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[BOOK SPOILERS] Discussing Sansa XVIII - DeReekerization


Mladen

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This is certainly an episode where we will discuss Sansa the least (which, this season is blessing of sort) but between Dynamic Duo and Battle of Ice, Sansa managed to find out that her brothers are alive.



What will she do with this knowledge is yet to be seen. We also have the Chekhov's tool somewhere hidden, Bolton plans, Stannis on the road, and Theon in a psychological battle so epic that Hardhome can be just a preview to it.



Once more, you are welcomed to Discussing Sansa thread. Keep it civil and play nice, as usual.



Lastly, the last iteration descended into ad infinitum debate about Sansa's imaginary pregnancy. While we all know that coitus can indeed result with a child (apparently some great discoveries were made in the fandom regarding that last week :)), until that moment, I will ask you all to refrain yourself from debating that on this thread. The topic is as sensitive as it is, without throwing a pregnancy which BTW, hasn't still happened into all of this. Thank you all very much.



One scene, a secret revealed and consequences to be determined...


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Well, I'm more and more in the wagon that Sansa either opens up the gates for Stannis or just takes Winterfell with her supposed allies. The jump doesn't really makes sense now (Not that it ever stopped them before), and Theon's purpose does seem as a supporting character to this bizarre Sansa arc.

We've all talked about Sansa's butchered characterization, but I'm pretty sure the show will "reward" her with Winterfell, as awful as this is. Show!Theon's hopeless. His journey has been reduced to nothing.

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Show!Theon's hopeless. His journey has been reduced to nothing.

Even though I have always hated the idea of Sansa in Winterfell, the mere meeting between these two was always an interesting thing to explore. With this thread title, I really wanted us ti explore how long will Sansa keep pressurizing Reek and when it will all break into pieces. So, apparently, the shock didn't move Theon. But will Sansa? It would be interesting if we would see Sansa undoing everything Ramsay did. Well, not everything, though ;)

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I gotta admit it - I was totally on the edge of my seat when she started confronting him about Bran and Rickon saying to the TV - "Do if!! Tell her!!" I totally got chills (in a good way) when he did. It was similar to how I felt when Tyrion called Dany "Your Grace" last week. This thing we've been waiting for for so long - a Stark knows another Stark is alive! (I know Jon knows about Bran - not counting him since he is part of the family but not a Stark)

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Well, with LF not in this episode, I think he is on the way to pickup Vale troops on the way and will be arriving in Winterfell sometime in Episode 10.


Sansa must be excited that her brothers are alive but I imaging is absolutely shattered that she has had to suffer what she has for all but nothing but I expect her character's motivation will be to find her brothers and get the North to rally around them and get Winterfell to fly the Direwolf again and expecially have that dame gamepeice change in the opening credits (I will cheer the day/episode it happens, how about all of you). As I have said before, Sansa will have one more intimate encounter with Ramsay and that will be when she unleashes that weapon she picked up last week. Episode 10 for that as well. Theon at this point, he is at the end of his life, He has no idea where the boys are so the only thing he can really do is save Sansa's life in most likely Episode 10 after she attacks Ramsay with the said weapon. Fat Walda at some pont will die, time is running out for her and I expect that soon. Not a lot of time left and seemingly so much to pack into it.


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I'm just happy Theon finally admitted to her that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon. The expression on her face as he told her that was one of sureprise and relief. It was really great and once again, Sophie and Alfie both did a fantastic job. I really love the Sansa/Theon scenes. I do think the "Reek" part of him is still very much there and in control of who he is, but slowly, we've seen bits of "Theon" popping out here and there.

That being said, since it seems like we won't see Winterfell in episode 9, we will probably only get a little bit more of her arc in the finale. There's so many possibilities as to what could happen with her and Theon AND Ramsay. Now that she knows Bran and Rickon are alive, perhaps she's inclined to try and stay in Winterfell going into season 6. Also, where the hell is Brienne and Pod? Are they still in Wintertown? Will they even make any kind of move in the finale?

As for Ramsay, it looks like he is going to attack Stannis from his camp. I'm guessing he'll leave Winterfell in the finale, unless there's a quick scene of him departing in episode 9. I don't think Sansa would go with him, but I guess there's always that option.

