The Night's King

[[Deleted]]

Benjen Stark is supposed to appear in Episode 10. The Night's King is also supposed to appear. If there is any connection between the Starks and the Others, I think that episode will provide some hints if not outright answers.

[GeorgeIAF]

Also, sorry for the typo (Knights Kings) :)))) I was writing fast and made the mistake, edited it.

Another thing, does anyone find the Starks as the counterparts of the Dragonlords of Valyria ? Starks reign in the Nord, a place filled with magic, while the Dragonlords ruled Valyria, a place aswell full of magic elements. While the Starks are favouring ice magic, the Dragonlords/Targaryens are fascinated by fire magic. Ice vs. Fire. Maybe the White Walkers shared a bond with the Starks through warging or something like that, just like the Valyrians/Targaryens shared a bond with the Dragons, a bond that was weakened with the extinction of the dragons, hence the difficulties Dany is having with taming them. We know that in the past, the Targs were bonded with their dragons since they were kids, in the same way the Starks were bonded with their direwolves. Maybe the Targs could even warg into their dragons, becoming one with them.

I strongly suspect there is more to the Starks/White Walkers, and we'll find out in the next season/book. There are hints everywhere that there is a strong connection between them.

[Durran Durrandon]

I half-expected him to give the "we can rule together" speech.

I had the same thought.

"Jon, join me. I am your . . um, predecessor. Maybe like your great x 100 grandfather or something. We aren't sure. I might actually be a Bolton."

[Noneofyourbusiness]

For what we know, the White Walkers can resurrect dead humans, animals etc. as wights. But when we were introduced to the Night's King, he seemed even capable of turning living babies into what ? Wights or straight White Walkers ?

Another question that crosses my mind : Every White Walker can turn the dead into wights or only the NK ? He certainly seems to be more powerful than the others, and i think he's the only one who can turn the living, hence the reason they were taking the babies to him and not turning the babies by themselves instantly.

The babies became White Walkers, as one can see from their appearance. Also, White Walkers are alive.

I think we saw another White Walker animate a wight by touching a body in an earlier episode. The Night's King did it en masse by raising his arms.

[mirthula]

I like the idea of WW being actually live things instead of undead zombies, it gives them more depth as a race of people for them to be living thinking powerful immortal beings like elves just much creepier. Obviously if that is the case if they are dead starks then that doesn't fit into this theory of them being alive.

[Fez]

I think its important to remember that in the books the White Walkers are called the Others (and I suspect they would be in the show too if not for Lost), which to me means as in they are another race apart humans. I could definitely see there being a connection between the WW and the ancient Starks of some sort, maybe make sacrifices to them or maybe they would literally go become "normal-level" WWs like Craster's sons did at their ends of their lives.

But I think the "elite-level" WWs such as the Nights King here (assuming he isn't the book character) and the "pale woman" who bewitched the book-version of the Nights Kings are not human and never were human.

[Durran Durrandon]

I think the word Others is an issue of protesting too much. They are called Others, because they were originally human.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

I like the idea of WW being actually live things instead of undead zombies, it gives them more depth as a race of people for them to be living thinking powerful immortal beings like elves just much creepier. Obviously if that is the case if they are dead starks then that doesn't fit into this theory of them being alive.

Well, it's not a theory, it's known. George Martin has said "the Others are not dead". I suppose it's possible one or two of them could be ancient Starks who became Others somehow. Or not. They are supposed to come south from the farthest north after all, well beyond Stark lands and even wildling lands.

[mirthula]

I think its important to remember that in the books the White Walkers are called the Others (and I suspect they would be in the show too if not for Lost), which to me means as in they are another race apart humans. I could definitely see there being a connection between the WW and the ancient Starks of some sort, maybe make sacrifices to them or maybe they would literally go become "normal-level" WWs like Craster's sons did at their ends of their lives.

But I think the "elite-level" WWs such as the Nights King here (assuming he isn't the book character) and the "pale woman" who bewitched the book-version of the Nights Kings are not human and never were human.

I just wish they had a unique name that is specific to GOT universe the word others and walkers all have been so over used. I don't know they should called Winter Lords or Winter Elves nahhh elves are over done too or like Winter Kings something cool that makes you only think of GOT not any other show. I really don't like this walker name because it makes it sound like they are zombies which they are not.

