[Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.3

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

Apparently the whole thing doesn't make sense using real world genetics. But anyway in-universe black hair does not always win out over lighter hair. Otherwise the paternity of Cersei's children would have been obvious to everybody. Jon Arryn discovered that historically the Baratheon black hair gene was always winning out over other hair colors, even when Baratheons married Lannisters. So it really shouldn't be a problem. Maybe the black hair skipped a generation or something. I doubt the show producers will worry about it. They seemed to give up dying Jaime's hair blonde after season one. 

It wasn't just Jaime's hair that stopped being blonde. Tyrion's hair started out pale blonde in the first season and now it's a almost like a dark brownish red. 

The biggest evidence that this show doesn't give a shit about hair color was when they decided to make Shireen as blonde as can be. After all the fuss about Baratheon's producing dark haired children and this being the only leg that Stannis has to stand on in terms of proving the paternity the showrunners had to go and give him a blonde daughter. 

Normally I don't get hung up on stuff like hair and eye color but it was too ridiculous to not have a dark haired Shireen. Put a wig on the actress if they thought that girl was best for the role, jeez. Stuff like that is just lazy. 

[Suzanna Stormborn]

GOT Season 1 Episode 8

TYrion shows up with the storm crows right before the first battle with Robb Stark.  Shagga demands that Tywin let them hold TYrion ransom until they get their weapons and when they fight in the battle.  Then he put them in the VanGuard just like the books, basically saying idgaf if TYrion dies, just like he does in the books.  By contrast, when Robb captures Jaime on HBO Tywin just flips out "They have my SON!!".

He cares much more for his true born son Jaime than Tyrion who is Aerys' son

[A spoon of knife and fork]

6 hours ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I think Rhaegar was mentioned by name from Robert B and Jorah in season 1.  Do not recall him since then. Dany has basically never mentioned him either (sigh).  She said to Tyrion 'your brother who killed my father?" last season, but no Rhaegar lol.

They are going to have a hard time selling Jon as rhaegar and lyannas son.  I mean Jon (Kit Harrington the actor) has very dark brown/black hair right?  They established the thing about hair color on the show when Ned discovered Joff was not Robert's......So Rhaegar (in the upcoming flashbaskcs) will have the same hair color as Dany and Viserys.  And we just saw that Lyanna has (naturally) light brown and blonde ombre hair.  So where the shit did Jon's dark hair and eyes come from?

Dude a Rhaegar was name dropped like 94 times last season.  Also way more than once previous seasons.  And Barristan and Dany had a conversation about Rhaegars love of the harp last season, and how he was more a poet than a warrior... 

You can hate the show all you like but at least try to be correctly informed.  

[A spoon of knife and fork]

3 hours ago, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

It wasn't just Jaime's hair that stopped being blonde. Tyrion's hair started out pale blonde in the first season and now it's a almost like a dark brownish red. 

The biggest evidence that this show doesn't give a shit about hair color was when they decided to make Shireen as blonde as can be. After all the fuss about Baratheon's producing dark haired children and this being the only leg that Stannis has to stand on in terms of proving the paternity the showrunners had to go and give him a blonde daughter. 

Normally I don't get hung up on stuff like hair and eye color but it was too ridiculous to not have a dark haired Shireen. Put a wig on the actress if they thought that girl was best for the role, jeez. Stuff like that is just lazy. 

It can take hours to put a wig on correctly.  given the time she already had to spend in makeup for her condition and the limited hours kids are allowed to work I strongly suspect that time was the issue, not "laziness".

[Suzanna Stormborn]

13 minutes ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

Dude a Rhaegar was name dropped like 94 times last season.  Also way more than once previous seasons.  And Barristan and Dany had a conversation about Rhaegars love of the harp last season, and how he was more a poet than a warrior... 

You can hate the show all you like but at least try to be correctly informed.  

94 times? I can think of three times in season 5, Barristan is telling the story of how they got drunk and again about killing people, and LF mentions him in the Harrnehall tourney story.  Prior to that he is mentioned by name maybe 3 times in Season 1-4.  Feel free to look it up.

ETA: And I dont hate the show, Seasons1-3 were soooo good, since then I am still super excited to watch it every week.  but it has steadily gotten worse and worse, somehow the main characters now are Cersei, Ellaria and Ramsay. I'm so happy to see JOn brought back but it was super boring and lackluster. even  tyrion approaching the dragons, which I have been dying to see was lame.  And Dany is so 1-dimensional.  I have always been routing for it to be good, but D&D have beaten it out of me with inconsistencies and really ridiculous plotlines that make zero sense........ Somehow I dont really believe they are going to do Dany, JOn and Tyrion justice with the whole Targaryen thing, that's just me. But it started with Lyanna's freaking blonde hair this past sunday!!

