[Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.3

[Wouter]

On 27-10-2016 at 2:01 AM, Lord Friendzone said:

Would prefer Aemon but Aegon well it's D&D.

 

Allthough the person who leaked this info seems to have been right about a lot of things (as per filming info slowly trickling out of Spain in recent days and weeks), he or she has also corrected some things* later and may be wrong still about a number of details. Aegon/Aemon is close enough that he or she could have misunderstood/misremembered.

In related news,

Spoiler

If this leaker is generally right about things and unless some important info is still hidden (this is always possible, depending on the source the leaker has; he seems to be right about most things that are filmed in Spain), it would seem that Tyrion may not ride a dragon this coming season - while Viserion supposedly bites it. To me, this would be surprising as I think books - and the show scene with Tyrion freeing Rhaegal and Viserion - indicate Tyrion as dragon rider. Potentially a blow against the Tyrion-is-a-Targaryen theory, along with Tyrion-will-be-a-dragonrider.

Of course, it remains to be seen if the leaker is correct, but quite a lot of the claimed developments seem to have been filmed recently so it's not just someone who makes stuff up from nothing.

*:the leaker originally claimed Dany would attack KL but fail to take it, later changed this to her attacking Lannister forces that were on their way back to KL, while not yet storming the city itself.

 

[Queen of Procrastination]

6 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Allthough the person who leaked this info seems to have been right about a lot of things (as per filming info slowly trickling out of Spain in recent days and weeks), he or she has also corrected some things* later and may be wrong still about a number of details. Aegon/Aemon is close enough that he or she could have misunderstood/misremembered.

In related news,

  Reveal hidden contents

If this leaker is generally right about things and unless some important info is still hidden (this is always possible, depending on the source the leaker has; he seems to be right about most things that are filmed in Spain), it would seem that Tyrion may not ride a dragon this coming season - while Viserion supposedly bites it. To me, this would be surprising as I think books - and the show scene with Tyrion freeing Rhaegal and Viserion - indicate Tyrion as dragon rider. Potentially a blow against the Tyrion-is-a-Targaryen theory, along with Tyrion-will-be-a-dragonrider.

Of course, it remains to be seen if the leaker is correct, but quite a lot of the claimed developments seem to have been filmed recently so it's not just someone who makes stuff up from nothing.

*:the leaker originally claimed Dany would attack KL but fail to take it, later changed this to her attacking Lannister forces that were on their way back to KL, while not yet storming the city itself.

 

Agreed.

Even if the leaker has been right, I don't expect things to be the same in the books . D&D have diverged so far from the books, I wouldn't be surprised  if they've changed Jon's birth name as well. 

[Lord Friendzone]

23 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Allthough the person who leaked this info seems to have been right about a lot of things (as per filming info slowly trickling out of Spain in recent days and weeks), he or she has also corrected some things* later and may be wrong still about a number of details. Aegon/Aemon is close enough that he or she could have misunderstood/misremembered.

In related news,

  Reveal hidden contents

If this leaker is generally right about things and unless some important info is still hidden (this is always possible, depending on the source the leaker has; he seems to be right about most things that are filmed in Spain), it would seem that Tyrion may not ride a dragon this coming season - while Viserion supposedly bites it. To me, this would be surprising as I think books - and the show scene with Tyrion freeing Rhaegal and Viserion - indicate Tyrion as dragon rider. Potentially a blow against the Tyrion-is-a-Targaryen theory, along with Tyrion-will-be-a-dragonrider.

Of course, it remains to be seen if the leaker is correct, but quite a lot of the claimed developments seem to have been filmed recently so it's not just someone who makes stuff up from nothing.

*:the leaker originally claimed Dany would attack KL but fail to take it, later changed this to her attacking Lannister forces that were on their way back to KL, while not yet storming the city itself.

 

Might be but we already had Aemon in the story and D&D might think it will confuse fans. Much like Asha and Osha. So they went to Aegon.

Other person on 4chan said same thing about Viserion. It kinda makes sense as it levels strength for them, because otherwise three dragons would demolish wights.

[Blueroses]

On 02/11/2016 at 8:02 PM, Lord Friendzone said:

 

  Hide contents

Might be but we already had Aemon in the story and D&D might think it will confuse fans. Much like Asha and Osha. So they went to Aegon.

Other person on 4chan said same thing about Viserion. It kinda makes sense as it levels strength for them, because otherwise three dragons would demolish wights.

