AGoT Re-read Timeline

[The Adequate Jon]

I thought it would be fun to do a timeline. Here's what I have so far. Feel free to criticize or offer suggestions or time clues I may have missed. I started on Jan 1 because I needed a place to start. Jon Arryn died a fortnight after Joffrey's (or possibly Tommen's) nameday tournament, so if we figure out his nameday, we can figure out when to start.

ETA Originally, I started on 1/1/298, but I've since revised it so that Joffrey's and Margery's wedding will take place on 1/1/300.

Oct 31, 297 - Prologue

Mar 15, 298 - Dany I, Dany betrothed to Drogo

May 10 - Joffrey's nameday

May 24 - Jon Arryn Dies

Mar 30 - Dany II, Dany weds Drogo

May 31 - Bran I, Gared executed, wolves are found

May 31 - Cat I, news of Arryn's death arrives, King is coming

Jun 7 - King's party leaves for WF

Jun 30 - Aug 24 - Dany III, Dany gets pregnant, Khalasar crosses the Dothraki Sea

Aug 24 - Dany's Nameday

Sep 5 - Ned I, King's party arrives at WF

Sep 5 - Jon I, welcoming feast

Sep 10 - Cat II, Lysa's letter arrives, Ned decides to accept Handship

Sep 11 - Arya I, Arya escapes from sewing lesson

Sep 23 - Bran II, Bran falls

Sep 27 - Tyrion I, Tyrion slaps Joffrey

Oct 6 - Jon II, Jon says bye to Bran, Robb, Arya. Gives Arya Needle. Jon leaves for Wall. Ned and others leave for KL.

Oct 14 - Cat III, some man tries to kill Bran.

Oct 18 - Cat decides to go to KL.

Oct 24 - Tyrion II, traveling to the Wall somewhere in the mountains north of the Wolfswood

Oct 26 - Jon, Tyrion, and Benjen arrive at the Wall

Oct 27 - Ned II, traveling to KL somewhere in Barrowlands, news of Dany's wedding arrives

Oct 31 - Benjen leaves to search for Ser Waymar Royce's party

Nov 25 - Jon's Nameday

Dec 7 - Bran III, Bran wakes up

Dec 9 - Jon III, Jon in training, gets a talk from Donal Noye, gets letter about Bran

Dec 10 - Tyrion III, Tyrion's last night at the Wall

Dec 11 - Tyrion leaves the Wall

Dec 15 - Sansa I, Arya throws Joffrey's sword into Trident

Dec 19 - Ned III, Lady killed

Dec 22 - Dany IV, Khalasar arrives in Vas Dothrak

Dec 24 - Bran IV, Tyrion arrives at Winterfell and gives them plans for Bran's saddle

Dec 26 - Cat IV, Cat and Rodrik arrive in Kingslanding

Jan 2, 299 - Ned IV, Ned arrives in Kingslanding

Jan 3 - Cat leaves Kingslanding

Jan 7 - Jon IV, Sam arrives at the Wall

Jan 10 - Arya II, Arya starts her lessons with Syrio

Jan 12 - Ned V, Ned talks to Maester Pycelle

Jan 17 - Cat V, Cat captures Tyrion at Crossroads Inn

Jan 22 - Ned VI, Ned meets Gendry

Jan 27 - Tyrion IV, Tyrion being taken through the mountains toward the Vale

Jan 27 - Sansa II, The Hand's Tournament

Jan 28 - Ned VII, Second day of tournament

Jan 29 - Arya III, Arya overhears Illyrio and Varys

Jan 30 - Ned VIII, Ned resigns as Hand

Jan 31 - Dany V, Viserys is "crowned"

