"For the Watch"? (Spoilers)

[Dragon_Rider]

If Jon Snow is really dead I might have to burn my future copy of The Winds of Winter.

I've said this many times, but it just wouldn't be right for JS to be dead. There's still too much that has been left unfinished. None of the mystery surrounding this character has been revealed yet, and none of it would matter if he is dead. It would be so cheap. I believe that the way Dance ended was to pave the way for Snow's exit from the Nights Watch. When he regains consciousness the watch will no longer exist.

My proof? Martin's original letter to his publisher. Yes, many things have changed since that original letter was published, but if you look at the clues in the published books Jon Snow should have an important roll in how this story ends.

Jon's not dying. Not yet anyway. All hints suggest he's the main hero of the whole ASOIAF saga. I'm pretty confident he'll die at the very end, though, in an act of sacrifice that will defeat the Others. Yeah, cliche.

[JonisHenryTudor]

I think the Pink Letter is Mandatory. Jon reads the letter and chooses to go help his family when the NW need him the most. You know what the NW does with deserters too.

When reading I was never sure that JS was actually dead, I thought we was going to go into a Bran like comma. Either way though, at the end of this series that wall is coming down and the disbanding of the NW so that will release JS of his duty there to peruse other ventures... Lord Of Winterfell, King of the North Like his brother/cousin put in his will.

Actually this episode may hint at it. We know that Ramsay is a bit of a sadist. After telling Sansa of his appointment as LC, Ramsay could have sent or already sent the PL to Jon.

[JonisHenryTudor]

The only problem I have with FTW at ep 10 is as soon as we see Kit return to filming for next season, then don't we already know he is still alive? Will they have to hide him? Or of course, the unthinkable - that Jon Snow will be killed, and become totally dead.

I wonder how they will bypass this. My guess is that they will not end on a cliffhanger and add parts from WoW, or they will have to just pretend KH doesn't exist anymore until the episode that he appears in.

The problem with pretending that he does not exist is that with so many eyes and so many hands, someone is bound to blurt out "Don't worry KH is filming for S6".

Or they simply do not care and will just carry on as usual, but that sort of makes the scene useless. In the books a cliffhanger won't be spoiled by weird stuff like cast line-ups, etc. If it ends on a cliffhanger, it ends and we wait for the next book. And that is how literature works. But on tv, the same effect would be lost, I think, so I am curious to see how they cope with it.

"OMG Jon died....riot." Two months later: "Oh Jon did not die, he is filming in Russia for scenes beyond the wall"...."WTF". I don't envy D&D for this particular scene.

As much as I hate this, I would have to argue that in order to not come off as ridiculously cheesy or poorly played, D&D will have to add stuff from WoW and the big shocker is not Jon's attack, but his big reveal.

[Survivor92]

The guys at the Wall don't know this (they weren't at Hardhome). Additionally, the stupidity of it was on full display in the books as well with regards to the wildlings (i mean, they were already south of the Wall and it was guaranteed suicide)

The guys at the wall weren't at Hardhome but how could they not hear the news? Jon will tell them and Edd and the men who were accompanying him will have some stories to tell. FTW seems even less likely when there are rumors everywhere about Jon killing an Other, Jon's stare-off with the Night King etc. In the books they assassinated a (in their view) bad decision-maker, here they are going to assassinate their only Other-slaying, Night King threatening powerhouse.

I agree that FTW was also guaranteed suicide in the books. Personally I hope that this is exactly what will happen in The Winds of Winter. Wun Wun and the Wildlings will kill most of the Night's Watch, Jon survives his wounds (due to wearing armor, possibly warging into Ghost while his body heals). The NW is disbanded and this releases Jon from his vows (until he restores the NW later after the North is secure?).

But in the books there was some foundation for FTW, a lot of great foreshadowing (and doing all the foreshadowing in E9 would be bad) and still FTW was a total surprise to me and I think most readers. In the show, even most Unsullied I've spoken to know that Olly is up to something. If Thorne is in, that would be a waste of his arc. If Olly does it, it wouldn't be a mutiny but just a traumatized kid making the worst decision of his life. If Marsh or some nameless NW men are in, then nobody knows who they are so that would also be a waste.

They really have no good way left to pull this off. We should've gotten more foreshadowing and events in episode 1-7. I really hope that D&D will pull off something amazing (still hoping for LSH reveal), but I think it'll just be cheap shock value with Olly and Marsh.

[fangirl000]

I'm not sure that Olly is as obvious as we book readers think he is. From talking to my Unsullied friend and family and listening to podcasts by Unsullied, they are basically just now starting to pick up that something ain't right with that kid. But no one suspects him of outright violence, that I've talked to. More like just trouble.

That being said I think if it is just Olly or is led by Olly, it's a terrible change and loses all the emotional significance. I mean, Olly really cannot say, "For the Watch!" More like, "For my village!" But I guess the end goal is still met.

Last night I asked my husband, who has not read the books, what he thought about Olly. He said that he didn't really care one way or the other about the kid, and saw him an audience stand-in for when Jon or Sam need to explain their reasoning. To him, Olly is a blank wall, and a necessary evil of trying to adapt complex plot for just ten episodes per season. The mutiny is going to take my husband completely by surprise, let alone any part Olly might play in it.

I wonder how they will bypass this. My guess is that they will not end on a cliffhanger and add parts from WoW, or they will have to just pretend KH doesn't exist anymore until the episode that he appears in.

They could always claim to be filming Jon flashbacks. They have that option now.