 

the same time until last season with pretty similar names but not exactly the same ones, and specially there's no reason/meaning for this similarity.

For Jon, his real name being Aemon gives the story a lot of vibes. And, normally people know pretty much how is he and have been keeping track on his story.

I'm on the "Aemon team" for all the reasons that have been stated several times and the cluses based on the books. Why would Lyanna name her child after the Rheagar other son, even after his death ? It would even make more sense to me to name him Rhaegar in this case ! The only support for Aegon as Jon name is Dany vision and visions and prophecies are known to be tricky and more complex that it may seems.

[Lord Friendzone]

With leaks basically being proven right. There goes Tyrion riding a dragon, or all three of them Jon, Dany and Tyrion as three headed dragon. Also, Tyrion as Targ most likely. I mean, not a surprising since the omitted it from previous seasons and it looks we'll have different riders.

10 hours ago, Blueroses said:

For Jon, his real name being Aemon gives the story a lot of vibes. And, normally people know pretty much how is he and have been keeping track on his story.

 

I'm on the "Aemon team" for all the reasons that have been stated several times and the cluses based on the books. Why would Lyanna name her child after the Rheagar other son, even after his death ? It would even make more sense to me to name him Rhaegar in this case ! The only support for Aegon as Jon name is Dany vision and visions and prophecies are known to be tricky and more complex that it may seems.

 

I'm on Aemon team too and we got plenty or good amount of foreshadowing from the books and it's a nice nod to Aemon his mentor. But it might confuse fans. It might be that Dany hadn't saw Aegon, bt might've been more complex or just show doing things their way as they usually do..

[Blueroses]

I really don’t understand how it might confuse fans, really. We won’t have two living “Aemons” at the same time nor at the same age, plus Jon Snow will always be known as Jon Snow by the fans and I think everyone knows two or more people having the same names in real life without confusing them, so it’s not so difficult to process.

[Wouter]

On 6-11-2016 at 3:28 AM, Lord Friendzone said:

With leaks basically being proven right. There goes Tyrion riding a dragon, or all three of them Jon, Dany and Tyrion as three headed dragon. Also, Tyrion as Targ most likely. I mean, not a surprising since the omitted it from previous seasons and it looks we'll have different riders.

Tyrion as a Targ could still play a role in S8, even if the dragon riding thing is cut. There was that scene in S6 where Tyrion seemed to bond with Viserion and Rhaegal; that scene (not mere filler, unlike some other Dinklage scenes in S6) must have had a purpose.

If the three heads/dragonriding things does not feature in the show, then do we think it's not in the books either (in spite of all the hints) or could this be a change? Surely there would have to be consequences in the books, if Tyrion is the son of Aerys. If the ending of the show is still the same one for the major characters, as was promised, there should be something visible for Tyrion.

 

[DMC]

6 hours ago, Wouter said:

If the three heads/dragonriding things does not feature in the show, then do we think it's not in the books either (in spite of all the hints) or could this be a change? Surely there would have to be consequences in the books, if Tyrion is the son of Aerys. If the ending of the show is still the same one for the major characters, as was promised, there should be something visible for Tyrion.

If the leaks are true, and I still think that's a pretty big if, I think it's a pretty big blow to AJT.  The three-headed dragon aspect - based on the congruities between Jon, Dany, and Tyrion - to me was one of the key foundations of the theory, and obviously that appears off the table.  More importantly, seems to me the main point of the theory/reveal has always been to enable Tyrion to ride a dragon.  This also seems increasingly unlikely if Jon is bonding with Rhaegal, and I very much doubt they would change dragonriders - at least of one of the main characters (meaning, perhaps in the books Faegon ends up riding Rhaegal for a time then dying; this would obviously be omitted from the show).

However, as you say, it does not kill it - AJT could still be a big reveal in season 8.  Moreover, he could still ride a dragon in season 8.  But, of course, this would be contingent upon Dany and/or Jon's death beforehand.  Which is an interesting prospect - Tyrion as the unlikely hero after seemingly all hope was lost.

[Lord Friendzone]

7 hours ago, Wouter said:

Tyrion as a Targ could still play a role in S8, even if the dragon riding thing is cut. There was that scene in S6 where Tyrion seemed to bond with Viserion and Rhaegal; that scene (not mere filler, unlike some other Dinklage scenes in S6) must have had a purpose.