Feb 3 - Ned IX, Jaime's men attack Ned on their way back from the brothel

Feb 4 - Cat VI, Cat reaches the Vale

Feb 4 - Dany VI, Jorah saves Dany from an assassination attempt

Feb 9 - Bran V, Bran goes riding, almost kidnapped

Feb 9 - Ned X, TOJ Flashback, Ned wakes up

Feb 9 - Tyrion V, Tyrion asks for trial by combat

Feb 10 - Jaime arrives at Casterly Rock and starts raising his army

Feb 13 - Cat VII, Bronn and Ser Vardis fight in trial by combat

Feb 14 - Tyrion VI, Tyrion and Bronn meet the Stone Crows

Feb 15 - Robb calls the banners after hearing that Jaime is raising an army

Feb 17 - The Mountain starts maurauding in the Riverlands

Feb 23 - Ned XI, Ned sends Beric after the Mountain

Feb 23 - Sansa III, Ned tells the girls they're leaving Kingslanding

Mar 1 - Ned XII, Ned confronts Cercei in the godswood

Mar 3 - Ned XIII, Robert mortally wounded, Ned asks LF for help

Mar 4 - Ned XIV, Robert is dead, Ned is betrayed by LF

Mar 4 - Arya IV, Syrio saves Arya from Lannister guards and Trant

Mar 6 - Sansa IV, Sansa is forced to write letters telling of Ned's guilt

Mar 11 - Jon V, Jon talks to Aemon about Sam

Mar 12 - Sansa's letters arrive at Winterfell

Mar 13 - Jon VI, Jon and Sam say their vows

Mar 14 - Jon VII, Jon hears about Ned, saves Mormont from wights

Mar 15 - Sansa V, Joffrey's first court session, Sansa asks for leniency for Ned

Mar 16 - Dany VII, Battle at Lhasareen, Drogo wounded

Mar 17 - Bran VI, The last of the bannermen arrive at Winterfell

Mar 18 - Dany VIII, Drogo near death, MMD does her blood magic

Mar 19 - Robb's army starts marching south

Mar 23 - Ned XV, Varys visits Ned in the Black Cells

Mar 25 - The battle at The Golden Tooth

Mar 28 - Jon VIII, Mormont gives Jon Longclaw

Apr 2 - Cat VIII, Cat meets Robb's army at Moat Cailin

Apr 2 - Renly arrives in Highgarden

Apr 15 - Arya V, Ned is killed

Apr 17 - Cat IX, Cat meets with Walder Frey

Apr 19 - Tyrion VII, Tyrion meets Tywin near Trident, Bolton marching south to attack

Apr 22 - Bran VII, Word of Ned's death reaches Winterfell

Apr 23 - Jon IX, Jon tries to desert but is stopped by his friends

Apr 24 - Tyrion VIII, Battle between Tywin and Roose Bolton

Apr 24 - Cat X, Battle of the Whispering Wood

Apr 25 - Cat XI, Robb proclaimed "King in the North!"

Apr 29 - Tyrion IX, Tyrion is sent to KL to act as Hand

May 1 - Sansa VI, Joffrey shows Sansa Ned's head

May 3 - Dany IX, Dany is recovering from her miscarriage, she smothers Drogo

May 4 - Dany X, The dragons are born

[Barba]

There is 'Distances-The forbidden thread' in FFC re-read forum. In it is presumed that Raven travels 100 leagues a day, and one guy (wonder who) made tabel. Check it out. By that Raven would get from KL to Winterfell in 6 days.

Now, Cat 1 is IMO same day as Bran1 (March 1). Then jon Arryn died at 22-23 feb

EDIT: Jon Arryn died 14 days after Joff's nameday. His nameday is also in Sansa 1 CoK chapter. That probably means GOT takes place in one year IMO

[Spring Bass]

Using the map, I measured the length of the the King's Road on it from from Wintefell to King's Landing, then compared it to several of the straight-line distances in the chart in the "Distances" thread. The distance on the road is bloody 2520 miles, assuming they travelled by land and road the whole way. Even if the King's Group makes 15 miles a day (which is I think a big if, since they probably stopped at various holdfasts on the way, not to mention that they are loaded down with a baggage train and accident-prone wheelhouse), that's still a 168-day long travel time between Winterfell and King's Landing, minimum.

That means that Bran may have been unconscious for quite some time, and Tyrion, counting his travels to the Wall, followed by travelling all the way to the Neck after spending some time in the company of the Night's Watch, could very well have been gone (after leaving the King's company in Winterfell, and before being captured by Catelyn) the better part of a normal year.

Travel times can really do some funky stuff with our timelines, although we do know that three years passed between the King's Visit to Winterfell and the brief revolt under Arianne in AFfC, since Myrcella is "not quite eight" at the time of the King's Visit, and "not quite eleven" when we first see Arys Oakheart go and screw Arianne.

[The Adequate Jon]

I fixed Jon Arryn's death date.