[WolfgangII]

It's very interesting that this "Nightking" has 13 companions, just like the Last Hero. Could it be that the Nightking is the Last Hero? We know the Last Hero (probably a Stark) lost his companions one-by-one, and found himself sourrounded by Others. Then, the Long Night ended. How did he do it? Did he defeat every White Walker or did he parlay with them? Did he transformed in a WW? I have no answers but I think there is a strong connection between the Last Hero, Bran the Builder, the Night's King (13th LC) and this "Nightking". Maybe they are the same, maybe not.

[[Deleted]]

It's very interesting that this "Nightking" has 13 companions, just like the Last Hero. Could it be that the Nightking is the Last Hero? We know the Last Hero (probably a Stark) lost his companions one-by-one, and found himself sourrounded by Others. Then, the Long Night ended. How did he do it? Did he defeat every White Walker or did he parlay with them? Did he transformed in a WW? I have no answers but I think there is a strong connection between the Last Hero, Bran the Builder, the Night's King (13th LC) and this "Nightking". Maybe they are the same, maybe not.

Well, Bran The Builder built the Wall (supposedly)... That'd be a lot easier to do if he had access to ice magic, right?

[DragonSnow]

For what we know, the White Walkers can resurrect dead humans, animals etc. as wights. But when we were introduced to the Night's King, he seemed even capable of turning living babies into what ? Wights or straight White Walkers ?

Another question that crosses my mind : Every White Walker can turn the dead into wights or only the NK ? He certainly seems to be more powerful than the others, and i think he's the only one who can turn the living, hence the reason they were taking the babies to him and not turning the babies by themselves instantly.

Also can the White Walkers be of different classes ? Maybe some are half-humans with conscience, some are just full on WW. Maybe that's the reason why the Nights King is so powerful ? He's a hybrid ?

The ability to raise the dead might be linked to the Stark's ability to warg. So only white walkers who were living Stark's at one time have the power to make zombies.

[Zuhyc]

Who says White Walkers are dead? Maybe they are just altered humans, like what they did to babies.

My theory is:

In the past, when Starks became old, they would go out "hunting" in the Winter.... But really they were going to join their ancestors, who are the "councilmen" of the Others. Do we know that there are only 12?

What if the tombs in Winterfell are empty, and this is what everyone meant when they called the old Starks the "Kings Of Winter"? Bran even remarked that their statues looked almost not human.

So, to summarize:

"Elite" Others (for lack of better word) = Old Starks

"Normal" Others = Babies who were turned.

Wights = Normal dead people.

That's what I think the NK was really doing with Jon. He wasn't taunting him, he was saying "Come join us, and embrace the power in you. It is your destiny.

Also, why do Starks get to essentially become immortal ice wizards while everyone else becomes meat shields? The answer: Warging. The Starks use their warging abilities to revive and control the dead, and in becoming Others, their warging ability increases tenfold.

So let's assume the Starks somehow forgot their link with the others. Many presume the secret died with rickard stark, but my guess is it happened earlier (maybe with the king who kneeled).

What if the others sent the direwolves to the starks to 'remind' them of their warging abilities and thus their bond with the others?

[[Deleted]]

So let's assume the Starks somehow forgot their link with the others. Many presume the secret died with rickard stark, but my guess is it happened earlier (maybe with the king who kneeled).

What if the others sent the direwolves to the starks to 'remind' them of their warging abilities and thus their bond with the others?

I like it.

Do the Others have direwolves, even resurrected ones? They must, right, since direwolves only live north of the wall and the Others seem to be able to reseurrect anything.

I recall at the Fist, one of the NW said something like "Jesus! They have a bloody bear!" or something to that effect. But direwolves? Hmm.....

Maybe it'd be too much of a giveaway.

[Prince_Snow]

Very cool to read your ideas guys, i haven't though of a Stark-White Walkers link, i don't really see it like it but it's nice to see others point of view.

Here we can totally push it in every directions, unless someone has heard GRRM say something new.

