239JMFL34109 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Just like Dany and her magic microphone when she was adressing the people of mereen outside the walls. ;) Jon's scenes have been good so far but I'm worried about FTW. I don't think we are getting a pink letter in the show, instead it looks like Davos asking Jon for reinforcements. I really hope not. Why would Jon break his vows for Stannis when he never even did it for Robb? The Pink letter gave him 2 understandable reasons for breaking his vows 1) the NW was under threat by the Bolton's and 2) he wanted to save his little sister. He hasn't even broken his vows for someone he loves but nope, he would break them for Stannis....? Please, no! (It also looks bad based on the 'speculation' about Stannis in episode 9) i really get the feeling jon will find out about sansa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor92 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 also the wilding cannot be trusted according to a lot of the NW. nothing they say matters jon also took men loyal to him on this trip north cannot trust those wilding lovers. Don't underestimate people's capacity for self deception. ALSO they have a TON of foreshadowing for the scene the question for people who watch the show is not if something will happen but what What is a TON of foreshadowing? We have lots of angry reactions from Olly, sure, but I wouldn't count anything he does as a mutiny but more as the actions of a traumatized kid. Other than that we've had Edd disagreeing with Jon to go to Hardhome but surely he has now seen the real threat, plus he's Jon's biggest supporter in the books. Thorne is actually on a sort of redemption arc this season after being named First Ranger by Jon and it seems he's gaining more respect for Jon. Plus, Thorne really strikes me as the kind of guy who can make a lot of snarky comments but ultimately respects the chain of command. I believe Thorne wants to be Lord Commander but he would never stab the previous one to obtain that position (plus how likely is it he will be LC after going with the mutiny?). There'll be some tension in E9 at the gate but I believe that's it for all the foreshadowing. The books did a much better job at it in my opinion. Yes, all the show viewers are expecting Olly to do something but no one is gonna expect men of the Night's Watch to start a mutiny. If anything, the events the show created like Hardhome make a mutiny seem less plausible. Episode 9 was so well received because viewers were reminded of the real threat so while they may be expecting Jon to get in trouble, I don't think anyone will expect a mutiny now that it is so clear why Jon needs the Wildlings and how serious the threat of the WW is. Again, I'll have to see E10 for myself before I can draw conclusions. Maybe we'll get a totally different FTW than in the books. I'd say that we've had a lot of foreshadowing (but I wouldn't call it good foreshadowing) of Olly doing something suicidal, but nothing that seems to properly build up a FTW scene similar as those in the books. Either Thorne or Edd wouldn't make any sense as the stabbers and the other possible candidates in the show have unfamiliar faces and have not been properly introduced/set-up. Val: Val to me is unnessary as the whole "he loves wildings" keeps coming up. They know he got romantic and he has never denied it in the show. so the val thing if it was a big deals to them (i don't think it was really so as he was like let wildings through he was going to get betrayed logic be damned.) it has been replaced. Well Ygritte is dead and while he never denied it, he also implicatly stated that he had to do it to survive and spy on the Wildlings. All of that is weeks/months ago. In the show, Jon hasn't broken his vows since while he has done so in the books. That makes a rather big difference imo. Warging: i don't think they believe in wargs at all why would they believe he is one? Now that you mention it, I'm not sure if the Night's Watch are aware that he's a warg. The Wildlings definitely are aware of the fact though and so is Melisandre. So it's possible that a rumor of Jon being a warg is going on (I seem to remember that this is the case but cannot find the passage, maybe I'm wrong). letter: is minor be itself for course he lets wildling through and they are going to hate him. i think in the show he is going to get a letter from sansa and then he will try to save her and get attacked. A rather big difference between the books and show imo is that Jon thinks it's Arya and his connection with Arya and Sansa is not quite the same. Plus, in the books I don't believe he breaks his vows to save Arya. He only wants to go to Winterfell after Ramsay is threatening to attack Castle Black. Jon's primary purpose is, I believe, to defend the Night's Watch and Arya/Mance/Stannis come secondary. That's what makes the mutiny feel all the more like betrayal. Jon isn't doing it to become Lord of Winterfell, mix up in politics or save his sister. He's ultimately doing it to protect the Night's Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Ramsey never threatens Castle Black in the pink letter. In fact the letter tells Jon to come down to Winterfell twice which indicates that Ramsey ain't matching up the King's Road. The pink letter is just a very emotive way of asking for hostages and for Jon to reel his neck back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setoverset Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yeah but how could it make any sense as a mutiny? The only argument for a mutiny would be Jon's decision to let the Wildlings south of the wall. All the other reasons that support a mutiny