I can't remeber now, but does the book say they got the letter about Jon Arryn by raven. Maybe it came by rider. That would explain why Ned was so worried about not having enough time to prepare for Robert's visit. It still doesn't resolve the problem of having all of AGoT taking place before Joffrey's next nameday. If they actually average 15 miles per day, that's 11 months round-trip. For my timeline to work, they need to do 25 to 30 miles per day.

[Barba]

Wll Jon was like a father to Ned. And most messages so far travel by ravens. Plus at the time there are no wars or such so it would not make sense to give it to a rider. IIRC in AGOT first part is slower because of travels. I don't think travels are so frequent later (althrough Cat travels almost whole novel)

[Spring Bass]

I fixed Jon Arryn's death date.

I can't remeber now, but does the book say they got the letter about Jon Arryn by raven. Maybe it came by rider. That would explain why Ned was so worried about not having enough time to prepare for Robert's visit. It still doesn't resolve the problem of having all of AGoT taking place before Joffrey's next nameday. If they actually average 15 miles per day, that's 11 months round-trip. For my timeline to work, they need to do 25 to 30 miles per day.

I suspect that more than one year passed in the period of AGoT, plus we know that events overlap between books (such as the death of Balon and Euron's Ascencion happening around the time that Robb is about to go north to the Twins).

One possible way to cut time is if they travelled part of the way back south via boat down the Green fork to where the King's Road meets the River Road, then travelled south to King's Landing. There's no mention of that, though.

I just can't see Robert's group pulling 25-30 miles average per day, even with perfect roads and good weather. Considering that it's the King's own group, they'd probably stop to feast and meet with several lords on the way north for political reasons, stop to get supplies, stop to fix the wheelhouse, and the like. Maybe 20 miles a day, although that's still doubtful.

[The Adequate Jon]

Average walking speed is about 3 MPH. If they walk for 12 hours, that would be 36 miles. It's still summertime, so it would be light for maybe 14 hours. That's 42 miles. If they can limit the number of stops, 25 to 30 miles per day may be possible. For now, I'm going with 3 months from KL to WF.

[Maester Yobjascz]

Average walking speed is about 3 MPH. If they walk for 12 hours, that would be 36 miles. It's still summertime, so it would be light for maybe 14 hours. That's 42 miles. If they can limit the number of stops, 25 to 30 miles per day may be possible. For now, I'm going with 3 months from KL to WF.

Wow... you've never been backpacking, have you.

The trip down the Kingsroad is NOT going for speed... it's a kingly procession in peacetime. Let's assume you're right for the moment, at least as far as walking speed and daylight hours go. So, it's 3mph and 14 hours. We'll further assume that they start getting up pre-dawn. By the time the nobles are roused, servants have already groomed horses and prepared breakfast. Nobles rise at dawn, get dressed, and eat. Then they need to get ready for the days travel. Servants pull down tents, roll them, repack all the clothes, books, drinks, whatever that the nobles unpacked the night before. These all have to be repacked on wagons, horses, etc. With several hundred people total, I doubt they get on the road until a few hours after dawn. The train probably stops from time to time, to allow for rest, repair of the inevitable broken wagon wheel, lamed horse, etc. I doubt that lunch is on the go... To stop, unpack, prep meals, and repack, probably eats up another 2-3 hours. Camping for the night is where most of the time goes. Even assuming they've got scouts ahead whose only mission is to find a suitable spot for a few hundred tents, once the train arrives at the chosen site, you've got a hundred nobles fighting over who camps where. Latrines have to be dug, cooking sites established, horses groomed, grained, and checked. This takes time.... probably 3-4 hours before sundown.

Rushing then, they start 2 hours after dawn, break 2 hours for lunch, and setup camp 3 hours before sunset. Add a miscellaneous hour for rest stops and the like, and they've killed 8 of 14 daylight hours, leaving 6 hours actual travel time. This means 18 miles a day, assuming that they don't stop at local lords en route for a couple of days, and they avoid major breakdowns. Further, remember that some sections, notably the Neck, is swampish and will considerably slow progress. That said, solid research has shown the distance from King's Landing to Winterfell to be 530 leagues... this is roughly 1600 miles. At 18 miles per day, that's a bare minimum of 90 days, or three months.

