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Suzanna Stormborn

[Book Spoilers] R+L=J, A+J=T and other theories on HBO V.3

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Did anyone watched Robbie McD's videos? I find that out of all the videos out there regarding R+L=J, his'/hers are the ones that are the most informative and well edited, and mostly cause the topic was back up by hints and evidences with glorious music to enhance the theme. 

 

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On 4/23/2016 at 8:11 PM, Suzanna Stormborn said:

:( We must disagree on this.  I think the horn is going to throw a big wrench in Dany's plans.  in the book I think Vic will take a dragon with it for a short time, who knows if there will even be one on the show (that was just my guess). 

 

But I think the whole point of the horn is "you can get a dragon without bloodmagic or bonding due to Dragonlord blood"......PLUS and this is a big one for me, the horn is on the cover of Winds of Winter, meaning (IMO) it is there to do some damage, especially since it accompanies the book with the most ominous title so far.

Why do you think that the horn will be able to bind a dragon to anyone? We have no reports of this sort of thing ever happening -- and if it were possible, wouldn't there be reports of non-dragonlords at some point in the past bonding with a dragon using such a horn?

Here is the only relevant quote I could find discussing such horns (from DwD, Dany X):

"The dragonlords of old Valyria had controlled their mounts with binding spells and sorcerous horns."

Based on this quote, clearly Dany knows such horns exist -- so the existence of horns used by the dragonlords seems to be fairly common knowledge (if even Dany knows it). But no one (other than Euron) seem to have ever suggested that a non-dragonlord can use such a horn to bond with a dragon. Wouldn't such a horn have been searched for during DoD 1.0 when they needed additional dragonriders? But no one in those side books ever even mentioned such a horn.

Based on Dany's description of the use of the horns, it seems that the horns were used for better control -- but not to form the actual bond. We have seen in the side books how the bonding happens. But no mention that horns can be an alternative method. And given that we know how dragonlords form the bond, why would Dany's quote mention them using the horn -- dragonlords don't need a horn to bond.

And Dragonbinder is NOT on the cover of WoW. Virtually everyone (myself included) seems to be convinced that the horn is the Horn of Winter (otherwise known as the Horn of Joramun) and NOT Dragonbinder. Why do you think it is Dragonbinder?

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23 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Why do you think that the horn will be able to bind a dragon to anyone? We have no reports of this sort of thing ever happening -- and if it were possible, wouldn't there be reports of non-dragonlords at some point in the past bonding with a dragon using such a horn?

It's not really a leap to imagine that a fancy dragon horn called Dragonbinder might be used to bind dragons. Just because we don't have reports of the horn being used doesn't mean it doesn't work in some fashion. We don't know how the Dragonlord families originally established their blood based bonds with their dragons. The horn seems like as good a bet as any. The "blood for fire, fire for blood" inscription seems like a major hint that this was the original source of Valyrian power.

25 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

And Dragonbinder is NOT on the cover of WoW. Virtually everyone (myself included) seems to be convinced that the horn is the Horn of Winter (otherwise known as the Horn of Joramun) and NOT Dragonbinder. Why do you think it is Dragonbinder?

It actually matches the description of Dragonbinder pretty well, assuming those engravings pass for Valyrian glyphs. It's glossy black and has those gold bands.

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19 hours ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

So Mel probably is the daughter of Bloodraven and Shiera.....really really old

i think she is MUCH older than either of them by what we can piece together about them saying she s 400 years old and a slave. She was probably there are the fall of valyria.  

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3 hours ago, RumHam said:

It's not really a leap to imagine that a fancy dragon horn called Dragonbinder might be used to bind dragons. Just because we don't have reports of the horn being used doesn't mean it doesn't work in some fashion. We don't know how the Dragonlord families originally established their blood based bonds with their dragons. The horn seems like as good a bet as any. The "blood for fire, fire for blood" inscription seems like a major hint that this was the original source of Valyrian power.

It actually matches the description of Dragonbinder pretty well, assuming those engravings pass for Valyrian glyphs. It's glossy black and has those gold bands.

we were talking about this on an AJT thread, I think someone posted a link where GRRM confirmed it was the official cover and it was a dragonbinder horn, not the horn of winter.  IIRC

 

Can you guys believe they killed Doran like that?

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2 hours ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

i think she is MUCH older than either of them by what we can piece together about them saying she s 400 years old and a slave. She was probably there are the fall of valyria.  

oh shit! I didnt see that she is 400!!

 

So if that is the case, then do you guys think the same as me that they showed her true (ancient) age because she is going to sacrifice herself to save Jon?  Like she has lived long enough and that's why they made the point of it and named the episode 'The Red Woman'?

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11 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

oh shit! I didnt see that she is 400!!

 

So if that is the case, then do you guys think the same as me that they showed her true (ancient) age because she is going to sacrifice herself to save Jon?  Like she has lived long enough and that's why they made the point of it and named the episode 'The Red Woman'?

I think she is going to die. I don't know if she dies to bring back jon, dies for lightbringer ( they brought it up in some promotional stuff totally trolling when they have never brought up the stuff before in the show), or etc...I do think that she and bloodraven tell us the prophecy of the prince who was promised that we never have heard  completely in the books. 

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13 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

oh shit! I didnt see that she is 400!!

 

So if that is the case, then do you guys think the same as me that they showed her true (ancient) age because she is going to sacrifice herself to save Jon?  Like she has lived long enough and that's why they made the point of it and named the episode 'The Red Woman'?

A poster who made an interesting comment in the episode thread mentioned that Mel will give her life to Jon the same way Beric gave his to Cat.

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44 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Can you guys believe they killed Doran like that?