If the three heads/dragonriding things does not feature in the show, then do we think it's not in the books either (in spite of all the hints) or could this be a change? Surely there would have to be consequences in the books, if Tyrion is the son of Aerys. If the ending of the show is still the same one for the major characters, as was promised, there should be something visible for Tyrion.

 

They put a good deal of showing us Jon and Dany are last two Targaryens. One known, the other secret Tyrion being yet another would ruin it a bit. So possibly child will come out of this relationship between Jon and Dany. Also, R+L=J is not even fully confirmed for fans, some are confused by last seasons reveal. Likely we'll see Rhaegar and Lyanna in some scene.

That scene with dragon would be better to serve as dragon rider material but Jon pets dragon. There is a difference betwen petting a dragon or just releasing them from chains. As Missandei said they do know friend from foe. So even guy who has no Valyrian blood, with good intentions would do it. They could've easily went without this line from Missandei but yet they did.

NK is show character and they gave him dragon. It seems show is going differen route unless Aegon somehow rides a dragon is not on a show. So basically show by excluding Aegon would replace him with another antagonist NK or one of the dragon will die well before final fight. They decide to give dragon to Night King and not just kill dragon.

[Lord Friendzone]

52 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

If the leaks are true, and I still think that's a pretty big if, I think it's a pretty big blow to AJT.  The three-headed dragon aspect - based on the congruities between Jon, Dany, and Tyrion - to me was one of the key foundations of the theory, and obviously that appears off the table.  More importantly, seems to me the main point of the theory/reveal has always been to enable Tyrion to ride a dragon.  This also seems increasingly unlikely if Jon is bonding with Rhaegal, and I very much doubt they would change dragonriders - at least of one of the main characters (meaning, perhaps in the books Faegon ends up riding Rhaegal for a time then dying; this would obviously be omitted from the show).

However, as you say, it does not kill it - AJT could still be a big reveal in season 8.  Moreover, he could still ride a dragon in season 8.  But, of course, this would be contingent upon Dany and/or Jon's death beforehand.  Which is an interesting prospect - Tyrion as the unlikely hero after seemingly all hope was lost.

Bond with adragon is for life. Drogon choose Dany and no one else will ride him, if Rhaegal choose Jon he'll be his rider.

As leaks suggets Jon won't find out secret about his parentage until season 8. Which kills AJT as reveal for the same season. They won't reveal two of them and especially since one was foreshadowed and shown well half of it during TOJ sequaence. Next season we'll get Rhaegar and the fact he's legitimate.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Bond with adragon is for life. Drogon choose Dany and no one else will ride him, if Rhaegal choose Jon he'll be his rider.

 

  Hide contents

As leaks suggets Jon won't find out secret about his parentage until season 8. Which kills AJT as reveal for the same season. They won't reveal two of them and especially since one was foreshadowed and shown well half of it during TOJ sequaence. Next season we'll get Rhaegar and the fact he's legitimate.

 

The bond with a dragon is for the riders's life, but there have been many dragons that have had multiple riders due to the deaths of the latter - Balerion, Vhagar, Seasmoke, Dreamfyre...

Spoiler

While Jon won't find out about his parentage until S8, us viewers essentially already have.  AJT would be a far bigger reveal for viewers - and considering the leaks, as you say, also claim Jon's legitimacy will be confirmed in S7, they've effectively tapped out any major twist for viewers IRT Jon.

 

[Lord Friendzone]

1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

The bond with a dragon is for the riders's life, but there have been many dragons that have had multiple riders due to the deaths of the latter - Balerion, Vhagar, Seasmoke, Dreamfyre...

  Reveal hidden contents

While Jon won't find out about his parentage until S8, us viewers essentially already have.  AJT would be a far bigger reveal for viewers - and considering the leaks, as you say, also claim Jon's legitimacy will be confirmed in S7, they've effectively tapped out any major twist for viewers IRT Jon.

 

It would be cheap to give Drogon or Rhaegal who will newly bond with Jon. Besides Jon and Dany might die at the very end of final battle. Not before. Fighting NK at some battle.

To audience might be but still to expect that they'll do two reveals in very short pan of time and AJT was never strongly hinted at in the show to begin with. More so in the books but show is going different route and it would cheapen reveal of Jon. Audience would be confused. Tyrion is likely not gonna ride dragon and Jon or Dany will be rulling at the end. They're both legitimate, unlike what Tyrion would be. Literally no need for it. There is just too much time spent on them learning to rule. Tyrion can be Lord of Casterly Rock which is what he always wanted and Hand of te King or Queen but thats about it.