More realistically, they use the other end for timing... leaving them with 4 hours per day travel... at 3 mph average, yielding 12 miles per day... the trip takes 133 days. Assuming various stoppages and slowdowns, I'd estimate the total trip to take 5 months total. (Note that if the average speed drops to 2mph, they only cover 8mi/day, and the trip takes a minimum of 200 days, or almost 9 months...)

[Spring Bass]

That 530 league distance is only "as the raven flies", meaning that it is essentially a straight-line distance. My estimate of the 2500 mile road journey was based off of measuring the length of the stretch of road on the map between Winterfell and King's Landing, then comparing it with some of the straight-line distances between various locations on the chart.

As for my time measurement, I based it off of historical travel times and land speeds from the Middle Ages. Better roads and weather might add a few miles per day (from the English average of about 18 Km a day), but they still would be hard-pressed to go beyond 20 miles per day.

[The Adequate Jon]

I tried to measure the distance of the road from KL to WF and came up with 550 leagues or about 1900 miles. Let's call it 2000 miles because it's hard to measure around curves. At 20 miles a day, that's 100 days. At 15 miles a day, that's 133 days. I'll adjust the timeline so that it takes 4 month for Robert to get to Winterfell. If this causes problems later, we can always readjust it.

And, no I've never been backpaking, especially with a king and his court.

[Maester Yobjascz]

Another thing I just remembered... When Cat tells Eddard about the King's visit, Eddard is worried about being able to get everything done in time... and that's because Robert is already on his way at the time the letter arrives. I don't have the book with me, but it's at the end of Cat I... Ned says something like "He's already on his way?" follwed by the "damn his royal hide" line.

I don't remember if Cat mentions whether the letter arrived by rider or raven, but I'd assume that the message left at the same time the king did... it doesn't make sense to send it afterwards, and to send it before would mean that the king hadn't left. The king had left, according to the letter, so I'd assume the letter was sent the same day as the king left.

[Spring Bass]

2000 miles is probably pretty good (I got 2500 by using a piece of thin cord placed on the road length for measurement, then comparing it to the straight line distances between some of the prominent places).

The Catelyn chapter I that has the above says the news of the King coming north came with news of Jon Arryn's death. It never specifically says if this is a raven or messenger, but a raven seems more likely.

Also, there was an interesting comment near the end of the chapter. It's not definitive, but it gives us some possibilities on travel time. Ned says that Robert will keep an easy pace for Cersei and the children. That might hint at greater travel time than thought.

[The Adequate Jon]

It doesn't look like the timeline is going to make sense. If we assume a 4-month travel time from KL to WF, Ned doesn't get to KL until Dec 6. That leaves just two months before Joffrey's next nameday which is in the beginning of ACOK. We may just have to assume that the people and horses of Westeros are faster than the people and horses of the real world.

[Spring Bass]

Like I said, it's never exactly described how they traveled on the way back south of the Trident. It's possible that they traveled down the Green Fork to the River Road-King's Road crossroads and then went south (which would probably shave some significant time off of their journey, as well as nulling a number of stops and problems).

[Maester Yobjascz]

It doesn't look like the timeline is going to make sense. If we assume a 4-month travel time from KL to WF, Ned doesn't get to KL until Dec 6. That leaves just two months before Joffrey's next nameday which is in the beginning of ACOK. We may just have to assume that the people and horses of Westeros are faster than the people and horses of the real world.

That's not necessarily true. Granted, the timeline doesn't work if you force it to certain, arbitrary constraints. But they're arbitrary, so screw 'em. There's a way to make sense of all of this...

Ok, so we've fixed Jon Arryn's death as Feb. 22. We know Joffrey's nameday is a fortnight earlier... so Feb. 8. Our only other fixtures are the travel time, and the knowledge that Robert was on his way to Winterfell when the letter announcing Jon Arryn's death (and the King's visit) reached Eddard. That's it.

As the timeline currently has it, Eddard receives word that Robert is on his way a week before the King actually leaves... and has the King's party staying at Winterfell for a full month. I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I think we can shave nearly a full month here.

First, have Robert leave King's Landing a week, maybe a week and a half after Arryn's death. Once Lord Arryn died, Lysa and Robert fled to the Eyrie. With them gone, there was no basis for a long wake, as was the case with Lord Tywin... I'm sure Robert mourned his loss for a few days... but then the small council saw the immediate need for a new hand. Robert was not one to effectively govern without one. Robert seems to have turned to Eddard immediately. The decision made, Robert had plenty of servants capable of putting the trip together *very* quickly. This puts the King's party leaving for Winterfell on March 2.

