Ser Patroclo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 For many show-watchers (including myself), the Battle at Castle Black failed to match Blackwater as a fight sequence. However, I actually think Hardhome definitely challenges Blackwater despite only being half as long on screen. Thoughts? Although I knew this is not the day Jon dies, seeing him and Tormund in trouble definetly made me chill more than the other two battles. The other two fights tried to depict heroicism, this fight was all about fear of death. In their own way, they are both great. But I like the chill of this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah but the slow zombie arch-type doesn't really fit here. They don't "come back" due to some disease or outbreak, they are essentialy reanimated corpse puppets with the NIght King pulling the strings This. People complain about the skeletons and whatnot...but these aren't being moved on their own. They are simply shells for magic, so they will move as fast as they are commanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater is a Top 5 for me. Battle at the Wall is the only episode I will skip when rewatching a season. It was just so boring. It could have been 1/4 the length. That being said it's hard to compare Blackwater and Hardhome because they were pretty different in terms of the actual events. The fighting during Blackwater was alright. Kinda eh. But all the other tensions happening between the characters and just the outcome - incredible. It's the battle driving all of that tension but not the action that makes the episode one of the best, for me. The sequence at Hardhome once it got going was almost entirely action for what, like 15 minutes? Incredible. It seemed really well-choreographed to me. There was so much going on but you could still follow it and everyone's moves were fantastic (RIP NotVal - you were a badass fighter). It amazes me Kit does almost all of his own stunts and sword fights! And the wights as lemmings - stunning. This episode may make the Top 5 for me ever as well (and not just for the battle - the other scenes were almost entirely top-notch as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistress of Lemon Cakes Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hardhome's fight scene wins. But as a complete episode, Blackwater wins hand's down. They do such a fantastic job setting the mood for the eventual battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaario Starkharis Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Yeah, swarms of zombies don't really do it for me. More of the slow zombie type, myself. The Harryhausen-esque skeletal wights they introduced last season actually get on my nerves a bit, they're so weightless as they bounce around. I've always thought that slow zombies looked dumb. If they are so slow, why are they supposed to be so scary if they can be easily outrunned? Being fast is consistent to the strength the wights are supposed to have both in the books an in the show. If they are much stronger than a living human, why can't they move their legs faster than a living human as well? That said, I have to agree with you that I'm not a fan of the skeletons, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candor Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 It's hard, both are nice, for different reasons. I think I would pick Hardhome as far as action. The dread in this episode was incredible since we've gotten so little of the WW's in book realm, and in this episode at least book readers are temporarily Unsullied. About as much as you could guess is that Jon makes it back to the Wall, but from there, who knows. The action pacing was right for me, even if a lot of zombies are traditionally slower, this actually upped my level of apprehension watching. They were fast, and vicious. And the Night's King! Getting so much of him was exciting, and the end scene of this episode was ominous. So much potential there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Don't know why but the skeleton wights were far more frightening this episode than last season with Bran. They seemed silly and cheesy then but these were legit terrifying. I can't pin down why though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihlus Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater beats the motherloving shit out of this garbage. The effects may not have been as good... but there were characters we cared about, and the whole thing was properly set up. Stannis, Sandor, Sansa, Tyrion, even Lancel all got to shine. It was an appropriate and thrilling climax, even if it ended on a downer, and drastically changed the direction of the story for all characters involved on top of that. This silly shit was just filler, with zombies straight out of Jason and the Argonauts and plot armor thicker than an M1 Abram's front armor. Plus, I like bannermen vs bannermen better than Wildlings vs zombies. Oh, and the Battle of Castle Black > the Battle of Hardhome as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I swear, for a second there, when the Night's King was slowly raising his hands...I thought we were going to hear a roar...Ice Dragon cometh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperoreddy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I am curious what unsullied think, Hardhome was by far my favorite episode of the series but it may be for no other reason than I had absolutly no idea what was going to happen. I wonder if not knowing going into "Blackwater" if