[Wouter]

15 hours ago, dmc515 said:

If the leaks are true, and I still think that's a pretty big if, I think it's a pretty big blow to AJT.  The three-headed dragon aspect - based on the congruities between Jon, Dany, and Tyrion - to me was one of the key foundations of the theory, and obviously that appears off the table.  More importantly, seems to me the main point of the theory/reveal has always been to enable Tyrion to ride a dragon. 

However, as you say, it does not kill it - AJT could still be a big reveal in season 8.  Moreover, he could still ride a dragon in season 8.  But, of course, this would be contingent upon Dany and/or Jon's death beforehand.  Which is an interesting prospect - Tyrion as the unlikely hero after seemingly all hope was lost.

I always thought the other way round - Tyrion, based on the books, seems or seemed destined to ride a dragon. Having Targaryen blood is the follow-up, due to the apparent requirement for Valyrian blood in order to control a dragon (Bran possibly excepted, and Nights King in the show).

Admittedly, hints for dragon riding are far stronger in the books. The show did have Tyrion's encounter with Drogon in Valyria though, and his amicable chit-chat with Viserion and Rhaegal later. Tywin's denial of Tyrion-as-his-son was also as strong in the show as it was in the books.

Dany and/or Jon dying is still a possibility. In the books, there has always been that air of melancholy and tragicness about Dany - "the last of the dragons". There are still question marks about her fertility.  And Jon was resurrected, in books and show. Will there be no price for that, in the end? What about the motive of all the magical creatures - with the direwolves going the last - disappearing from the world, a bit like the elves at the end of LOTR?

The default ending for books and show for me is queen Dany and king Jon, possibly living happily ever after and having children to continue their line . But depending on how sweet and how bitter GRRM's 'bittersweet' would turn out to be, it may also mean defeat of the Others and the messianic saviours paying a high price for it.

Still, if the leaks are true and complete as far as Tyrion and dragons go, it is a blow to the theory.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Wouter said:

I always thought the other way round - Tyrion, based on the books, seems or seemed destined to ride a dragon. Having Targaryen blood is the follow-up, due to the apparent requirement for Valyrian blood in order to control a dragon (Bran possibly excepted, and Nights King in the show).

Well, don't really think we're in disagreement here.  My point is the narrative rationale for AJT has always largely rested upon the requirement for Valyrian blood thing to justify Tyrion's dragonriding.  I agree that the latter (Tyrion riding a dragon) is more supported in the books, but that is still the main impetus for the theory.

1 hour ago, Wouter said:

Dany and/or Jon dying is still a possibility. In the books, there has always been that air of melancholy and tragicness about Dany - "the last of the dragons". There are still question marks about her fertility.  And Jon was resurrected, in books and show. Will there be no price for that, in the end? What about the motive of all the magical creatures - with the direwolves going the last - disappearing from the world, a bit like the elves at the end of LOTR?

Yeah, this is why I find one of them dying before the endgame is intriguing to me.  IMO, both Jon and Dany equally hold the potential for a tragic figure that's death may be the preamble to the final salvo.  Have no idea which one - and certainly can't fathom Martin killing them both off at that time - but I think it's much more plausible than many others do.  And, subsequently, the idea of Tyrion taking up the mantle for the fallen hero is something I can envision and get on board with.

[UnmaskedLurker]

I have been mulling the death of Viserion as it impacts AJT. Retracing my original thinking on the AJT theory, I recall that Tyrion as a dragon rider was never crucial to the theory.  While the idea became more and more enticing to me over time as a potential consequence to Tyrion having Targ blood, the main support for the theory never hinged on Tyrion as a dragon rider (and even if Viserion dies, Tyrion still could eventually be a dragon rider, for example if Dany dies in the big battle and Tyrion jumps on Drogon after Dany's death -- but I am not predicting such a thing -- just pointing out that Viserion's death does not preclude Tyrion riding a dragon).

So back to basics. The original reason that I thought that Tyrion was the son of Aerys -- before the additional clues came out in WOIAF, principally (but not solely) centered around the prophecy -- as referenced by Rhaegar in the HOTU vision. Most important, the HOTU visions includes the following:  "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." 