[Kabutsu]

Why are people so concerned about Jon returning to film being proof that he will resurrect/not die? Only book readers know the clues that point towards him not being actually dead - if in the show they have none of that, just Jon being stabbed and then collapsing then fade to black, then the unsullied will have no idea that he may not be dead. Then for the trailers for next season, just have scenes of dead Jon, scenes from the Wall that don't relate to his return, and scenes that take place before his return. If any unsullied notice he's on set, they'll just shrug it off and not care - Charles Dance was back on set for season 5, and no-one batted an eyelid as they all believed him to be dead (which he was of course).

The only people who'll go crazy if Jon is back on set if D&D do FTW like this is the book readers. And even then, the trailers showing Jon dead, together with this season never establishing a way for Jon to come back (no mention of warging, Mel being with Stannis, etc.), would be enough to make me at least doubt whether he actually comes back at all. Definitely there would be no confirmation that he's alive simply by his being on set.

They could always claim to be filming Jon flashbacks. They have that option now.

EDIT: This as well. There are plenty of ways for D&D to get around the apparent "KIT'S BACK ON SET HE'S DEFINITELY ALIVE THE SUSPENSE IS RUINED FOR EVERY PERSON IN THE GAME OF THRONES FAN BASE I HATE DAVID AND DAN" scenario.

[~DarkHorse~]

Jon's not dying. Not yet anyway. All hints suggest he's the main hero of the whole ASOIAF saga. I'm pretty confident he'll die at the very end, though, in an act of sacrifice that will defeat the Others. Yeah, cliche.

I've been thinking this too. The show made it clear that Jon is willing to sacrifice himself for a good cause when they had him decided to 'negotiate' with Mance last season. Mance even made a big deal about how Jon was willing to sacrifice himself.

[john666]

I have serious doubts that Jon will be stabbed at all.

I mean, how can he get stabbed, when Thorne is not going to let neither him nor his wildlings to pass the gates.

Maybe the role of Olly is not to stab Jon, but Thorne, and thereby cause a mutiny among the NW, that will have as its consequence, the passing through the gate of Jon and his wildlings .

[Jeyne's Addiction]

Will Olly be told what Ygritt meant to Jon? How will he react? Is that why he stabs Jon?

[naabi]

I don't beleive that we will see the Pink Letter, the already existent tension would be enough to lead to assassination attempt.

I mean come on, the guy have seen the Night King, the others, the massacre in hardhome, the only thing that he cares right now is the wall and the others. Nothing in the South can grab his attention after all he has been through in the last episode.

[john666]

Will Olly be told what Ygritt meant to Jon? How will he react? Is that why he stabs Jon?

How will Olly stab him, if he is on the other side of the Wall?

[Philpenn]

If they go the wargs into Ghost route, I'm wondering how well it will work in show form. Book form you're inside Jon's head, but will Ghost growl and then Jon's thoughts appear subtitled at the bottom of the screen?

[Sons of Winter]

In this article Kit said that viewers can't count on Jon Snow being safe on GOT

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/02/kit-harington-jon-snow-game-of-thrones_n_7494360.html

Pretty good read

[Jeyne's Addiction]

How will Olly stab him, if he is on the other side of the Wall?

Jon is unlikely to be on the other side of the wall, obviously, if there is to be any kind of stabbing, unless the stabbers come to him for some reason. I suppose Olly could shoot him with an arrow, but that would be a hell of a shot from the top of the wall, and we've seen Jon survive three arrows before.

[john666]

Jon is unlikely to be on the other side of the wall, obviously, if there is to be any kind of stabbing, unless the stabbers come to him for some reason. I suppose Olly could shoot him with an arrow, but that would be a hell of a shot from the top of the wall, and we've seen Jon survive three arrows before.

Yes, and that brings us tom the question, How will Jon pass the Wall?

Two options;

Either mutiny among the NW, or invasion of the giant and the wildlings.

[Sub_Zero94]

dp.

[Sub_Zero94]

The show has presented them very little reason to stab Jon.

I mean, in aDwD it was built up on several levels. In particular , Marsh and company's fear of the Iron Throne, because Stannis had such a small force and was in no position to be a challenge should The Iron Throne send a host of Lannister/Tyrells north to finish him.. And then kill all the Night's watch in the process for aiding traitors. Also, there is no sign that Northern houses have sworn for Stannis in the show. In the book, by this time the Karstarks swore for him.(we know what that was about, but it would have shown the Watch that Stannis had some support) ..

[Jeyne's Addiction]

Yes, and that brings us tom the question, How will Jon pass the Wall?

Two options;

Either mutiny among the NW, or invasion of the giant and the wildlings.

Oooor then let the Wildlings through, because their Lord Commander says so. This seems mostly likely to me.

[RGBeyondAsshai]

Alliser still hates Jon. A lot of the Night's Watch is grouchy now due to the presence of Wildlings, because none of them seem to be able to see the bigger picture ie ZOMBIES and ICE PEOPLE! Also Bowen may have been mentioned, but the camera has spent the entire season on Olly. No one knows Bowen is super frustrated about the wildlings or the food supply or anything. They know Alliser is mean and Olly is a ptsd kid with emotional issues and a good aim and is Jon's personal steward no less. The camera time makes me think Olly isn't a red herring, and that he will be the one crying when he says for the watch while the mean rapers get stabby.

[john666]

Oooor then let the Wildlings through, because their Lord Commander says so. This seems mostly likely to me.

Thorne said to Sam that he is losing all his friends, and we see in the promo Thorne looking below at Jon and his friends, with a harsh look.

I don't think Thorne will let them through.