El Guapo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Doran threatening to kill Jaime is completely against what his character has been described so far. Doran wants the Lannisters to think that he wants peace, he will tell Jaime so when he allows him to leave with Myrcella. As I said, saying it to Jaime makes the least sense of all, even Bronn is more likely, but more likely he'll be killed off for smacking the young prince.After Jaime/Myrcella go, Trystane/Sand Snakes/Ellaria get mad at him and he reveals his other less risky plans for revenge, fire and blood. This is what I see happening as well. Doran's plan is going to be to marry Trystane off To Dany. The fact that Tyrion left the Martells off his list of houses that may support Dany was the clincher for me. They want it to be a surprise for viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterPool Stark Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If Trystane is Aegon then a Targaryen/Baratheon alliance through marriage (trystane/myrcella) is dangerous indeed. It would mean a stop to Danny and Stannis's claims to the Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sciteacher Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hey guys, how is Cersei/Qyburn supposed to send a message to Jaime without Doran Martell knowing? Cersei will not be writing to Jaime, and Jaime will not be receiving a letter from her. I agree with you on this. How would Cersei be able to get a letter to Jaime there? Maybe she could send it with a cover note saying "Um, Jamie Lannister is going to be sneaking around there trying to get my daughter back. Could you please give him this note from me? Thanks, Cersei, Queen Mother" No doubt he will hear about Cersei's plight eventually. I like the idea someone had that Jaime will give his approval to Myrcella's marriage. That would be a good set up for the formation of a huge rift between Jamie and Cersei (to be played out next season, no doubt). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 lel that would be cool,but why would jaime accept that ? Myrcella's life is on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacabb Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Everyone is overthinking it and forgetting to realize that there just isn't enough time to make an impact with new storylines whilst trying to wrap up the show with only 2 measly seasons left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy_rick Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Has to be Ellaria. She's the one who defied him. Jamie owes the Prince of Dorne no allegiance and you can hardly fault a guy for trying to spring his niece, even if you don't want him to. Ellaria was trying to kill her; quite a different thing. Was she? She talked about this - yes. In Ep 2 Ellaria says to Doran: "Let me sent her to Cersei. One finger at a time." But in the fight between the Sand Snakes and Bronn/Jamie one of the Sand Snakes did have a chance to kill her. I just rewatched the scene: It's funny. The girl with the whip (Nym) runns to Myrcella. The whip is in her right hand. Just the moment before she arrives at Myrcella she does a magic trick: she transmogrifies the whip into a knife which she uses to force Myrcella to come with her. Right in this moment she could have killed Myrcella. But she didn't. So what was Ellarias plan? Kidnap her and then mutilate her to force Cersei into war? Wouldn't killing Myrcella be enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerDoublePost Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Regarding Doran having no heirs, is it out of the question that the sand snakes could rule after his death? Also, if T = A then Aegon himself is trueborn and a rightful heir to Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Regarding Doran having no heirs, is it out of the question that the sand snakes could rule after his death?Also, if T = A then Aegon himself is trueborn and a rightful heir to Dorne.If he's Aegon, he's got an objectively better claim then Dany and Jon and thus, has to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candor Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 This is what I see happening as well. Doran's plan is going to be to marry Trystane off To Dany. The fact that Tyrion left the Martells off his list of houses that may support Dany was the clincher for me. They want it to be a surprise for viewers. I agree, I think that's his long game. What I'm not sure is how Jaime fits into anything in Dorne, and if it's as simple as they sent him out there to get Myrcella......... that feels underwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 i agree it is Ellaria and not jamie or bronn, especially once i saw the pic of her kneeling i believe there has been plenty to show jamie that myrcella and not cersei deserves his protection since she is an innocent...and i believe he has not heard from cersei or anyone else. she was just asking if by chance he had returned yet or attempted to contact her so she could get him to try to rescue her...i mean ravens, messengers and word of mouth are the only way to communicate and i agree with the poster that says how is he going to be found by the first two since he is sneaking and going in cognito...and as for word of mouth until he got to the city he wasn't in a position to hear anything. and now off topic but something that i think is important...as to seeing dragons over kings landing from page 1It was in Bran's vision.i am guessing you mean during season 4 after he got to bloodraven. i have a memory like a sieve so i don't really remember that, but i remember his first vision after fall in season 1 - episode 1 where he is flying across world and sees grown dragons to the far east, or at least that was what i thought based on what i knew from book 1..guess i am due for a rewatch... i know in GoT(the book) he flies in his dream/vision while still in coma to see winterfell as it is at that moment with maester lewin in the rookery...his mother holding the bloody dagger while ser rodrick pukes on the ship heading for kings landing...then he looks across the narrow sea past the free cities and sees... ...the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise. ~ GRRM, GoT - Bran POV#3 i believe we are going to learn that there are more than just dany's 3 dragons...but this is a theory for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous Gabe Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I, on the other hand, have really enjoyed this. This has made his path on the show much more complicated than the straightforward redemption of the books, where it's "oh, there are other women than Cersei" plus resentment at her having sex with other people. I'm assuming that