How much of an Internet firestorm will Cersei's scene cause? (Book Spoilers)

[dsug]

Never underestimate the stupidity of tumblr girls

[sj4iy]

Um. Close to none?

The outrage over episode 6 was the boiling point of the entire adaptation choice of having Sansa in Winterfell, not just because she was raped. But because it didn't happen in the books..

Because it's perfectly fine if it was in the books...that makes everything better.

Of course, most people who watch the show haven't actually read the books.

I'm sure this will be controversial and seen as degrading to women...because I'm sure that most people will have forgotten that the same exact thing was done to the High Septon a few weeks ago- but that won't count, because he was a guy that no one cares about.

[The Ghost of Rhaegar]

Because it's perfectly fine if it was in the books...that makes everything better.

Of course, most people who watch the show haven't actually read the books.

I'm sure this will be controversial and seen as degrading to women...because I'm sure that most people will have forgotten that the same exact thing was done to the High Septon a few weeks ago- but that won't count, because he was a guy that no one cares about.

LOL. I already had forgotten about it until you brought it up.

It was shot from the rear entirely wasn't it? That was a good thing. :) Maybe Cersi's will be shot the same way...

[dsug]

LOL. I already had forgotten about it until you brought it up.

It was shot from the rear entirely wasn't it? That was a good thing. :) Maybe Cersi's will be shot the same way...

Since they used a body double I expect some funky camera angles

[aliasocfan]

I except pretty close to none.

Cersei's not a liked characters. People will probably say that she completely deserves it.

[Magnar of Skagos]

Never underestimate the stupidity of tumblr girls

Wiser words have never been spoken.

Because it's perfectly fine if it was in the books...that makes everything better.

Of course, most people who watch the show haven't actually read the books.

I'm sure this will be controversial and seen as degrading to women...because I'm sure that most people will have forgotten that the same exact thing was done to the High Septon a few weeks ago- but that won't count, because he was a guy that no one cares about.

You nailed that nail right on the nail.

[Dolorous Gabe]

Everything depends on how it's handled.

Will she be forced into it or will she accept it as an option to get out from her cell sooner?

What emotions will it capture in Cersei?

Will the blocking and editing of the sequence be handled with artistic integrity?

Will it convey any kind of meaning or point for the viewer to derive?

Similarly, will it elicit any kind of complexity of emotional reaction in the viewer?

[Zombies That Were Promised]

I except pretty close to none.

Cersei's not a liked characters. People will probably say that she completely deserves it.

I don't know. I've read Unsullied posts that are conflicted with their dislike for her, i.e. talking to Tommen and slurping the water off the floor.

So I'd say the show is doing a good job of toeing the line between villain and sympathetic character.

[larastone]

Most people will probably be delighted by it. A very small percent will be disgusted by the High Sparrow and his misogynistic words (because I do think they'll keep in his misogynistic lines even if the punishment isn't only exclusively for women on the show) and want the Faith Militant to be destroyed more than ever

That's pretty much it.

I just hope Lena does a good job.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

Because it's perfectly fine if it was in the books...that makes everything better.

Of course, most people who watch the show haven't actually read the books.

I'm sure this will be controversial and seen as degrading to women...because I'm sure that most people will have forgotten that the same exact thing was done to the High Septon a few weeks ago- but that won't count, because he was a guy that no one cares about.

To conclude that the outrage over Sansa's rape was in regards to "tumblr girls", or "It wasn't in the books" is entirely stupid, considering most of the reviews from critics for said episode were negative as well. I felt outraged by it because the entire storyline was designed to rape a main character for shock factor. That's it. Not to mention that two episodes in, I still haven't seen any creativity that justifies the event, or how this storyline was badly put in the first place, denying all logic (LF, master manipulator, has no idea of who Ramsay is/Sansa's marriage doesn't count) to make it happen.

Nobody will complain about Cersei because it was in the books and it made sense. It's not a leap of logic to humiliate her character in order to keep a status of "EDGY!!" "SHOCKING!!"