in the book are gone in the show (Val, Mance, Jon warging, Cregan, etc.). Maybe some will doubt Jon's decision but then they'll start hearing all the rumors about the Night's King, Jon's stareoff, Jon killing a White Walker, the threat of the Others etc. etc. and most of their doubts should be gone. IMO just siding with the Wildlings would be enough for a number of them. The Wildlings have been the de facto enemy of the NW forever, and killed a huge number of the NW last season - they are to the NW what the Russians were to the American 30 years ago or the Germans were to the British/French 60 years ago. Jon is siding with them, and breaking a lot of his vows in the process. With Alliser stirring the pot, it be surprising if a good number of them DIDN'T despise Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~DarkHorse~ Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Ramsey never threatens Castle Black in the pink letter. In fact the letter tells Jon to come down to Winterfell twice which indicates that Ramsey ain't matching up the King's Road. The pink letter is just a very emotive way of asking for hostages and for Jon to reel his neck back in. The Lord Commander of the Nights Watch is told that his bastard heart will be carved out of his chest if he does not comply. That is a threat. A petty threat but still a threat. If you threaten the LC, you threaten the NW. With the Long Night approaching, Jon can't afford to have tension between the NW and the Warden of the North. It is better just to throw his weight behind a man (Stannis) who supports the NW and can help rally the North against the Others. The Bolton's are unreliable and won't be able to rally the North- they have openly threatened the LC and most of the North hate them. After the display at Hardhome, Jon will now realise that the NW and the Wildlings can't fight this threat alone, they need to start preparing the realm and rallying the troops. If he decides to send Stannis help for this reason (seeing the bigger picture) then I can understand. The NW is going to need to start getting involved in the politics of the realm, it is there only chance at taking on the White Walkers. However, if the show just have Jon decide to aid Stannis because 'Stannis needs your help and you are bros now, he also lent you those ships so be a good boy and do what he says' then that will be terrible. Although, I do think the Pink Letter was just the perfect excuse for Jon to go and save his little sister. Hopefully, he does know about Sansa. It makes him breaking his oaths more understandable on a personal level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 IMO just siding with the Wildlings would be enough for a number of them. The Wildlings have been the de facto enemy of the NW forever, and killed a huge number of the NW last season - they are to the NW what the Russians were to the American 30 years ago or the Germans were to the British/French 60 years ago. Jon is siding with them, and breaking a lot of his vows in the process. With Alliser stirring the pot, it be surprising if a good number of them DIDN'T despise Jon. QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
239JMFL34109 Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 What is a TON of foreshadowing? We have lots of angry reactions from Olly, sure, but I wouldn't count anything he does as a mutiny but more as the actions of a traumatized kid. Other than that we've had Edd disagreeing with Jon to go to Hardhome but surely he has now seen the real threat, plus he's Jon's biggest supporter in the books. Thorne is actually on a sort of redemption arc this season after being named First Ranger by Jon and it seems he's gaining more respect for Jon. Plus, Thorne really strikes me as the kind of guy who can make a lot of snarky comments but ultimately respects the chain of command. I believe Thorne wants to be Lord Commander but he would never stab the previous one to obtain that position (plus how likely is it he will be LC after going with the mutiny?). There'll be some tension in E9 at the gate but I believe that's it for all the foreshadowing. The books did a much better job at it in my opinion. Yes, all the show viewers are expecting Olly to do something but no one is gonna expect men of the Night's Watch to start a mutiny. If anything, the events the show created like Hardhome make a mutiny seem less plausible. Episode 9 was so well received because viewers were reminded of the real threat so while they may be expecting Jon to get in trouble, I don't think anyone will expect a mutiny now that it is so clear why Jon needs the Wildlings and how serious the threat of the WW is. Again, I'll have to see E10 for myself before I can draw conclusions. Maybe we'll get a totally different FTW than in the books. I'd say that we've had a lot of foreshadowing (but I wouldn't call it good foreshadowing) of Olly doing something suicidal, but nothing that seems to properly build up a FTW scene similar as those in the books. Either Thorne or Edd wouldn't make any sense as the stabbers and the other possible candidates in the show have unfamiliar faces and have not been properly introduced/set-up. Well Ygritte is dead and while he never denied it, he also implicatly stated that he had to do it to survive and spy on the Wildlings. All of that is weeks/months ago. In the show, Jon hasn't broken his vows since while he has done so in the books. That makes a rather big difference imo. A rather big difference between the books and show imo is that Jon thinks it's Arya and his connection with Arya and Sansa is not quite the same. Plus, in the books I don't believe he breaks his vows to save Arya. He only wants to go