the episode had the same gravity as this one or if just plain and simple "Hardhome" was awesomer... Everything I'm reading is that they loved it and think it was one of the best episodes in show history. The only negatives are from a few book readers as far as I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tol Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Wildfire Explosion < Giants Riding Mammoths < Avalanche of the Dead & Resurrection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehearted Snake Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Everything I'm reading is that they loved it and think it was one of the best episodes in show history. The only negatives are from a few book readers as far as I've read.Unsullied I've talked to loved it. Felt like the show as back in its groove after a looooong sloooow start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperoreddy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Unsullied I've talked to loved it. Felt like the show as back in its groove after a looooong sloooow start. Ya many thought there has been "to much talking" and feel this episode saved the season. Some say last week AND this week saved the season. Hardhome blew pretty much every unsullied's mind. More then a few have said best episode ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barristan Whitebeard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Ya many thought there has been "to much talking" and feel this episode saved the season. Some say last week AND this week saved the season. Hardhome blew pretty much every unsullied's mind. More then a few have said best episode ever. Agree. Every single unsullied I know says that it's probably the best episode the show has ever done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies are coming Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This battle was awesome, I can't even understand why some people can complain about it. Now, Blackwater was different for a few things. First, budget. Rewatch seasons 1 and 2 and imagine them with the current budgets. Second, it's a battle of men against men, so there is a lot of character drama going on. This one instead, is a matter of men against white walkers, so it's about dread rather than personal drama. And finally, the deal with Blackwater is that, at that time, you're pretty much rooting for Robb Stark, and certainly not for Stannis or the Lannisters, so the viewers/readers emotional stakes are different. And the final shot from Hardhome is amazing. It's the greatest "You're all fucked" in the series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmure's Floppy Fish Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The Hardhome episode was leaps and bounds ahead of Black Water. IMPHO! It had nothing to do with CGI or budget.. The writing, editing, acting, and overal product was so much more captivating. The final scene bw Jon and the Nights King gave me chills and felt more authentic than anything HBO has ever done and just as captivating as anything GRRM has written. I know that is sacrilege around here, but it is true. This episode was on an entirely different level than CB bad BW. I have never noticed the CGI scenes in any other episodes, so the CGI of this episode was lost me.In addition to the superior Hardome battle vs Black Water/Castle Black, I feel like the Tyrion/Dany scene was absolutely spot on with how I imagined it would happen. So glad D&D give it to us! Also the Sansa/Reek, Sam/Olly ("don't worry about Jon, he always comes back"),and Ramsay/Roose scenes were incredible! Although I believe these scenes would have been just as rewarding had GRRM or anyone with and thumb and index finger had written it!If show haters/book purist find unsubstantiated problems with this episode while trying to argue the book's version was/would have been more rewarding, then they are showing their biased. This episode was on par wih GRRM's writing and as entertaining as anything I have seen/read.Hats off to everyone involved in this episode and hope work like this keeps coming! This episode made up for the weak dialogue in Dorne and the abandonment of Cerci's madness throughout this seasonBTW I'm not Unsullied by a long shot! So don't think the show is my only source for judging the quality of Westeros story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This battle was simply way more important than the one of Blackwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Friendzone Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Tough to say.Maybe Hardhome a little bit ahead of Blackwater.That ending scene proves atmospehere of this situation:that hopeless look on Jon's face and sheer massacre of widlings:we can't stand a chance against them.After he meets Dany,they will. But I think next week will be even better than those two.Dragons,Dany,Tyrion,Jorah,Sons of Harpy,Unsullied etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuseprime Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I liked Hardhome over Blackwater. I thoroughly enjoyed the chaotic atmosphere throughout the entire battle. It also made you give a shit again about the Others. I really thought we'd get a shot of Uncle Benjen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuseprime Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I also like to add that the music and other SFX during this battle (slaughter) sequence set the tone perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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