[larastone]

To conclude that the outrage over Sansa's rape was in regards to "tumblr girls", or "It wasn't in the books" is entirely stupid, considering most of the reviews for said episode were negative as well. I felt outraged by it because the entire storyline was designed to rape a main character for shock factor. That's it. Not to mention that two episodes in, I still haven't seen any creativity that justifies the event, or how this storyline was badly put in the first place, denying all logic (LF, master manipulator, has no idea of who Ramsay is/Sansa's marriage doesn't count) to make it happen.

Nobody will complain about Cersei because it was in the books and it made sense. It's not a leap of logic to humiliate her character.

seriously there was outrage over the sansa rape because it was fucking gratuitous and was inconsistent in the storyline. and now it has become increasingly clear that the scene was just added in for shock factor and to make ramsay even more of a villain. it wasn't even there for further character development of sansa. D&D prioritized a 1D cartoon villain who in the broad spectrum is also a minor character over a main character. That's not good writing.

On the other hand, Cersei's Walk of Shame makes sense for the storyline and the direction of her character and will be important for her character development. So there won't be any outrage in that regard. At most the scene will generate some thinkpieces of how it humanizes a villain. that's it.

[dsug]

I wouldn't say it "makes sense." I suppose it is in line with the High Sparrow's MO, but no rational personal would logically expect that. It's too bizarre. No one could say "oh it's pretty logical that he would shave her head and parade her naked through the streets. Obviously"

[larastone]

I wouldn't say it "makes sense." I suppose it is in line with the High Sparrow's MO, but no rational personal would logically expect that. It's too bizarre. No one could say "oh it's pretty logical that he would shave her head and parade her naked through the streets. Obviously"

well yes its definitely a grossly uncomfortable scene and shows just how much of a nutjob and sadist the high sparrow is. when i say "makes sense", i mean that it makes sense in the regard that this season has focused on cersei's downfall and breaking down her character, so it makes sense that she would be further humiliated and degraded. while with sansa, she was starting to gain agency and power by the end of season 4. so the rape scene made no sense

[Wall Flower]

I always thought that the WOS was intended to be uncomfortably sexist - that was the whole point of it. Instead of Cersei being punished as the villain she is, she was punished for sexual misdemeanors as a widow in order to put her in her place. Kevin was involved in crafting the punishment, which is very similar to the WOS Tywin inflicted on his father's mistress for her uppityness. Although, I think Tywin would never have countenanced such humiliation for a member of House Lannister (except Tyrion).

I felt very conflicted during the Walk but a lot of people just hate Cersei and cheer along with the populace of KL.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

well yes its definitely a grossly uncomfortable scene and shows just how much of a nutjob and sadist the high sparrow is. when i say "makes sense", i mean that it makes sense in the regard that this season has focused on cersei's downfall and breaking down her character, so it makes sense that she would be further humiliated and degraded. while with sansa, she was starting to gain agency and power by the end of season 4. so the rape scene made no sense

Exactly. It made little sense to the direction Sansa's storyline seemed to be going, which is just bad writing. You can't pull a 180 on a character's personality and thematic storyline for a shocking scene.

I wouldn't say it "makes sense." I suppose it is in line with the High Sparrow's MO, but no rational personal would logically expect that. It's too bizarre. No one could say "oh it's pretty logical that he would shave her head and parade her naked through the streets. Obviously"

They even made it clear on the show about WOS with the High Septon. Even more, impressing as it is, WOS do happen in our world. I've read a bit of news that three women were stripped of their clothes and paraded naked on the streets of their hometown. And it adds to the High Sparrow and to Cersei herself, whilst the rape did little to the characters of Theon, Sansa or Ramsay. Sansa already was a survivor of abuse, Theon was already broken and Ramsay was already a sadist.

