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Varamyr? [book spoilers]


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I don't understand the big deal with wargs. So they can skin change into dogs/wolves. why is that more special / deserving of a different name than skin changers with boats/birds/anything else?

Well, in the books it's kind of a big deal. Arya saw

Nymeria and her pack, and even pulling Cat from the river. It also allowed her to beat The Kindly Man in the game and get her sight back. Jon saw through Ghosts eyes too. Which, in the books at least could allow Jon to survive FTW.

Now, Nymeria is disappeared and gone, and Jon has nothing. Ghost is an afterthought, barely that, this season. It's a total game changer to the story. But then again, not surprising.

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I don't understand the big deal with wargs. So they can skin change into dogs/wolves. why is that more special / deserving of a different name than skin changers with boats/birds/anything else?

Perhaps a Targaryen warg could easily control a dragon....could end up being useful. Do we know any Targaryen wargs? ;)

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I think the role of Varamyr turned into Karsi along the way.

According to Birgitte Hjort Sørensen, Karsi was originally supposed to be a man before the writers made some changes. So most likely, we've already seen "Varamyr".

I agree; unless Varamyr turns up in Ep9 somehow, I feel like the character was just changed into Karsi. Maybe they were just using the character name initially as a nod to book readers, without actually delving into the characters warging abilities.

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Hmm, just rewatched the old man getting out of his tent when the walkers approach. It's just as with the dogs start barking, so who knows.. I wouldnt be that surprised if, in the end, he's actually Varamyr...


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For all the searching in the background, how often does an important character pop up. They usually just hit you in the face with it. Not withstanding that there are many uncredited extras that are perhaps appear as an omage to a familiar character. Like Jayne Poole in the sewing circle with Sansa in the early episode.



I don't think they need Varamyr. They can just flashback in the opening to the conversation that Orrell has with Ygrette when he says. "you wouldn't love him [Jon] if you knew what he really is" Suggesting that Orell meant perhaps that Jon is more then just a full of crap traitor because a Warg can Id another .


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I don't understand the big deal with wargs. So they can skin change into dogs/wolves. why is that more special / deserving of a different name than skin changers with boats/birds/anything else?

BC to warg a wolf is a marriage. Not just an intrusion. The trust is mutual between man and beast.

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I started this because if it isn't known that Jon is warg he should not warg into Ghost after FTW, that would be bad storytelling. But what do I know. :dunno:

:agree: If they don't establish Jon's potential as a warg in episode 9, then having him warg into Ghost would come across as cheesy and far fetched.

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Perhaps a Targaryen warg could easily control a dragon....could end up being useful. Do we know any Targaryen wargs? ;)

you can't warg into a dragon. It is only warging if it is a dog or a wolf. Otherwise, it is skinchanging. I was asking about the differentiation. Ie why is it important that the stark kids are wargs specifically?
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you can't warg into a dragon. It is only warging if it is a dog or a wolf. Otherwise, it is skinchanging. I was asking about the differentiation. Ie why is it important that the stark kids are wargs specifically?

Yes, in the book a warg controls wolves, and skinchangers control evetything else. However, the show has not made that diferentiation, as Orell was called a warg, not skinchanger.

As to warging a dragon, has it been said it cannot be done?

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Yes, in the book a warg controls wolves, and skinchangers control evetything else. However, the show has not made that diferentiation, as Orell was called a warg, not skinchanger.

As to warging a dragon, has it been said it cannot be done?

you can't warg a dragon because a dragon isn't a wolf or a dog.
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Maybe the show is going for traumatic experiences awakening the warg ability. Bran started having his dreams after his fall. Arya might get them after going blind. Jon might warg after getting stabbed to (near?) death.



Imagine three or four episodes of Ghost acting very strangely before the characters and the audience realize Jon has been in his body. Perhaps Varamyr will be the one to confirm this.


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I don't understand the big deal with wargs. So they can skin change into dogs/wolves. why is that more special / deserving of a different name than skin changers with boats/birds/anything else?

Being a skinchanger is obviously a bigger deal. That's why it's a big deal when Bran realizes that he can see through other creatures besides Summer.

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Maybe the show is going for traumatic experiences awakening the warg ability. Bran started having his dreams after his fall. Arya might get them after going blind. Jon might warg after getting stabbed to (near?) death.

Imagine three or four episodes of Ghost acting very strangely before the characters and the audience realize Jon has been in his body. Perhaps Varamyr will be the one to confirm this.

... and then they realize they should not have burned Jon's body (because the ice cells haven't been established in the show either).
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Maybe the show is going for traumatic experiences awakening the warg ability. Bran started having his dreams after his fall. Arya might get them after going blind. Jon might warg after getting stabbed to (near?) death.

That's a nice theory.

I may be to optimist, but I feel we'll get hints Jon and Arya can warg before the end of the season.

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Do they really need warging, though? They may think it would needlessly cost them time.



If he's injured, they can just say he's alive, but in coma. No warging needed.


If he's dead, the person who's supposed to ressurect him will ressurect him anyway, whether he's in Ghost or not. They've already introduced Beric, who didn't warg anything.


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I started this because if it isn't known that Jon is warg he should not warg into Ghost after FTW, that would be bad storytelling. But what do I know. :dunno:

You are correct, if they don't address it soon, it won't translate well.

you can't warg a dragon because a dragon isn't a wolf or a dog.

Symantics, I meant Skinchange when referring to Dragons. Wargs in Norse mythology refer to a group of monstrous wolves descended from the God, Loki. I suspect GRRM derived something of the divinity aspect when creating the wargs of ASOIAF. There was a divine aspect involved via The Old Gods when the Stark children (and Jon) were gifted the direwolf pups. What were the chances that so many children in one family were wargs?

As to why I suggest why wargs and skinchangers are important to the story, I have pulled this from the Wiki, abridged:

“A skinchanger is a person with the ability to enter the mind of an animal and control its actions. It is much easier for a skinchanger to do so if a bond exists between the two parties. A skinchanger able to enter the mind of a wolf or dog is known as a warg…………… It is said the greatest of the skinchangers were the greenseers, who amongst many other things were also wargs. The greatest amongst them could wear the skin of any beast. One man in a thousand is born a skinchanger, and one skinchanger in a thousand could be a greenseer.”

Being a skinchanger is obviously a bigger deal. That's why it's a big deal when Bran realizes that he can see through other creatures besides Summer.

Yes, correct, see above. If it factors in a war of ice vs. fire and is helpful to control dragons, well, it could be really important. A Dragon rider can fall or be killed, but a skinchanger can still control a beast they are not touching. As Bran's abilities are among the greatest ever known, I think his role in the future fight could be pretty important.

Back to the OP, not sure if Varamyr will appear or not, but if they wish to include this kind of mentor for Jon, the sooner it happens, the more believable it will be. Varamyr recognized Jon's abilities in the books, so perhaps they will adapt this some way in the show. But who knows?

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