to Winterfell after Ramsay is threatening to attack Castle Black. Jon's primary purpose is, I believe, to defend the Night's Watch and Arya/Mance/Stannis come secondary. That's what makes the mutiny feel all the more like betrayal. Jon isn't doing it to become Lord of Winterfell, mix up in politics or save his sister. He's ultimately doing it to protect the Night's Watch. I think that minute he brings up helping the wildings everyone cannot stop talking about how he feel in love with a wildling no matter if it was true or not. I think the also built up a lot of foreshadowing with thorne, the very close election and etc...that jon is in danger. if the vote were held now on the show it would be lord commander thorne. also i get the feeling jon will find out about sansa neither theon or sansa have any reason to think jon knows they live or know that he knows about bran and rickon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everett Snow Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 There was no logic put into their arrival at Castle Black. What makes is worse is that the show didn't even attempt to explain why the ships didn't sail south of the Wall. If they had been run ashore, that would be fine. Why not go through Eastwatch? They have a tunnel. Or is it that both Eastwatch and the Shadow Tower have sealed their tunnels and Castle Black was the only one left? That... would have been contrived, but it would have been an explanation had it been brought up. But it's hard to even imply that that is what's happened since only Jon and the Wildlings arrive and Castle Black. If that were the only tunnel left and the Stannis' ships had been forced ashore by a storm north of the Wall, then they could have at least put some sailors in among the Wildlings. But, no. No explanation. No logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordi Nietos Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yeah, what did they need the ships for if they walk from the coast to Castle Black north of the Wall anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rise Above Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It was just done for dramatic effect. All movies/shows do this. No need to overthink it. You know that one scene in Jurassic Park where the T Rex flings the car down a cliff that minutes before was flatland? Doesn't make sense but it's cool to watch. Just go with the flow man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordi Nietos Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It was just done for dramatic effect. All movies/shows do this. No need to overthink it. You know that one scene in Jurassic Park where the T Rex flings the car down a cliff that minutes before was flatland? Doesn't make sense but it's cool to watch. Just go with the flow man. Do you know of forums where people write 10 page theories on minor parts of the Jurassic Park movies? I understand the series can't be absolutely faithful to the books, but the books are kind of made for overthinking, why not the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rise Above Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Do you know of forums where people write 10 page theories on minor parts of the Jurassic Park movies? I understand the series can't be absolutely faithful to the books, but the books are kind of made for overthinking, why not the show? Certain parts are made for overthinking. This was just one arrival scene. Let it go. Few care and even fewer noticed. It's just a case of bitter book nerds spotting a minor (and ultimately unimportant) inconsistency and going at it like wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperoreddy Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 For the sake of drama Eastwatch disappeared. Will reappear next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbringer Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yeah basically Jon just led the wildlings on a pointless 300km deathmarch through the snow, to a gate he could have bypassed. This episode is completely retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseHarrison Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 D&D forget everything that isn't 3 episodes ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Danford Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 maybe off topic, but anyone else think Thorne is just a redherring and will die trying to defend Jon in the FTW segment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Hodor Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Simple reason: budget. A book can have 19 different castles each with its unique stones. Show cannnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordi Nietos Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Certain parts are made for overthinking. This was just one arrival scene. Let it go. Few care and even fewer noticed. It's just a case of bitter book nerds spotting a minor (and ultimately unimportant) inconsistency and going at it like wolves. It would be nice if the writers cared. How many viewers have you polled to be so confident that few noticed/cared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yah well show has always given a big fuck you to geography at every given opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan of Westeros Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 maybe off topic, but anyone else think Thorne is just a redherring and will die trying to defend Jon in the FTW segment?Possible and highly plausible. Ser Alliser Thorne is Professor Snape of westeros! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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