The letter is sent as the King left. Give a couple of days travel time for the raven, and Cat I takes place around March 4. Assuming a 4-month trip, the party arrives at Winterfell around July 2.

Second, I doubt they stayed a month. They arrived July 2. Robert visits the crypt, and the welcoming feast is that night. The next two days would span Cat II and Arya I. The third full day of the visit, July 5, is Bran II. We only hear of one hunting trip, and I doubt Robert would've been kept occupied for more than just a couple of days without hunting/drinking/wenching his way into trouble, and we would've heard about that from Eddard, Cat, or Tyrion. But we don't. So I don't think they were there long before Bran II.

Once Bran is thrown, the return trip is delayed. I don't recall how long Tyrion I claims Bran had been unconscious, but I seem to remember not more than 3-4 days. It was that Bran survived that long that Luwin thought he would survive. This puts Tyrion I around July 9. The Starks pack up relatively quickly... Arya was *repacking* in the hours before they left... I'd say Eddard & Robert left for King's Landing around July 11.

Four months later, they arrive November 11. This leaves them three full months for the remainder of AGoT...

Cat reaches KL - November 18

Cat leaves KL - November 21

Hand's Tourney - December 10

Cat reaches the Crossroads - November 30

Cat reaches the Eyrie - January 14

Tyrion's Trial - Jan 16

Tyrion 'escapes' the Eyrie - Jan 16

Tyrion reaches Tywin's army - Jan 26

Tywin battles Bolton - Jan. 28

Robb lifts siege at Riverrun, captures Jaime Lannister - Jan 30

Tyrion leaves for King's Landing - Feb. 2

Joffrey's Name Day - Feb 8

Tyrion arrives at King's Landing - Feb 10

These then are the dates that fall out... seems to work okay. I calculated the dates based on the distances thread, and speeds of 5mph for 10hrs/day for Cat/Rodrick travelling on horse. Speed dropped to 30mph when Tyrion is captured/travel through Mountains of the Moon...

[Barba]

Nice, only one problem. Cat2 is 2-3 days after feast, because Maester Luwin says Ben came and asked about Jon joining the wall few days earlier.

[Spring Bass]

Gaaah! Disregard everything I said about the length of the road; George has said it isn't to scale, on purpose. Oops.

[The Adequate Jon]

Second, I doubt they stayed a month. They arrived July 2. Robert visits the crypt, and the welcoming feast is that night. The next two days would span Cat II and Arya I. The third full day of the visit, July 5, is Bran II. We only hear of one hunting trip, and I doubt Robert would've been kept occupied for more than just a couple of days without hunting/drinking/wenching his way into trouble, and we would've heard about that from Eddard, Cat, or Tyrion. But we don't. So I don't think they were there long before Bran II.

The reason for them staying a month was 1, what Barba said, and 2, Ned says they'll need a fortnight to prepare for the journey to KL. In Bran II, he's planning on leaving the next day. The Jon chapter says Cat's been at Bran's bedside for nearly a fortnight. We can shave a little time here if you assume that Ned is exaggerating about how long it will take to prepare for the journey. you're right about the arbitrary dates. We'll make it work one way or another.

ETA: According to Ran, GRRM may have reversed himself about the maps being to scale.

[Maester Yobjascz]

Yeah... looked over the dates a bit when I got home to my copy of AGoT... more time passed then I remembered. Oh well...

It's possible that, were everyone ahorse, they might be able to average a higher speed... or the road is simply shorter than we've calculated...

[Spring Bass]

That's a relief to know that the AFfC map is considered "to-scale"; that was the map I used for the measurements.

I measured out the mapped road, which doesn't take into account things like minor detours and the like. If anything, the King's Road is probably longer than shown on the map, although not by much.

I think the "ahorse" solution may be an answer. We know that he has about 100 knights, plus freeriders, who are presumably riding on horseback most of the time that travelling is done. Cersei and her children are in the Wheelhouse, along with some retainers, most like. That would certainly give them a faster rate than walking, but we still have to account for the fact that Ned said that Robert would be going easy, for Cersei and his children's sake, along with the fact that the Wheelhouse apparently was stopping frequently for wheel and axle problems.