I believe that this statement from the vision means that there will be three characters who are the three heads of the dragon. I know some people disagree (for example, some believe Jon is the three-headed dragon himself), but I am convinced. The only realistic candidate for the third head (in addition to Jon and Dany) is Tyrion (fAegon -- even if real -- is not a worthy candidate (IMHO) given that YG has been a relatively minor character -- he seems designed solely to be an adversary to Dany whom she can vanquish).

Some (maybe even a majority) of people believe that even if Tyrion is the third head from the prophecy, he does not need to be a Targ at all (pointing to the SSM indicating that the third head is not "necessary a Targaryen"). I disagree. I don't see how Tyrion can be a head "of the dragon" if he is not "of the dragon" in any sense (I think Martin was playing a bit of a word game as Tyrion would not really be a Targaryen -- but rather a Targ bastard). Having a Targ father would make Tyrion "of the dragon" and I think eligible to be one of the dragon's three heads referenced by Rhaegar in the vision.

That analysis -- taken with all the other clues (ultimately including the clues from WOIAF) -- still has me leaning strongly in favor of AJT. I cannot indicate that I am at near 100% certainty (as I more or less have been for many years regarding RLJ), but I still think it makes more sense than not. So even if Viserion dies in the books (as the dragon apparently will this season on HBO) and Tyrion never rides a dragon, the clues still point in favor of AJT.

One last point -- some will argue that if Tyrion does not ride a dragon then what is the point of him being a Targ bastard. I believe it mainly centers around character development (yes, I know that is a big argument some make against -- primarily dealing with "destroying" the relationship between Tyrion and Tywin -- but I have never found that argument persuasive). Essentially, Tyrion will have chosen Jon and Dany to be his surrogate family and turn against the Lannisters. He then will learn that the Targs also happen to be his actual family. That revelation will affect Tyrion.

[Lord Friendzone]

 I think Tyrion as Targ might never be revealed because there is no evidence to prove it. Even Jon would have to prove it. That¨s one reveal and another? What's the point would Tyrion as a Targ serve? He ain't gonna ride a dragon and not gonna sit on the iron throne as people wouldn't choose him while Jon and Dany are alive and one of them will, maybe even their child. To choose Jon and Dany as his family do't think that's why we have this theory because it has to serve to story besides characters. Besides show didn't offered clues to this theory, only books some.

[Meera of Tarth]

7 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

 I think Tyrion as Targ might never be revealed because there is no evidence to prove it. Even Jon would have to prove it. That¨s one reveal and another? What's the point would Tyrion as a Targ serve? He ain't gonna ride a dragon and not gonna sit on the iron throne as people wouldn't choose him while Jon and Dany are alive and one of them will, maybe even their child. To choose Jon and Dany as his family do't think that's why we have this theory because it has to serve to story besides characters. Besides show didn't offered clues to this theory, only books some.

Yes, that sounds weird, especially considering he is, by far,  the character with more screentime in GOT from all the 191.

I don't subscribe the idea of him being a Targaryen, but I think they are saving his determining role for Season 8.

[Consigliere]

If the show never reveals AJT then I will consider the theory to be debunked. I do not believe that the show would simply cut out this reveal if the theory were actually true. Like RLJ, AJT if true, should be having an important impact on both character and plot so a lack of reveal would, to me, confirm that the theory was never true in the first place.

Concerning leaks regarding RLJ:

Okay, so one leak says that Jon was "legitimized at birth" and another says that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was annulled. What plot relevance would annulling his marriage serve if he never married Lyanna anyway? I think it makes much more sense that if Rhaegar had his marriage annulled, he went on to marry Lyanna and the leak should actually read "legitimate" rather than "legitimized" at birth.

I doubt that this is how it plays out in the books as an annulment of a royal marriage would realistically be a matter of public record. The show, however, has a history of playing fast and loose with details and logic. They should have just gone the polygamy route. Afterall, Sansa's existing marriage to Tyrion did not present any stumbling block to her marrying Ramsay.

[UnmaskedLurker]

I tend to agree that if AJT is correct in the books, it is likely to be central enough to the endgame that the show would reveal it as well (although unclear what parts of the "endgame" D&D consider pivotal and which they do not so not quite as certain as my friend and collaborator, Consigliere). I also agree that such a reveal should never have been expected prior to season 8. Given the build up surrounding the RLJ reveal that has been going on a relative slow burn since season 6 through season 7 and I think the final reveal to Jon early in season 8, any AJT reveal would be saved for after the RLJ reveal is firmly in the rear view mirror as the last "big twist" of the series.