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

1 hour ago, A spoon of knife and fork said:

It can take hours to put a wig on correctly.  given the time she already had to spend in makeup for her condition and the limited hours kids are allowed to work I strongly suspect that time was the issue, not "laziness".

Fair enough but I find it hard to believe that there weren't multiple talented brunette actresses who could have filled the role. 

Considering that we had seasons worth of issues over the problem of the royal Baratheon children being blonde and how that was the 'proof' that they're bastards, it makes little to no sense to me that they wouldn't have cast a brunette Shireen since Stannis's proof is completely tied into the hair color of Cersei's children. 

[Newstar]

39 minutes ago, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

Fair enough but I find it hard to believe that there weren't multiple talented brunette actresses who could have filled the role. 

Considering that we had seasons worth of issues over the problem of the royal Baratheon children being blonde and how that was the 'proof' that they're bastards, it makes little to no sense to me that they wouldn't have cast a brunette Shireen since Stannis's proof is completely tied into the hair color of Cersei's children. 

Eh, they clearly cast for talent instead of hair colour, and I'm glad they did. Kerry Ingram was a flawless Shireen and I won't hear otherwise. 

Besides, the show fares better with actors when they cast for talent instead of the precise physical look for the character: Gwendoline Christie and Peter Dinklage are not ugly, Alfie Allen is a blonde with unconventional features as opposed to a handsome brunette, Iain Glen is a lean, handsome blonde instead of a bearish, plain brunette, Sophie Turner's a blonde, Lena Headey and Peter Dinklage are brunettes, Art Parkinson and Isaac Hempstead Wright don't have auburn hair, etc. etc. Some of the worst performances on the show have been from actors who seem to have been cast purely on the strength of having a certain physical look, not that I will name names, and some of the best are from actors who are totally wrong for their part physically (too good-looking, not good-looking enough, too tall, too short, etc.). Looks are overrated.

...With that said, unless there was an issue with the amount of time in the chair for prosthetics and child labour laws, they could have just slapped a wig on Kerry Ingram. They got one for Jaqen, after all.

[Jô Maltese]

Now that Jon has come back from the dead, this thread may enlighten you on what may happen next...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/102197-the-ash-the-chestnut-and-the-oak-jons-3-lives/&do=findComment&comment=5300760

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

On 5/4/2016 at 10:44 PM, Newstar said:

Eh, they clearly cast for talent instead of hair colour, and I'm glad they did. Kerry Ingram was a flawless Shireen and I won't hear otherwise. 

Besides, the show fares better with actors when they cast for talent instead of the precise physical look for the character: Gwendoline Christie and Peter Dinklage are not ugly, Alfie Allen is a blonde with unconventional features as opposed to a handsome brunette, Iain Glen is a lean, handsome blonde instead of a bearish, plain brunette, Sophie Turner's a blonde, Lena Headey and Peter Dinklage are brunettes, Art Parkinson and Isaac Hempstead Wright don't have auburn hair, etc. etc. Some of the worst performances on the show have been from actors who seem to have been cast purely on the strength of having a certain physical look, not that I will name names, and some of the best are from actors who are totally wrong for their part physically (too good-looking, not good-looking enough, too tall, too short, etc.). Looks are overrated.

...With that said, unless there was an issue with the amount of time in the chair for prosthetics and child labour laws, they could have just slapped a wig on Kerry Ingram. They got one for Jaqen, after all.

With all of those other actors hair color wasn't integral to the story, so it isn't the same to me. I agree that they're all great choices and don't care about something like Alfie Allen not looking at all the way that I picture book Theon to look. Same with Lena Headey and others. I remember people freaking out that they didn't cast blonde actresses for Cersei and Dany and never saw what the big deal was. With Shireen, the showrunners had options but chose instead to ignore the details that they went out of their way to include in the first season and later decided that the rules they established didn't matter. 

I certainly agree that Kerry Ingram did a great job. My complaint was that it made Stannis's argument seem like it made no sense. This is a case where it would have been worth it to go the extra mile in my opinion. 

Quote

But it started with Lyanna's freaking blonde hair this past sunday!!

Yeah, she looks nothing like how I picture Lyanna. The actress is pretty but I'm not getting that 'wild beauty' vibe. 

[UnmaskedLurker]

6 hours ago, Rhaechyll Targaryen said:

With all of those other actors hair color wasn't integral to the story, so it isn't the same to me. I agree that they're all great choices and don't care about something like Alfie Allen not looking at all the way that I picture book Theon to look. Same with Lena Headey and others. I remember people freaking out that they didn't cast blonde actresses for Cersei and Dany and never saw what the big deal was. With Shireen, the showrunners had options but chose instead to ignore the details that they went out of their way to include in the first season and later decided that the rules they established didn't matter. 

I certainly agree that Kerry Ingram did a great job. My complaint was that it made Stannis's argument seem like it made no sense. This is a case where it would have been worth it to go the extra mile in my opinion. 

