Stannisneverlikedcats Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Also R.I.P. to the closest thing we had to Val. She was so beautiful too :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Unsullied I've talked to loved it. Felt like the show as back in its groove after a looooong sloooow start. Well, tbf to the show, it basically had to 'rebuild' the story from scratch after all of the chaos of the last two seasons, which is incredibly difficult to do in season 5. I'm not disputing the slowness of it, I'm just saying that I see why it was necessary. However, I think the payoff is going to be much, much more satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Also R.I.P. to the closest thing we had to Val. She was so beautiful too :( I know, all the while I was thinking "Yeh gawds this woman is sexy as fuck and she's not even wearing make-up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJeremiahLouistark Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This trumps Blackwater easily in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dya of Oldstones Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree with Ran and for much the same reasons, I vote Blackwater as much better because of how it was choreographed and how the elements moved together. It was also a better thematic fit for the episode. Hardhome was a blast to watch, though I probably enjoyed it for all the wrong reasons for a battle scene. The White Walkers looked really cool, even if they reminded me extras from a Kurosawa movie, and the CGI skeletons made me chuckle a few times. I was hoping we had seen the last of them in The Children, but oh well. I kept looking for flaming arrows since we've been told over and over (both in show and books) that the corpses need to be burned...not much fire to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arabian Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hardhome over Blackwater no question. I've never gotten the hype over Blackwater. I thought it was a good episode, but never anything spectacular, hell, I liked Castle Black more than BW personally. And I have recently gotten way more into GOT in the last couple of months, finally bought the DVDs and have been rewatching the seasons and I was really excited to get to Blackwater because I thought,' OK, NOW, finally, I'll get it. I'll get why everyone was so damn blown away by it since I'm so invested and crazy mad about the show right now and everything ASOIAF and GOT-related.' Got to that episode, watched it and... Nope, still had the same reaction. It's good, but nothing about it made me go, 'Oh, wow, this is amazing.' This episode, however, made me go 'OH MY GOD! This is ABSOLUTELY amazing!' It was one of the best episodes of television I have EVER watched. I was absolutely riveted. "Holy shit!!"-ing all over the place. Scared my cats a few times with my gasps and jumping around. It was freaking awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk12344 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Easy. Hardome over Blackwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This episode satisfied more than Blackwater did. Most likely it's because I am a book reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark the Red Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I thought this was better than the Blackwater. I'll mention that I am a Stannis fan, so maybe I was a little biased against Blackwater for that reason. Despite the excellent desperate fighting scenes, and the absolutely chilling ending with the Night King slowly raising his arms, the best scene of the whole battle was the pause in the combat when the Female Wilding Leader (semi-hot Val?) confronted the children wights. That shit really differentiated it from all the other battle episodes because it showed you plain as day what the stakes are. No-one will be spared if the Night's Watch fails. Great TV. Funny how I watched Furious 7 this weekend and this episode by contrast shows what a steaming pile of crap most Hollywood is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This episode satisfied more than Blackwater did. Most likely it's because I am a book reader. Would you care to elaborate? The implication that people who liked Blackwater more are not readers? Hardhome over Blackwater no question. I've never gotten the hype over Blackwater. I thought it was a good episode, but never anything spectacular, hell, I liked Castle Black more than BW personally. And I have recently gotten way more into GOT in the last couple of months, finally bought the DVDs and have been rewatching the seasons and I was really excited to get to Blackwater because I thought,' OK, NOW, finally, I'll get it. I'll get why everyone was so damn blown away by it since I'm so invested and crazy mad about the show right and everything ASOIAF and GOT-related.' Got to that episode, watched it and... Nope, still had the same reaction. It's good, but nothing about it made me go' Oh, wow, this is amazing.' This episode, however, made me go 'OH MY GOD! This is ABSOLUTELY amazing!' It was one of the best episodes of television I have EVER watched. I was absolutely riveted. "Holy shit!!"-ing all over the place. Scared my cats a few times with my gasps and jumping around. It was freaking awesome. This episode without Hardhome sequence is never-ending drag... Blackwater had a structure this episode never had. This would never be the best episode of anything, because while they had one effective scene, the rest 2/3 of the episode was all over the place. And not in good ways. That is why, as an episodes, Blackwater, and of course 4x09 - "Watchers on the Wall" easily wins Hardhome. But, Hardhome alone is match to mentioned episodes. Basically, this episode lasted for like an hour, people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Might have to give it to Hardhome. Blackwater didn't have a giant. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater remains as the quintessential GOT episode for me. Hardhome had a great set and was action packed (It surprises me that a TV show can have such great production, better than most movies with less of a budget, and technically the whole show was just a bit over more than half a film) but with BW there were so many more characters that are pivotal. The politics of BW, seeing deserters, seeing tricks in Kings Landing was amazing. I would love to see how they would do Blackwater now, with better ticks up their sleeve and more experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barristan Whitebeard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater remains as the quintessential GOT episode for me. Hardhome had a great set and was action packed (It surprises me that a TV show can have such great production, better than most movies with less of a budget, and technically the whole show was just a bit over more than half a film) but with BW there were so many more characters that are pivotal. The politics of BW, seeing deserters, seeing tricks in Kings Landing was amazing. I would love to see how they would do Blackwater now, with better ticks up their sleeve and more experience And with far more budget, don't forget that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanmaodao Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater was great but I didn't like it as much as others did. But my main reason is personal, perhaps a little petty, and I don't expect everyone to share it. I was on Team Stannis. By pure action standards, it wasn't the best (not really its fault, that was more due to the show's budget at the time, but still); its big selling point, or at least one of them, was that unlike most such battles you see in Hollywood, you didn't know which side to root for. The camera didn't take sides, I read some reviews gush. Sure it did. Go back and re-watch it. At least like four out of five deaths shown were a pro-Lannister guy killing a pro-Stannis guy. Most viewers were on the defenders' side because of Tyrion so I'm sure that felt neutral to them. Basically the only pro-Stannis guy the camera shows any sympathy to is Stannis himself. On this respect, I felt like the episode got more credit than it deserved. What would have helped was just one more pro-Stannis POV in the battle itself. Another one of Davos's sons could have sufficed. One gripe I've always had about this show is its zeal for erasing siblings. Matthos is an only child, Trystane is an only child, Loras is the only son... if it's a budgeting issue, you don't have to cast them. Just mention them. It would feel less jarring than why so many houses, in an age where preserving the lineage is so damn important and mortality is high, would gamble like this. In this case, though, having another one of Davos' son cast and fighting in Blackwater would have helped a lot. The buildup to the battle was fantastic and had the best moments: the wildfire explosion, "hundreds will die. Thousands", and Tyrion and Joffrey finally openly hostile to each other at last. ("Tell the Hound, to tell the king, to tell the...") I liked Watchers on the Wall more than most. In terms of pure action, it was better than Blackwater. It could have also achieved that balanced perspective, but really dropped the ball here, and Blackwater, even with the flaws I mentioned above, did this a lot better. Mance's speech about the wildlings only wanting protection from the Others and not a war, really should have preceded this episode, especially for show-watchers' sake. Still, individual moments were really great. I loved Grenn's last stand, Alliser vs. Tormund, and the scythe. I wish we had gotten more Ghost, and that Styr didn't smash Jon's face against an anvil. Hardhome was great, too. Not sure where I'd rank it against these two. The fact that the wights were apparently killed by non-fire weapons annoyed me. Karsi's (the wildling chieftainess; you have to look up her name because it wasn't given on the show) mini-arc was the strongest element of the battle, the panicked wildlings at the gate going silent the strongest moment. The chaotic nature of the "fighting" added very much to the mood. It's really hard to rank them, but these are my general thoughts on each. I actually think in terms of pure enjoyment, WotW still ranks #1 for me, with Hardhome and Blackwater more or less tied right behind. I will have to re-watch this one a couple times though for full assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I was never a huge fan of Blackwater to begin with, Castle Black beat it hands down, imo. This fight scene beats both in terms of dread, and the overwhelming feeling of despair that pervades the ending. Atmospherically, and technically, it beats both the excellent Castle Black and the average Blackwater fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arabian Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 This episode without Hardhome sequence is never-ending drag... Blackwater had a structure this episode never had. This would never be the best episode of anything, because while they had one effective scene, the rest 2/3 of the episode was all over the place. And not in good ways. That is why, as an episodes, Blackwater, and of course 4x09 - "Watchers on the Wall" easily wins Hardhome. But, Hardhome alone is match to mentioned episodes. Basically, this episode lasted for like an hour, people. I didn't think the other scenes dragged though. - I ADORED the Tyrion/Dany scenes. I loved their conversations. Loved hearing them talk about their families. Loved. It. - Seeing Cersei in that cell was perfection and so much less boring then the endless scenes of her getting drunk with the tons of extras, Sansa in her least-interesting phase to me and one of my least favorite characters ever, Shae, hiding in the bowels of the Red Keep. - The Sansa/Theon-Reek scene was beautiful. Her finally breaking through Ramsey's control to bring forth Theon out of Reek was amazing and seeing that radiant joy beginning to bloom when she realized her brothers were alive was my favorite Sansa moment. - Having Arya out and about and beginning to step out in a new character was intriguing... but for me anything with Arya is great to watch and could never drag. - I liked the Sam/Gilly scene, knowing that they are still hiding out to the point where Olly needs to bring them food says just how bad it is at Castle Black right now with Jon gone. And I liked the conversation with Olly... I like that he's questioning, he *wants* to understand. (Of course, I'm rewatching the seasons and just last week watched