"You can swear your allegiance to me or die"

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I was thinking that line made no sense for Jaime, but now that someone mentioned Ellaria, that has to be it.

I wonder if we'll get the Fire and Blood speech. Sadly, it won't have the same affect as in the books. :(

And if Jaime ignores Cersei's requests for aid, that makes him look even worse in the show because they've done absolutely nothing to drive a wedge between the two in the show.

You're right, while most of the audience from my experience hates cersei, they haven't done anything to drive the wedge between them, and if he denies her request for help, it will probably just make him look like a douche who won't help his sister in her time of need.

[WalkinDude]

I'm wondering what will happen in Dorne in last two episodes. If I recall correctly; when reporters had visited the Dorne set there was a mysterious actor whom they were not allowed to take photos of or talk about in their articles. Especially after Tyrion mentioning Martells during his speech with Daenerys, I'm thinking if this person is someone from Team Targaryen, perhaps Varys or even possibly Aegon?

This actually makes a lot of sense. In Tyrion's speech to Dany in Episode 8, he mentions most of the great families of Westeros and whether they'd support House Targaryen. House Martell was suspiciously absent from the list, considering the Martells are the major family of the South and their previous connection to Rhaegar. And obviously the whole fact that in the books the Martells have been secretly supporting Viserys and attempt to bring Dany on board. Would make sense for Varys to be there to negotiate terms /report the current status of affairs. He's the spider afterall, so I don't think there is much going on in Mereen (to include Jorah and Tyrion) he wouldn't be aware of. This would also answer who his "friends" were he mentioned in the first episode of the season.

I also like to think Littlefinger and Varys are equals, and we've had a bunch of Littlefinger progression with little time for Varys. Seeing as how they showed Varys can be just as ruthless as Littlefinger with the added scene of Varys torturing the man who made him a Eunuch, this could add a whole other dimension to the plot line - a race to see who is backing the right horse; Varys or LF.

[jmb06010]

This actually makes a lot of sense. In Tyrion's speech to Dany in Episode 8, he mentions most of the great families of Westeros and whether they'd support House Targaryen. House Martell was suspiciously absent from the list, considering the Martells are the major family of the South and their previous connection to Rhaegar. And obviously the whole fact that in the books the Martells have been secretly supporting Viserys and attempt to bring Dany on board. Would make sense for Varys to be there to negotiate terms /report the current status of affairs. He's the spider afterall, so I don't think there is much going on in Mereen (to include Jorah and Tyrion) he wouldn't be aware of. This would also answer who his "friends" were he mentioned in the first episode of the season.

I also like to think Littlefinger and Varys are equals, and we've had a bunch of Littlefinger progression with little time for Varys. Seeing as how they showed Varys can be just as ruthless as Littlefinger with the added scene of Varys torturing the man who made him a Eunuch, this could add a whole other dimension to the plot line - a race to see who is backing the right horse; Varys or LF.

LF is only backing one horse: his own.

[Candor]

no its not jamie he is asking

Doran is saying that to Ellaria ...as we have seen a shot of Ellaria bending knee to Doran

Ah gotcha. It could very well be someone else, the preview made it seem like it was to Jaime, but who knows!

In many ways, Jamie going to Dorne and being captured by Doran, is a replacement for his going to the Riverlands and being captured by Lady Stoneheart. There's a number of these deviations from book to show that have had to happen because the show left her out, but HBO still have to get his character in the same place plot-wise at the end of this season, i.e. captured and unavailbe to Cersie. So when you have "You can swear your allegiance to me or die" just think of Lady Stoneheart saying that to him. It's pretty much what she says to Brienne in Feast of Crow's Chapter 42, and I suspect whatever deal Doran offers Jamie next week will be the replacement for the deal Lady Stoneheard will give him in the next book.

I see what you're saying, and yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder what the deal will end up being, since we never got to see what LSH wanted with Jaime in book, but it seems like we'll get some version of that with Doran. I would imagine it has to be something equal... LSH would either be some vengeance quest or to bring her children to her... Doran, I'm not sure what it could be other than maybe backing Myrcella/Trystane for the crown?

The problem is, you can't have Trystane/Dany if that's the case, which means they're cutting out Doran's long-term goal from the book completely and wedging in a combination of Queenmaker and transplanted Jaime's LSH arc in Dorne. Though considering the re-arranging the show's done in other areas, this isn't out of the realm of possibilities.

[Candor]

I was thinking that line made no sense for Jaime, but now that someone mentioned Ellaria, that has to be it.

