary in ambition and what they can do with time and budget, but it's not as well-choreographed or edited. The mere fact that they had a larger budget doesn't impress me, though, and doesn't rate when I think back on Blackwater and Watchers on the Wall. The rhythm was nice for me... It was a bit chaotic, but I liked it. Blackwater was one perfectly rounded episode. An episode that literally could be like a mini-movie or something like that. Hardhome never got that. So, I am still voting Blackwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This was better. Hands down, better. Blackwater was better for tension building, but the battle itself wasn't that great...mainly because of money, but that has to be taken into account. This battle scene was just enough tension and then BAM, in your face action for a full 10-15 minutes. Even WotW had its lulls and back-and-forths between different areas of fighting...this was just nonstop, on-the-edge of your seat action for a long while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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