I like the idea that the White Walkers are not the bad guys, not the real threat, somehow they are also running from something to survive, from something worst.or something that make them in danger i also think that if they can have a "king", to follow they can't just be stupid zombies, they have rules, they can follow orders, they might have a society, or a kind of civilisation in the hidden lands beyond the north, and that every Winter the magic powers are increased, unleashed for a god's fight or something huge. A fight that is so old that no human being can't remember as it was never wrote, R'hllor is preparing something with melisandre her soldier on earth, he is coming back and the White Walkers need soldiers to fight him back against his own ressurected ones...hahaha

ok i'm just haveing fun here, no offense to anyone, i know it's a kind of religion to some people here, so just have fun and share your thoughts, i'd love to read it;)

[Wayate]

What if with expansion of Valyrian blood and dragons, the Others decided to conquer Westeros to protect their society, as they felt danger coming ? What if 8000 years ago, they made a truce with the Stark to protect themselves, maybe their DNA ?

Prophecies could have been misinterpreted. Lies could have been told to protect the ultimate secret of humanity. Rhaegar misinterpreted the ptwp prophecy, Lyanna accidentally died because of him, giving birth to Jon.

The Others saw it as Valyrian blood breaking the truce with humanity. Years later, dragons are born again and push the Others into defense, leading them to gather a new army and deal it.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

Benjen Stark is supposed to appear in Episode 10. The Night's King is also supposed to appear. If there is any connection between the Starks and the Others, I think that episode will provide some hints if not outright answers.

How do you know Benjen will appear?

[Waters Gate]

What was the symbol Night's King wore at his throat? I've been dying to get a closer look at it.

Yes, what was that? This is a highly significant detail imho.

I have remarked it in other threads, in some ways the others have the trappings of knighthood or nobilety. But that said, one white walker is clearly not the other, because this one for ex. had a sort of icey crown, which most other walkers don't seem to have, and besides that he had this accesory to his costume, kinda like a broche. I wondered if it was some sigil. Eitherway it's open to a lot of questions. Why should mindless zombie's adorn themselfs with such outward symbols? Is it not something that would be meant to work as it works in our world, with other words that it is something that must render prestige or authority to this white walker? For the impression is there that ultimtly he's higher up in the chain of command too.

It does look however quite non descriptive. It doesn't look liek any sigil, no'r as something easily recognizable. I did have some sort of astral vibe from it though, i guess it had somethign along the lines of cosmic elements like a comet, a planet or a star in some sort of combination.

Im really interrested about this detail, hope more people pick it up and think about it.

For reference, a picture of the "nights king" with this "broche".

http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/game-of-thrones-season-5-nights-king-hbo.jpg

[mirthula]

But who this nights king was i liked his swagger walk. He wasn't necessarily that big or tall but just had that body language of being the boss. The only Jon fought looked like warrior type. I still preferred the look of elves where they have nice pale skin and actually looked elegant not too zombie looking.

[Clariana]

I can't remember who it was but another poster had said that the others where dead starks that was the deal that was made 8000 years ago to end the war. I mean there were others existing before the war but they were too powerful to be defeated obviously 8000 years ago there were no dragons so it is not like NW relied on them to save the day. But the others themselves were not interested in eradicating the realms of men or conquering westeros they wanted to be left alone. So what changed Brandon and Rickard Starks death, how did they die they died by burning so what if some reason because of the way they died they could not join the ranks of WW which broke the peace treaty. WW started to rise up after Roberts Rebellion obviously that is when the rumours started spreading more about the dead rising and the wildlings really mad a push to leave the North. Because for 8000 years WW did nothing, if they are truly evil force it makes no sense for them to just go to sleep and be like oh yeah lets go kill people.

Imagine the moral dilemma on Jon, GRRM is all for complex characters if Jon finds out that the WW are dead Stark ancestors how can he kill them. I mean can he sue for peace knowing this truth and even if he wants to it is horrifying to know that after you die you got to become a WW that doesn't sound like a really nice way to spend your after life. Irony of it all being lord of winterfell doesn't seem so fascinating to anyone anymore, there must always be a stark in winterfell, meaning the lord of winterfell must join the others after his death. I guess the joke is on the Boltons or maybe they don't really care what they become after they die but the WW don't care for Boltons they want starks that is why they are attacking now.

Perhaps the Boltons with their skinning were preventing the Starks from becoming WW?