I wonder if we'll get the Fire and Blood speech. Sadly, it won't have the same affect as in the books. :(

And if Jaime ignores Cersei's requests for aid, that makes him look even worse in the show because they've done absolutely nothing to drive a wedge between the two in the show.

Yes. Honestly the fact that they've done that in the show really irritates me. A lot of what they've done with Jaime has. He had some development as a character back when he was running around with Brienne, but after that it's like he's gone backwards a ton in terms of who he is. Also he's still very much attached to Cersei... saddens me because I liked reading the demise of their relationship in the books, which ended up culminating in him turning his back to her. It was kind of awesome, and arguably a part of his overall "redemption" such as it was.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I really hope it's not aimed at the Sand Snakes, I mean come on, threatening your nieces with death? No man, just no!

He's not. He's saying it to Ellaria.

[The Ghost of Rhaegar]

classic mash up where they cut the preview scenes to confuse us. i doubt it is Jaime he is asking that to.

[FookinLegend]

Realistically it wouldn't make much sense for Jaime to get out of Dorne without problems.. The Martells will know damn soon about Cersei's arrest and I somehow still think they know more about LF's and the Tyrells involvement so they know the Lannisters are on a weak point atm. If Doran really wants revenge, here you have Jaime Lannister, the most important of them all at the moment.

Wouldn't find it very strange if they make show Doran very forgiving to Jaime though.

[ADanceWithCats]

Yes. Honestly the fact that they've done that in the show really irritates me. A lot of what they've done with Jaime has. He had some development as a character back when he was running around with Brienne, but after that it's like he's gone backwards a ton in terms of who he is.

I, on the other hand, have really enjoyed this. This has made his path on the show much more complicated than the straightforward redemption of the books, where it's "oh, there are other women than Cersei" plus resentment at her having sex with other people.

I'm assuming that Myrcella will tell him, "yeah, the thing about Mom loving us? She loved Joffrey and didn't care that he abused Tommen or me. She treated me just like Grandfather treated Uncle Tyrion. That's part of why I prefer to be here, away from her." If Jaime turns away from Cersei following something like this, it will not be about sex, it will be about family. A much stronger thing for me, personally.

Or something totally different can still happen.

[Denam_Pavel]

I, on the other hand, have really enjoyed this. This has made his path on the show much more complicated than the straightforward redemption of the books, where it's "oh, there are other women than Cersei" plus resentment at her having sex with other people.

I'm assuming that Myrcella will tell him, "yeah, the thing about Mom loving us? She loved Joffrey and didn't care that he abused Tommen or me. She treated me just like Grandfather treated Uncle Tyrion. That's part of why I prefer to be here, away from her." If Jaime turns away from Cersei following something like this, it will not be about sex, it will be about family. A much stronger thing for me, personally.

Or something totally different can still happen.

That's not Cersei tho. Or Robert, or Jaime, or Barristan. It makes little sense for Joffrey to have been was abusing Myrcella at a regular basis. She had people she can go too and she wasn't a particularly immature six year old like book Tommen.

[jbob]

I really hope it's not aimed at the Sand Snakes, I mean come on, threatening your nieces with death? No man, just no!

They tried to harm an innocent and start a war. Screw'em. Doran is one of the few characters who actually cares about the rest of his people. That's his job.

You're right, while most of the audience from my experience hates cersei, they haven't done anything to drive the wedge between them, and if he denies her request for help, it will probably just make him look like a douche who won't help his sister in her time of need.

He got his hand cut off which has forced him to rethink his attitude. There's the wedge right there. He's already defied her 3 times. First and second times when Cersei asked him to kill Tyrion. 3rd time when she asked him to hunt down and kill Sansa.

Why must there be some kind of argument between them? Then that becomes personal, and Jaime hasn't really changed. It means, "She pissed me off. Not gonna help her." We've already seen him finally come to the conclusion that she's a "hateful" woman. He knows Tyrion was framed by Cersei and the trial was totally set up to find Tyrion guilty. There's no way the audience will see him as a jerk for abandoning a woman they totally despise. Why can't it just be a simple realisation that she's fucked up?

Having said all that. We're probably going to see all that next season. I don't believe the letter will happen this season. Jaime will go to the Riverlands next season. Perhaps instead of a letter he'll tell her to her face.

[ADanceWithCats]

That's not Cersei tho. Or Robert, or Jaime, or Barristan. It makes little sense for Joffrey to have been was abusing Myrcella at a regular basis. She had people she can go too and she wasn't a particularly immature six year old like book Tommen.