I can, but only because the show has mishandled the Dorne end of things so badly. That whole "it is the grass that hides the snake until it's time to strike" speech could have been great. Oh well.

26 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

A poster who made an interesting comment in the episode thread mentioned that Mel will give her life to Jon the same way Beric gave his to Cat.

That doesn't really track though. Mel should be able to just revive him as Thoros did to Beric many times. Beric only gave his life because Thoros wouldn't do the ritual. 

I guess it could make sense if we accept that Melisandre once died and was brought back. But would she continue to age? Would she have expressed such shock at Thoros's revival of Beric? It seems unlikely. 

I think probably maintaining the illusion takes a lot out of her, and she's truly resting for the first time in years in preparation for what she's going to do with Jon.

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33 minutes ago, RumHam said:

That doesn't really track though. Mel should be able to just revive him as Thoros did to Beric many times. Beric only gave his life because Thoros wouldn't do the ritual. 

I guess it could make sense if we accept that Melisandre once died and was brought back. But would she continue to age? Would she have expressed such shock at Thoros's revival of Beric? It seems unlikely. 

I think probably maintaining the illusion takes a lot out of her, and she's truly resting for the first time in years in preparation for what she's going to do with Jon.

Well. Mel may die in this season and chances are that she will sacrifice herself to revive Jon. And i don't think there will be anyone to back Mel up. 

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50 minutes ago, RumHam said:

That doesn't really track though. Mel should be able to just revive him as Thoros did to Beric many times. Beric only gave his life because Thoros wouldn't do the ritual. 

I guess it could make sense if we accept that Melisandre once died and was brought back. But would she continue to age? Would she have expressed such shock at Thoros's revival of Beric? It seems unlikely. 

I think probably maintaining the illusion takes a lot out of her, and she's truly resting for the first time in years in preparation for what she's going to do with Jon.

Why should she be able to bring him back like nothing? she is a shadow binder and thoros is not. So maybe she never done it before and has no idea she could? 

I thought she was taking a bit of the power she got when people were sacrificed to stay alive. 

I think that she is just lost faith in her god and her powers. I don't think she thinking about bringing back jon at all. She knows better than anyone how much of a fake and a failure she is in the end. 

23 minutes ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Well. Mel may die in this season and chances are that she will sacrifice herself to revive Jon. And i don't think there will be anyone to back Mel up. 

they have done a little fan trolling about lightbringer...

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1 hour ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Well. Mel may die in this season and chances are that she will sacrifice herself to revive Jon. And i don't think there will be anyone to back Mel up. 

She may well. Though it doesn't have to be the act of revival that kills her. There are still the forty hostile men to deal with after all. Either way after six seasons we should realize that just because something doesn't make sense doesn't mean the show won't do it anyway. 

1 hour ago, 239JMFL34109 said:

Why should she be able to bring him back like nothing? she is a shadow binder and thoros is not. So maybe she never done it before and has no idea she could? 

That's exactly how Thoros brought Beric back. He'd never done it before and had no idea that he could. He was just preforming their funeral rights. The fact that she's a shadow binder and Thoros is not could be used as an explanation. They'd have to explain that she gave up her "soul" or whatever and thus couldn't do it. Still I see no reason to assume this at the moment. If anything I think her being a shadow binder suggests she is more powerful than Thoros. 

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3 hours ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

we were talking about this on an AJT thread, I think someone posted a link where GRRM confirmed it was the official cover and it was a dragonbinder horn, not the horn of winter.  IIRC

 

Can you guys believe they killed Doran like that?

Ok, maybe I am wrong and it is Dragonbinder. Sorry for my incredulity. 

I still think nothing ever is as simple or straight forward in ASOIAF. The readers have been told that Dragonbinder allows its owner to control a dragon if it is blown. I just see no way that it actually operates as advertised. It may do something -- and that something may be important -- but it cannot be a simple as just doing what Vic thinks it will do. That would just be very un-GRRM to unravel that consistently with expectations.

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15 minutes ago, RumHam said:

She may well. Though it doesn't have to be the act of revival that kills her. There are still the forty hostile men to deal with after all. Either way after six seasons we should realize that just because something doesn't make sense doesn't mean the show won't do it anyway. 

That's exactly how Thoros brought Beric back. He'd never done it before and had no idea that he could. He was just preforming their funeral rights. The fact that she's a shadow binder and Thoros is not could be used as an explanation. They'd have to explain that she gave up her "soul" or whatever and thus couldn't do it. Still I see no reason to assume this at the moment. If anything I think her being a shadow binder suggests she is more powerful than Thoros. 

there is no reason to believe bringing jon back requires a soul. 

I too think she is more powerful but there are other shadow binders in the books (quainte) and i don't think we have seen anything to say that she is part of the  same religion. so there is no reason to assume her magic shadow powers really have anything to do with her faith. she is just one who is a part of the red gods religion. 

I think she doesn't bring jon back because she's having a crisis of faith. She doesn't think she can bring jon bank because she doesn't believe. 

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Bloodraven and Bran may have a hand in this. Somebody here proposed this as an alternative solution. Like combination or even the doing it, but then we have so far no reason to believe that they could do something like that.

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6 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Ok, maybe I am wrong and it is Dragonbinder. Sorry for my incredulity. 

I still think nothing ever is as simple or straight forward in ASOIAF. The readers have been told that Dragonbinder allows its owner to control a dragon if it is blown. I just see no way that it actually operates as advertised. It may do something -- and that something may be important -- but it cannot be a simple as just doing what Vic thinks it will do. That would just be very un-GRRM to unravel that consistently with expectations.

i think it does bind a dragon to the owner of the horn but who is the owner? the person who is in possession of it? the person who blow it?and etc... 

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