Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 well i understand what you are saying but based on the dragon info in the wiki some are clearly male while others are female, though it is difficult to tell...and the wiki also identifies all three of dany's as male using masculine pronouns as well as the word brothers. At that link, it says that dragons were thought by some maesters to be able to change sex, and mentions historical dragons that were "believed" male or female, never clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 At that link, it says that dragons were thought by some maesters to be able to change sex, and mentions historical dragons that were "believed" male or female, never clearly. i agree that there is dispute, but my point was that generally many of the historical dragons were labeled male or female/she-dragons and were egg layers. my point was that i believe there are other live dragons in the far east and that short of switching sexes right now all of danys are thought to be male Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 i agree that there is dispute, but my point was that generally many of the historical dragons were labeled male or female/she-dragons and were egg layers. my point was that i believe there are other live dragons in the far east and that short of switching sexes right now all of danys are thought to be male Do we even know there are any dragons far east that felt like just xenophobic rumours? And it might be that Dany's dragon that has always been larger is female!! that kind of sexual dimorphism is often seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Do we even know there are any dragons far east that felt like just xenophobic rumours? And it might be that Dany's dragon that has always been larger is female!! that kind of sexual dimorphism is often seen Bran saw them in his vision during season one, and in first book and according to the wiki there is no sexual dimorphism in dragons and i don't get your use of "xenophobic"...i know my comments weren't xenophobic and i don't see what that has to do the facts that the dragons are believed to come from the far east Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 i agree that there is dispute, but my point was that generally many of the historical dragons were labeled male or female/she-dragons and were egg layers. my point was that i believe there are other live dragons in the far east and that short of switching sexes right now all of danys are thought to be male It's true that they're always referred to by the characters as "he/him" and "brothers", but that's just ease of reference, not based on any external signs or strong belief in their maleness. They've only recently become mature and wouldn't have had the opportunity to produce eggs yet anyway. Bran saw them in his vision during season one, and in first book and according to the wiki there is no sexual dimorphism in dragons and i don't get your use of "xenophobic"...i know my comments weren't xenophobic and i don't see what that has to do the facts that the dragons are believed to come from the far east I think 239JMFL34109 meant that the rumors are xenophobic because they assert the existence of strange creatures in foreign countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's true that they're always referred to by the characters as "he/him" and "brothers", but that's just ease of reference, not based on any external signs or strong belief in their maleness. They've only recently become mature and wouldn't have had the opportunity to produce eggs yet anyway... i can accept this. I think 239JMFL34109 meant that the rumors are xenophobic because they assert the existence of strange creatures in foreign countries. ok, if you say so...however since dragons are an accepted part of history, they are not at all strange compared to the other creatures discussed...manticores and the like...they are feared but not strange nevertheless, let it never be said that i, of all people, am a member of the grammar gestapo :smoking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 yes i know who they are named after...Rhaegal for Rhaegar...Viserion for Viserys...and Drogon for Drogo her still born son was rhaego for rhaegar and drogo as for the bolded portion, i haven't seen this explanation for drogons name, that i can recall. daughter of death was something quaithe says to her, iirc my comment was to the poster that said jon would ride viserion because he is white like ghost and i said no, he would ride rhaegal because it is named for his (jon's) daddy...which was a nod to the r+l=j folks... Drogon, references Khal Drogo.... will be Daenary's mount in combat Rhaegal referencing Rhaegar Targaryan will be Jon Snow's Viserion referencing Visenya Targaryan, wielder of the blade "Dark Sister" will be Arya Stark's...... (There's a whole thing about how Visenya was Arya's hero growing up, and Dark Sister is a Valaryian Steel sword roughly described as being similiar to Arya's current sword, Needle..... Also the actual name of the blade "DARK SISTER" would kinda hint towards Arya too) Gives some interesting patterns and parallels too: -Aegon the conqueror had 2 female relatives with him when he conquered Westeros... Jon would have Dany (his aunt), and Arya (his cousin) -Rider wise, if you consider that Starks represent "ice" and Targs represent "fire"..... You get one ice Rider (Arya), one fire rider (Dany), and one one who's "both" in Jon - Both of the two women with Aegon, ended up being his wives....Dany and Arya are the two women are also roughly considered to be the two most plausible matches for John.... Arya and Jon where romantically involved in that original outline, and there's very well done threads that can make a case for that relationship possibly even being set up in the actual books. Meanwhile Dany/John ending up as King/Queen is pretty largely assumed to be the "Disney" version of the ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwesteros Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I should mention that I asked George R. R. Martin on his livejournal if The Ice Dragon was set in the same world as A Song of Ice and Fire because of all the publicity saying it was, and he told me it wasn't: http://grrm.livejournal.com/406858.html?thread=20265802 Good link - thanks. I've also looked up The Ice Dragon on the Wiki - it's been a while but I don't think there was much there other than legends, and not a lot of detail with them, either. I can't buy that Drogon has zeroed in on Jon and on his way there, but I am looking forward to seeing more of Drogon - and, hopefully, the other two - before Season 5 ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Drogon, references Khal Drogo.... will be Daenary's mount in combat Rhaegal referencing Rhaegar Targaryan will be Jon Snow's Viserion referencing Visenya Targaryan, wielder of the blade "Dark Sister" will be Arya Stark's...... (There's a whole thing about how Visenya was Arya's hero growing up, and Dark Sister is a Valaryian Steel sword roughly described as being similiar to Arya's current sword, Needle..... Also the actual name of the blade "DARK SISTER" would kinda hint towards Arya too) Gives some interesting patterns and parallels too: -Aegon the conqueror had 2 female relatives with him when he conquered Westeros... Jon would have Dany (his aunt), and Arya (his cousin) -Rider wise, if you consider that Starks represent "ice" and Targs represent "fire"..... You get one ice Rider (Arya), one fire rider (Dany), and one one who's "both" in Jon - Both of the two women with Aegon, ended up being his wives....Dany and Arya are the two women are also roughly considered to be the two most plausible matches for John.... Arya and Jon where romantically involved in that original outline, and there's very well done threads that can make a case for that relationship possibly even being set up in the actual books. Meanwhile Dany/John ending up as King/Queen is pretty largely assumed to be the "Disney" version of the ending. sorry to poke holes in what i am sure was a time consuming effort on your part to research this comment, but Viserion is named for Viserys, not Viseyna as quoted from ACoK - daenerys POV1... The cream and gold I call Viserion. Viserys was cruel and weak and frightened, yet he was my brother still. His dragon will do what he could not. as for arya and jon marrying...bullocks. there are many well thoughtout threads with hundreds and hundreds of comments about such a scenario as you describe but i believe that most are fraught with over-reaching interpretations and over-thinking of throw away comments. i do not believe she will marry jon or anyone else...though i would love to see her on a dragon :smoking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Double post, because the button seemed not to have done anything until I refreshed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noneofyourbusiness Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 ok, if you say so...however since dragons are an accepted part of history, they are not at all strange compared to the other creatures discussed...manticores and the like...they are feared but not strange nevertheless, let it never be said that i, of all people, am a member of the grammar gestapo :smoking: It's been so many generations since they "died out" though, that they're almost mythical. Even though people know they historically existed, they don't expect to ever see a living one face to face any more than they do an Other (until they are exposed to Dany). So "Here Be Dragons" is attributed to the far, far east and may just be the kind of rumor one hears about such places. Or at least that's what the other user was suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stofhisname Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Daenarys rides DrogonJon Snow rides Rhaegal Jon Snow secret sister Meera "Reed" rides Viserion. "Dark Sister" as in a sister that's been in the dark? If anyone other than Dany is riding dragons that's my lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocksniffer Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's been so many generations since they "died out" though, that they're almost mythical. Even though people know they historically existed, they don't expect to ever see a living one face to face any more than they do an Other (until they are exposed to Dany). So "Here Be Dragons" is attributed to the far, far east and may just be the kind of rumor one hears about such places. Or at least that's what the other user was suggesting. i agree that this is somewhat the case for commoners perhaps in westeros...i base my idea that dragons still exist in the east due to brans vision which was of actual people exactly where they were and this same vision included dragons under the sunrise in asshai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intheswamp Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The talk of Arya getting Dark Sister reminds me of a crackpot theory I had. After the Others are defeated, Arya decides to leave the courts of the Seven Kingdoms and continue her travels—can anyone actually see Arya settling down as a lady? Jon, who will find Dark Sister at the Wall, will gift her the sword in a scene that is a near copy of the scene where he gave her Needle. :wideeyed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 sorry to poke holes in what i am sure was a time consuming effort on your part to research this comment, but Viserion is named for Viserys, not Viseyna as quoted from ACoK - daenerys POV1... as for arya and jon marrying...bullocks. there are many well thoughtout threads with hundreds and hundreds of comments about such a scenario as you describe but i believe that most are fraught with over-reaching interpretations and over-thinking of throw away comments. i do not believe she will marry jon or anyone else...though i would love to see her on a dragon :smoking: I know Viserion was named for Viserys, not Visenya.... However, I was also under the impression that Viserys and Visenya are roughly intended to be the same name, just with a gender identifier for a male child (Viserys) or a female child (Visenya), with Viserion being relatively gender neutral, as dragons don't really have genders per se...... an assumption I could well be wrong about, but one that would explain why on the show, Arya makes it a point to tell Tywin all about Visenya Targaryan the dragonrider, and how she admired her. In a worst case scenario where that naming assumption is wrong, and Viserys/Visenya are not intended to be direct naming equivalents, the two names are still close enough in sound and spelling that it could very well have been an intentional form of subtle forshadowing by GRRM (though I can't say whether Arya has any talks about Visenya in the books, like she did on the show) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharvot Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I hope Jon gets to ride Drogon. If Jon is Targaryen then i want him to ride badass dragon like Balerion the Black Dread(Drogon) not Rhaegal or Viserion. Dany can have Rhaegal or Viserion. Nope, only 1 rider per dragon and Drogon is quite clearly Dany's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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