I'm also wondering when she's going to use that corkscrew she picked up in episode 7. She could be using it to pick at the lock on her door. I however, think a more badass idea would be if she killed Myranda with it out of self defense. That would totally be a "WTF" moment in the finale. Just imagine Ramsay's reaction to THAT once he returned.

Overall, it was a really great episode and I enjoyed it a lot. The Hardhome battle was just epic.

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I still don't get why, if the showrunners have been planning since season 2 for this storyline, there was no sign Sansa even knew her brothers were dead until episode 505. That seems like a payoff that could have been set up better. That said, nice to see Sansa get that information, though it doesn't seem like it has much immediate consequence -- I know some people were speculating that this would give her new hope or whatever (and indeed, based on one of Sophie's interviews at the start of the season, I thought that might be how they would play it), but Sansa was already totally composed and put-together at the start of the scene, full of righteous anger. She didn't come across as somebody in real need of something to live for (particularly in comparison to her first scene last week).






Sansa must be excited that her brothers are alive but I imaging is absolutely shattered that she has had to suffer what she has for all but nothing





Um, why? She wasn't doing this because she desperately wants to be heir. She wants the Boltons out of her house (even if that seems like a remote possibility at this juncture).


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I'm just happy Theon finally admitted to her that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon. The expression on her face as he told her that was one of sureprise and relief. It was really great and once again, Sophie and Alfie both did a fantastic job. I really love the Sansa/Theon scenes. I do think the "Reek" part of him is still very much there and in control of who he is, but slowly, we've seen bits of "Theon" popping out here and there.

That being said, since it seems like we won't see Winterfell in episode 9, we will probably only get a little bit more of her arc in the finale. There's so many possibilities as to what could happen with her and Theon AND Ramsay. Now that she knows Bran and Rickon are alive, perhaps she's inclined to try and stay in Winterfell going into season 6. Also, where the hell is Brienne and Pod? Are they still in Wintertown? Will they even make any kind of move in the finale?

As for Ramsay, it looks like he is going to attack Stannis from his camp. I'm guessing he'll leave Winterfell in the finale, unless there's a quick scene of him departing in episode 9. I don't think Sansa would go with him, but I guess there's always that option.

I'm also wondering when she's going to use that corkscrew she picked up in episode 7. She could be using it to pick at the lock on her door. I however, think a more badass idea would be if she killed Myranda with it out of self defense. That would totally be a "WTF" moment in the finale. Just imagine Ramsay's reaction to THAT once he returned.

Overall, it was a really great episode and I enjoyed it a lot. The Hardhome battle was just epic.

Ramsay wants 20 men. He will sneak into the camp to kill Stannis. Why risk yourself, heir to the North/house Bolton with only 20 men against several thousand. He is going to try and cut the head off the Snake. If he succeeds and Stannis is killed, Shireen could be sacraficed to bring Stannis back. Who knows.

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I still don't get why, if the showrunners have been planning since season 2 for this storyline, there was no sign Sansa even knew her brothers were dead until episode 505. That seems like a payoff that could have been set up better. That said, nice to see Sansa get that information, though it doesn't seem like it has much immediate consequence -- I know some people were speculating that this would give her new hope or whatever (and indeed, based on one of Sophie's interviews at the start of the season, I thought that might be how they would play it), but Sansa was already totally composed and put-together at the start of the scene, full of righteous anger. She didn't come across as somebody in real need of something to live for (particularly in comparison to her first scene last week).

Producers said that it will bring her new hope in Inside the episode video. So, I guess, her "empowerment" was lying in that little secret.

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I still don't get why, if the showrunners have been planning since season 2 for this storyline, there was no sign Sansa even knew her brothers were dead until episode 505. That seems like a payoff that could have been set up better. That said, nice to see Sansa get that information, though it doesn't seem like it has much immediate consequence -- I know some people were speculating that this would give her new hope or whatever (and indeed, based on one of Sophie's interviews at the start of the season, I thought that might be how they would play it), but Sansa was already totally composed and put-together at the start of the scene, full of righteous anger. I don't think she was in need of something to live for.