Well, Joffrey was actually abusing Tommen in the books, and nobody reacted, didn't they? Robert did, but iirc in a way that could only make matters worse (didn't he hit Joffrey after the pregnant-cat thing, or something?).

So, amend this to, "UncleDad, Mom let Joffrey abuse Tommen for years. You were too busy playing warrior man to even notice that, but she did notice and let it continue. Don't you realise why I wouldn't want anything to do with her? Or, for that matter, you? The Dornish are crazy, but at least they are not hypocrites."

I'm just saying, that would be a pretty good reason as far as I'm concerned to let Jaime lose his last illusions about his family. Certainly better than 'oh noes, Cersei had sex with other people.'

[Bonesy]

Realistically it wouldn't make much sense for Jaime to get out of Dorne without problems.. The Martells will know damn soon about Cersei's arrest and I somehow still think they know more about LF's and the Tyrells involvement so they know the Lannisters are on a weak point atm. If Doran really wants revenge, here you have Jaime Lannister, the most important of them all at the moment.

Wouldn't find it very strange if they make show Doran very forgiving to Jaime though.

In what way is Jaime so important to Doran?* He killed the man that was far more abusive to his sister than her eventual murderer was and did nothing against his House Martell as I recall.. He would have been hugely important politically if Tywin were alive, Cersei or Tommen was in any position to do anything, or maybe if Kevan gave a crap one way or the other. But Doran knows none of those things are true.

ETA:

*Or anyone but maybe Arya at this point. And Tyrion. But they're no where near anything related to this at the moment.

[Denam_Pavel]

Well, Joffrey was actually abusing Tommen in the books, and nobody reacted, didn't they? Robert did, but iirc in a way that could only make matters worse (didn't he hit Joffrey after the pregnant-cat thing, or something?).

So, amend this to, "UncleDad, Mom let Joffrey abuse Tommen for years. You were too busy playing warrior man to even notice that, but she did notice and let it continue. Don't you realise why I wouldn't want anything to do with her? Or, for that matter, you? The Dornish are crazy, but at least they are not hypocrites."

I'm just saying, that would be a pretty good reason as far as I'm concerned to let Jaime lose his last illusions about his family. Certainly better than 'oh noes, Cersei had sex with other people.'

Yeah, but I don't think everybody knew about Joffrey and Tommen. Cersei perhaps, but not Myrcella. And Myrcella just now witnessed her new family try to kill her. Only Jaime's intervention kept her safe. Does that not count for anything?

[Red Tiger]

They tried to harm an innocent and start a war. Screw'em. Doran is one of the few characters who actually cares about the rest of his people. That's his job.

Oh for fucks sake

Regardless of if it's his job, kinslaying is not exactly a good thing in Westeros

[Mish Windage]

Jam/Cer last moments together I thought were pretty contentious. She pulled rank on him.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

Yeah, but I don't think everybody knew about Joffrey and Tommen. Cersei perhaps, but not Myrcella. And Myrcella just now witnessed her new family try to kill her. Only Jaime's intervention kept her safe. Does that not count for anything?

Myrcella knows full well that Doran and Trystane had nothing to do with what Ellaria and the Sand Snakes attempted, and that they are now in custody.

[Pies are coming]

Hey guys, how is Cersei/Qyburn supposed to send a message to Jaime without Doran Martell knowing?

Cersei will not be writing to Jaime, and Jaime will not be receiving a letter from her.

Doran Martell won't be threating to kill his nieces nor his brother's girlfriend. He wouldn't also expect Jaime to turn against his family, he won't hurt Myrcella and Areo is already serving Dorne. Which leaves us with Bronn.

So Bronn will be hired to escort the Sand Snakes wherever Doran Martell sends them to go, maybe to King's Landing to kill Tommen after Trystane marries Myrcella. As for Jaime, why would Doran let him go?

[acosta]

Has to be Ellaria. She's the one who defied him. Jamie owes the Prince of Dorne no allegiance and you can hardly fault a guy for trying to spring his niece, even if you don't want him to. Ellaria was trying to kill her; quite a different thing.

[Stonehearted Snake]

I'm still hoping the necklace is revealed to still be in Myrcella's possession since we know there are more than the 2 Cersei names (her's and M's). That could drive a wedge - Cersei guilt-tripping Jaime into some crazy mission rather than just be honest with him about her fears.