[lojzelote]

To be honest, I've always thought that what had happened in the books had been a tad too unrealistic. I mean, Cersei is is the mother to the king and the head of House Lannister, whatever the Faith may do common women, I doubt they would choose this punishment for a queen and and the wealthiest person in the Seven Kingdoms. They might have made her do a walk of penance in a simple shift or a nightgown and maybe even cut her hair, but they should have never throw her naked into street. GRRM had pressed the point that the Faith is misogynistic way too much here.

[Sword of the Morning Wood]

If Jayne Poole's role at Winterfell was just being taken by Sansa then it's entirely consistent with the story that Ramsay would rape her. It would be entirely inconsistent with his character if he didn't.

Misogyny runs right through ASOIAF because misogyny was rife in the medieval period.

[Dolorous Gabe]

To be honest, I've always thought that what had happened in the books had been a tad too unrealistic. I mean, Cersei is is the mother to the king and the head of House Lannister, whatever the Faith may do common women, I doubt they would choose this punishment for a queen and and the wealthiest person in the Seven Kingdoms. They might have made her do a walk of penance in a simple shift or a nightgown and maybe even cut her hair, but they should have never throw her naked into street. GRRM had pressed the point that the Faith is misogynistic way too much here.

I think you're forgetting that it is strongly suggested in the books that Kevan had a lot to do with the Penance Walk idea because he wanted Cersei to be shamed into forgetting her desire to rule in KL.

And IIRC it wasn't actually forced on her. She took it as a way to get out of her cell to be with Tommen.

GRRM also cleverly uses it to elicit complex emotional reaction in the reader, since at this point in the books we want dearly for her to be punished, but then when it comes in this form and we experience the whole thing from her perspective it is entirely inappropriate and unreasonable.

Edited to add: The thing that will matter most in the show's portrayal is exactly that - its portrayal and handling.

[nfe]

I just don't get how the Faith supposedly has the support of the people as portrayed in the show. Sure all the smallfolk are probably overjoyed to see their noble oppressors get their comeuppance, but I seem to recall the Faith storming into brothels and taverns, destroying the places and publicly shaming, if not outright assaulting anyone there. I promise you, poor people drink and engage in a lot more debauchery than the nobility. A populist movement isn't going to win over fans by outlawing popular things. :P

Well a populist, fundamentalist uprising was successful in Iran in the 70s... Cromwell and his hardline 'fun is bad!' gang won popular support... It does happen.

I always thought that the WOS was intended to be uncomfortably sexist - that was the whole point of it.

Yep.

To be honest, I've always thought that what had happened in the books had been a tad too unrealistic. I mean, Cersei is is the mother to the king and the head of House Lannister, whatever the Faith may do common women, I doubt they would choose this punishment for a queen and and the wealthiest person in the Seven Kingdoms.

I dunno. It's the type of thing that did happen in medieval Western Europe. Mary Bruce, King Robert I of Scotland's sister, was exposed in a cage hanging outside Roxburgh Castle, for instance.

I'm kinda torn on how it'll go down. I'd like to think viewers will realise it's meant to be depicting an offensive punishment which shames people for licentious behaviour in a negative light and is not simply exploiting a naked woman. I do fear lots of people will read it as the show (and the book, if they bother to investigate whether it's in there) saying 'promiscuous women are whores who deserve shaming'.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

If Jayne Poole's role at Winterfell was just being taken by Sansa then it's entirely consistent with the story that Ramsay would rape her. It would be entirely inconsistent with his character if he didn't.

Misogyny runs right through ASOIAF because misogyny was rife in the medieval period.

Then the question I pose is this: What character should be more consistent, Sansa or Ramsay? Which character is more important?

Sansa's been inconsistent ever since she agreed to go to Winterfell without a plan for her vengeance just for kicks, apparently. LF's been inconsistent when he marries his biggest trump-card to someone he doesn't know.

The issue is not that Ramsay raped her once they were married - It would have been ridiculous of him not to. It's the issue of putting Sansa in that position in the first place. The moment Sansa was in that room, she had to be raped. But the question is: Why was she in that room again?