Agreed. The show's slowly returning her to her start of the season status, I bet, in order to retcon her with Book!Sansa. She's almost over the traumatic event, as awful as this is. She's even left the sex slave clothing and back to her Stark style. This Sansa's not broken. She's pretty much just plotting her way out or her way in taking the castle.

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I have to say this is the one episode this season that gave me any hope of Sansa taking back her home rather than just trying to escape. She could now have a larger reason to do so, or at least a reason to not flee to the Wall, taking Alys Karstark's role, or even Jeyne Poole's role post escape. She could take up a route similar to what Davos did, searching for her lost brothers. Or she could take back WF by getting rid of the right people, and use that as a base from which to search for Bran and Rickon.



We don't have a lot of information about what she'll do with what she learned tonight, so it's hard to say, but I have hope, and that's rather nice after how this season has been.


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Even though I have always hated the idea of Sansa in Winterfell, the mere meeting between these two was always an interesting thing to explore. With this thread title, I really wanted us ti explore how long will Sansa keep pressurizing Reek and when it will all break into pieces. So, apparently, the shock didn't move Theon. But will Sansa? It would be interesting if we would see Sansa undoing everything Ramsay did. Well, not everything, though ;)

I think Reek will break at the most plot convenient point - Episode 10. She's getting one more scene with him in order for him to break, I think. Which is sad. I don't really think Theon's been the serviced character in this storyline, but rather Ramsay.
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Ramsay wants 20 men. He will sneak into the camp to kill Stannis. Why risk yourself, heir to the North/house Bolton with only 20 men against several thousand. He is going to try and cut the head off the Snake. If he succeeds and Stannis is killed, Shireen could be sacraficed to bring Stannis back. Who knows.

As much as I hate Ramsay, I don't want Stannis or Davos to kill him. I want to see him eventually die at the hands of either Sansa or Theon. That being said, I can't see him dying in the finale. He and Roose are the only REAL villains the show has. Take them away and you take away that "bad guy" element. There should be another bad guy coming up here soon whenever Ser Robert Strong finally shows up.

I hope Ramsay doesn't (and I don't think he will) kill Stannis. I think he'll sneak into his camp and kill a lot of his men and then retreat. Killing Stannis and then having to kill Shireen would be just awful. Nevertheless, I think this whole arc will go into season 6.

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Producers said that it will bring her new hope in Inside the episode video. So, I guess, her "empowerment" was lying in that little secret.

That's a really weird character beat, then, because the Sansa we see at the start of that scene is easily the most ferocious the character has been since she got to Winterfell. If they were trying to convey that she really needed that extra motivation, they botched that completely.

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Anyone know if there was a time skip between episodes 7 and 8? I noticed Sansa was back into her dark, formal attire rather than the raggedy white dress she was wearing in episode 7.

At this point it feels like every plot is working on its own timeline. Winterfell (and Meereen) appear to have picked up almost immediately after last episode; in Sansa's case, maybe, like, the next day, seeing as Theon apparently brings her all her food and this is the first time she's seen him since.

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Well, I'm more and more in the wagon that Sansa either opens up the gates for Stannis or just takes Winterfell with her supposed allies. The jump doesn't really makes sense now (Not that it ever stopped them before), and Theon's purpose does seem as a supporting character to this bizarre Sansa arc.

We've all talked about Sansa's butchered characterization, but I'm pretty sure the show will "reward" her with Winterfell, as awful as this is. Show!Theon's hopeless. His journey has been reduced to nothing.

The jump would make sense if Ramsay attempts to place Sansa in confinement while he is on the road to battle Stannis. Considering that Ramsay knows Sansa is trying to escape he would never leave her free to move about the castle in his absence.

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At this point it feels like every plot is working on its own timeline. Winterfell (and Meereen) appear to have picked up almost immediately after last episode; in Sansa's case, maybe, like, the next day, seeing as Theon apparently brings her all her food and this is the first time she's seen him since.

Yeah if we matched up the timelines then what's happening at the Wall now is actually what was happening during Rains of Castamere, based on baby Sam's size.

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