But I simply was arguing that Tyrion does not have to ride a dragon for Tyrion as Targ bastard to matter. LF raises the classic question of how it would then be revealed or how it would be critical to the plot. I really don't know the answer. Of course, maybe Tyrion does ride Drogon after Dany's death or maybe rides Rhaegal. I really don't know. And if AJT is accurate but if Tyrion does not ride a dragon, then I suspect it will become significant in a way that could not have been predicted (as an analogy for anyone who read the Harry Potter books -- I doubt anyone predicted that the books were really about Harry's journey to destroy all the horcruxes prior to reading book 6).

Bottom line, Tyrion is one of the main characters and seems likely to have some important role in the endgame -- whether Targ or 100% Lannister. So Tyrion has to do something that we cannot necessary think of now. But if GRRM wants Tyrion as Targ to matter to the plot, he probably decided the basic terms of that contribution over 20 years ago and should make sense once revealed. Ultimately, the prophecy that the dragon has three heads has to mean something -- so three characters must do something "special" for the prophecy to be accurate.

As to the R&L marriage issue:

Spoiler

I think that the leaks makes it fairly certain that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. I consider this leak, once confirmed by seeing it on the show, to be confirmation that they will turn out to have been married in the books. But I agree with the suggestion that in the books the marriage will be a bigamist marriage for Rhaegar, while in the show they have his first marriage annulled. I understand why the producers made this choice. With respect to Sansa, the marriage to Tyrion can be ignored for a few possible reasons (it was never consummated, Tyrion might be presumed dead and is under a death sentence, Ramsay has his power in the North, the furthest territory from the capital and thus most able to ignore any impact from KL, Ramsay is evil and does not care about rules, etc.). Rhaegar's marriage to Elia could not be as easily overlooked or ignored on the show. He is the crown prince and had two children with Elia. He also is supposed to end up being a good guy in the eyes of the viewers (unlike Ramsay). The show did not prepare the viewers for Targ bigamy in the way that the books have. So I think the choice for the show makes sense for the show but could not work for the books. So the position I have always taken remains my position, I believe that most likely R&L were married even though Rhaegar remained married to Elia at that time.

 

[Consigliere]

4 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

<snip>

Yeah, I don't think that the death of a dragon kills AJT. I never believed that it would be three dragons and their riders facing down the The Others and their horde in a final battle. I've always suspected that one of the dragons would die before that. Tyrion could still potentially ride a dragon and DMC lays out a plausible scenario - one that I could see Martin actually doing - with either Jon or Dany as the fallen hero and Tyrion as the unlikely hero. I suspect that Martin, like Tyrion, has a soft spot for "Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things" - AJT would make Tyrion all of those.

 

4 hours ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

As to the R&L marriage issue:

  Reveal hidden contents

I think that the leaks makes it fairly certain that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married. I consider this leak, once confirmed by seeing it on the show, to be confirmation that they will turn out to have been married in the books. But I agree with the suggestion that in the books the marriage will be a bigamist marriage for Rhaegar, while in the show they have his first marriage annulled. I understand why the producers made this choice. With respect to Sansa, the marriage to Tyrion can be ignored for a few possible reasons (it was never consummated, Tyrion might be presumed dead and is under a death sentence, Ramsay has his power in the North, the furthest territory from the capital and thus most able to ignore any impact from KL, Ramsay is evil and does not care about rules, etc.). Rhaegar's marriage to Elia could not be as easily overlooked or ignored on the show. He is the crown prince and had two children with Elia. He also is supposed to end up being a good guy in the eyes of the viewers (unlike Ramsay). The show did not prepare the viewers for Targ bigamy in the way that the books have. So I think the choice for the show makes sense for the show but could not work for the books. So the position I have always taken remains my position, I believe that most likely R&L were married even though Rhaegar remained married to Elia at that time.

 

I guess I will wait and see how this plays out first. My skepticism comes from the show runners track record when it comes to logic. Realistically, the annulment of a royal marriage should be a matter of public record and widely known, not something Sam "discovers". I think that the bigamy route would have been better since we already have the Sansa example and some exposition on Targ history/Aegon the Conqueror could have been given when Dany lands on Dragonstone.