the episode where his village was attacked and so I can more easily sympathize with him.) - I also enjoyed the Ramsey/Roose scene because it so clearly showed the difference in how their minds work and why Roose is still around and why, yeah, Ramsey probably won't live a very long life. So, no, I didn't think the episode dragged at all. Had it not been for the Hardhome battle, I would have just thought it was a great episode. With the Hardhome battle, I thought the episode was beyond epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Preferred Blackwater as an episode, but this was a better battle. I've never been a fan of the fighting on GoT, often looks really badly choreographed and suffers from the significant characters being invincible war machines and the mooks dying from a light fart. With a horde of mindless zombies being led by a select few Others that actually makes sense. The impending horror at what was coming for them was nice, too. Castle Black is easily the worst, in both respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I didn't think the other scenes dragged though. - I ADORED the Tyrion/Dany scenes. I loved their conversations. Loved hearing them talk about their families. Loved. It. Well, now, we are entering the area of personal preferences. But, allow me just to point some things, for the sake of conversation. The Dany/Tyrion conversation is supposed to be Clash of the Titans. The Avengers assembled. Rohirrim at Pelennor Fields. It was supposed to be memorable, potent and that you know you have witnessed something amazing by the time that talk has ended. This was the moment the show had to shine. The writers to use every bit of their brains, carefully choose each line. Instead, we got rather generic discussion about their childhoods, fathers and wheels. It was rather anticlimactic. Make no mistake, I am also having high expectations of that talk when these two meet in the book series. And I positively believe that Martin will do better job After all, there hasn't been one line that producers actually did better. - Seeing Cersei in that cell was perfection and so much less boring then the endless scenes of her getting drunk with the tons of extras, Sansa in her least-interesting phase to me and one of my least favorite characters ever, Shae, hiding in the bowels of the Red Keep. Seeing Cersei in dungeons was perhaps satisfacory from fan's POV, but the entire thing was done meekly. I liked her drinking from the floor, but Lena lost her touch. The lioness Cersei is would be out of control from rage and they downplayed it quite a lot. I would have preferred to see more of those scenes, where Cersei is borderline hysterical, over-dramatic and chaotic. The Cersei we got was able just to utter couple of threats that were FAR, FAR from effective. - The Sansa/Theon-Reek scene was beautiful. Her finally breaking through Ramsey's control to bring forth Theon out of Reek was amazing and seeing that radiant joy beginning to bloom when she realized her brothers were alive was my favorite Sansa moment. Yeah, that was nice. But also, once again, put a huge question mark to what they have been doing so far. If the secret that Bran and Rickon are alive was always supposed to "empower" Sansa, then they will have to answer for the purpose of the rest of the things they made her character go through. - Having Arya out and about and beginning to step out in a new character was intriguing... but for me anything with Arya is great to watch and could never drag. One name? Lenna? Are they trying to ship Arya and Tyrion? :) Jokes aside, I throughly enjoy Braavos this season, but between nonsense at Winterfell, idiocies in King's Landing and catastrophe in Dorne, it was difficult to properly enjoy it. - I liked the Sam/Gilly scene, knowing that they are still hiding out to the point where Olly needs to bring them food says just how bad it is at Castle Black right now with Jon gone. And I liked the conversation with Olly... I like that he's questioning, he *wants* to understand. (Of course, I'm rewatching the seasons and just last week watched the episode where his village was attacked and so I can more easily sympathize with him.) Ah, the subtleties of Wun Wun. They are beating the dead horse. They have set Olly for the infamous "For the watch" line, so all this resetting time after time is becoming a bit redundant. And if you needed this conversation to explain you what is his problem with the wildlings, then I suppose producers are doing really lousy job in explaining some things. So, no, I didn't think the episode dragged at all. Had it not been for the Hardhome battle, I would have just thought it was a great episode. With the Hardhome battle, I thought the episode was beyond epic. Well, as I said, in the beginning, we have discussed some personal opinions and preferences. Thing is that for me, Hardhome alone was beyond epic, even with some issues like horrid Harington acting and WW aesthetics. But the rest of the episode was a bit disconnected. This was far from cohesive structure. And hence, IMO, will never be able to be one of the greats. While, Blackwater remains to be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussie_ironborn Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 'They want to play music with us, let's play... Drums!' DavosOne of the best moments in tv I swear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpenglowMemories Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Blackwater was strong for the first half, but didn't carry over into the second half. The build up and wildfire explosion are great, the actual fighting on the beach is more meh. From a production standpoint, Hardhome reigns supreme. Certainly, it's the most impressive work they've done visually so far. I do have some problems with it. For starters, the close-combat action was almost incomprehensible. Fast, sped up, quickly cut shots where you can hardly view the combatants isn't pleasant to me. Thankfully, the wider action was better. And yeah, I don't find the fast-moving, super agile skeletons scary either. I'd give Blackwater the points for the script and the build-up, with Hardhome being more spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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