Yeah, she looks nothing like how I picture Lyanna. The actress is pretty but I'm not getting that 'wild beauty' vibe. 

I think you nailed the distinction. The issue is "internal consistency" rather than consistency with the books. I don't expect entire adherence to details of the books. But the internal logic of the show should work. The show includes as a major plot point in Season 1 the same plot point from Book 1 -- that Baratheon children have dark hair. Now perhaps the way to try to explain the apparent contradiction is that they only stated that whenever a Baratheon mixed with a Lannister, it resulting in dark hair -- not that all Baratheon offspring had dark hair. And Shireen's mother is not a Lannister. So maybe from a narrow technically logical point of view, it still works -- but that is splitting hairs. How expensive is a bottle of hair dye?

Oh, and assuming eventually there will be a TJT reveal -- they really should have kept Tyrion's hair lighter -- but maybe Peter objected.

[RumHam]

I really didn't want to believe that Arthur Dayne dual-wielding rumor. Oh well. And Bloodraven has been there for a thousand years? Odd.

[Newstar]

So we received confirmation tonight from the prophetic Three Eyed Raven that Bran will leave the cave, echoing what Leaf said in the last episode: "You won't be here forever. You won't be an old man in a tree."

[Newstar]

So we received confirmation tonight from the prophetic Three Eyed Raven that Bran will leave the cave, echoing what Leaf said in the last episode: "You won't be here forever. You won't be an old man in a tree."

[shk12344]

32 minutes ago, Newstar said:

So we received confirmation tonight from the prophetic Three Eyed Raven that Bran will leave the cave, echoing what Leaf said in the last episode: "You won't be here forever. You won't be an old man in a tree."

The cave will be getting special visitors,

http://1130thetiger.com/game-of-thrones-season-6-white-walkers-featurette/

[shk12344]

Double Post

[shk12344]

Triple Post

[Suzanna Stormborn]

SO Howland Reed Stabbed Dayne in the back?? Woah Woah was not expecting that!!

And Jon just walked away from his Night's watch Vows? No one even stopped him.  Lol We've all spent so much time discussing how it will  happen in the books, and they just simplified it big time.  Just walked out lol.

 

[MtnLion]

12 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

SO Howland Reed Stabbed Dayne in the back?? Woah Woah was not expecting that!!

And Jon just walked away from his Night's watch Vows? No one even stopped him.  Lol We've all spent so much time discussing how it will  happen in the books, and they just simplified it big time.  Just walked out lol.

 

I would not expect much resistance form anyone, since they are all pretty sure that Jon is a god. 

Howland has a pretty severe abdominal wound, which is going to lead to a lot of problems with how the story goes forward.  The show had one less person on each side, 2 KG, 6 counting Ned.  That will be six cairns to build from the tower and likely Ned working alone.  (I missed the subtext saying that it was Lynanna or a woman screaming, need to review that, tonight.)  Well, Ned told it true, Arthur would indeed kill him saved by Howland.  Howland grew an awful lot between written and onscreen, though.  (Same with Meera and Jojen.) 

[Suzanna Stormborn]

2 minutes ago, MtnLion said:

I would not expect much resistance form anyone, since they are all pretty sure that Jon is a god. 

Howland has a pretty severe abdominal wound, which is going to lead to a lot of problems with how the story goes forward.  The show had one less person on each side, 2 KG, 6 counting Ned.  That will be six cairns to build from the tower and likely Ned working alone.  (I missed the subtext saying that it was Lynanna or a woman screaming, need to review that, tonight.)  Well, Ned told it true, Arthur would indeed kill him saved by Howland.  Howland grew an awful lot between written and onscreen, though.  (Same with Meera and Jojen.) 

i left the CC on my tv it said 'Woman Screaming" at the end.  SO yeah it was obvi Lyanna.

You think Ned will bury them all like in the books? Why didnt they start with the tourney and Lyanna and Rhaegar running off? They just going to skip all that??  I was saying upthread I think they will do a bad job with the whole Targaryen thing.  They are just not making it clear how epic  the romance and abduction and everything was. ugh

[MtnLion]

33 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

i left the CC on my tv it said 'Woman Screaming" at the end.  SO yeah it was obvi Lyanna.

You think Ned will bury them all like in the books? Why didnt they start with the tourney and Lyanna and Rhaegar running off? They just going to skip all that??  I was saying upthread I think they will do a bad job with the whole Targaryen thing.  They are just not making it clear how epic  the romance and abduction and everything was. ugh

A woman could be a servant/wet-nurse, etc.  Lyanna died of fever, and was too weak to scream.  Of course that doesn't limit the screenplay from doing things completely wrong. 

In the screenplay, nothing can be frivolous filler, except maybe sexposition, but that is not really filler.  It would have been far to obvious to start with that flashback, and the tourney would definitely throw the whole thing into the audience's face.  We will get to the romance, but perhaps only through Lyanna's narrative.