Myrcella will tell him, "yeah, the thing about Mom loving us? She loved Joffrey and didn't care that he abused Tommen or me. She treated me just like Grandfather treated Uncle Tyrion. That's part of why I prefer to be here, away from her." If Jaime turns away from Cersei following something like this, it will not be about sex, it will be about family. A much stronger thing for me, personally. Or something totally different can still happen. I'm pleased you enjoy the show's changes to Jaime (someone has to, I guess), but let's not try to pretend show-Jaime is a more complex character than he is in the books and let's not simplify what is an infinitely more complex situation than you're trying to boil it down to. It's not about sex in the books. The line that Tyrion gives him about Lancel, Kettleblack and Moon Boy only serves to inhabit his mind. He doesn't even really believe it, it just sticks in his head when he thinks about her. What really gets hammered home to him is that Cersei was only ever using him to get what she wants. He genuinely loved her, but she never really loved him in the same way. That's the dawning realisation that causes him to snap out of it. It's hardly even a straightforward redemption path he is on. He's doing what he's doing in the books to leave a better legacy than that of the dishonourable Kingslayer who did everything at Cersei's bidding. He's ultimately doing it for his own benefit. It is redemptive in that he wants to do things in a more honourable way (though he is forced to without his sword hand) and stop being Cersei's lapdog, but it is also egocentric in that it's all about him. In the show he is still doing Cersei's bidding by being in Dorne (he's even fighting again, relatively proficiently without his sword hand, rendering the whole point of his losing a hand as a device for his development completely...well...pointless!). The show has basically made his Riverlands experience with Brienne one that makes him determined to become more of a father to his offspring. That's not more complex. Nor is it better or worse than his arc in the books in and of itself, but coming as it has in the middle of the truly terrible story line they have concocted in Dorne has not helped it bring this idea through. Obviously, to judge it fully we will have to wait and see where it goes but it hasn't yet portrayed the kind of complexity you seem to claim it has. I don't expect it to, since D&D don't do themes, but I'm willing to wait and see before judging it fully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 This is what I see happening as well. Doran's plan is going to be to marry Trystane off To Dany. The fact that Tyrion left the Martells off his list of houses that may support Dany was the clincher for me. They want it to be a surprise for viewers. I'm not sure whats going to happen but I think the Dorne storyline has moved slow because there will be big reveal in the nest 2 episodes about Dorans plan, whatever it is. Was she? She talked about this - yes. In Ep 2 Ellaria says to Doran: "Let me sent her to Cersei. One finger at a time." But in the fight between the Sand Snakes and Bronn/Jamie one of the Sand Snakes did have a chance to kill her. I just rewatched the scene: It's funny. The girl with the whip (Nym) runns to Myrcella. The whip is in her right hand. Just the moment before she arrives at Myrcella she does a magic trick: she transmogrifies the whip into a knife which she uses to force Myrcella to come with her. Right in this moment she could have killed Myrcella. But she didn't. So what was Ellarias plan? Kidnap her and then mutilate her to force Cersei into war? Wouldn't killing Myrcella be enough? That scene wasn't done very well. I think plotting to kill a young innocent girl and actually going through with it are two different things. Beyond saying that I don't really see what the plan was, you kill Myrcella and then what? You know that Jaimie is there to retrieve her but you don't try to find him and expose him to Doran, to prove that the Lannisters are faithless, as if that needed proving in Dorne. Still wouldn't killing Jiamie serve the same purpose? So maybe they did plan on kidnapping Myrcella and then killing the Kingslayer when he tried to rescue her. IDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Prince Oberyn would not approve of Ellaria trying to kill Myrcella. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 So what was Ellarias plan? Kidnap her and then mutilate her to force Cersei into war? Wouldn't killing Myrcella be enough? Apparently she wanted to be good and sadistic about it. Not simply kill Myrcella but do it in an involved way that would hurt Cersei as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure10 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 He is talking to Jamie and Ellaria. This article is 8 months old http://winteriscoming.net/2014/10/20/morning-videos-osuna/ You can clearly see Jamie and Ellaria in the room together talking to Doran. Trystane and Myrcella as well, but dont see Bronn or the Sand Snakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwesteros Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Those previews HBO shows are famously edited to 'hook us in', I've found in the past. Are you quite sure Doran is talking to Jaime when he says that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure10 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 At 24 second they are all in the same room and in the same frame having what I assume to be wine and I dont recall Jamie speaking with Ellaria and Doran at any other time during the season in this sort of situation. Also it is confirmed that this scene is from 509 based on the first picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 At 24 second they are all in the same room and in the same frame having what I assume to be wine and I dont recall Jamie speaking with Ellaria and Doran at any other time during the season in this sort of situation. Also it is confirmed that this scene is from 509 based on the first picture So ellaria walks in before jamie swears it then they let jamie in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure10 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 So ellaria walks in before jamie swears it then they let jamie in. Well the video only shows them all together so we have no idea how they got there or in which order but Doran says that to Jamie and/or Ellaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William VII Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 could jamie be replacing quentyn and be sent over to dany to bring up the secret pact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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