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[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

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Is there any doubt that the Baratheons are the main human antagonists now? Even the Lannisters are more morally ambiguous.

In the show? Yes.

In the books? IF Stannis is even involved in Shireen's burning, it would be clearly for the greater good, not "hmm, let me makes things easier for me". So even if that happen there, nope.

To me it depends on the timing. This is bound to be a turning point in Stannis's story, and based on where we are in the books its not happening until well into the Winds of Winter, which means Stannis is being truncated significantly. I wouldn't expect Stannis to long outlive this development- it feels like a culmination and a catalyst for when the brittle iron breaks. Stannis's story seems to me to be a tragedy and this development would likely come very close to its conclusion. Still, the fact that this development has occurred seems to underscore that most theorizing can only be shortsighted. I can't see for the life of me how we get to this point and what comes after it. The southern storylines seem a bit more predictable to me.

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You do know that GRRM got his start writing screenplays adapting other people's work?

He knows the score here. He also knows that Season 7 is going to come out long before book 7.

Whoever monitors these boards for D&D (and they will have several people on it) knew that there was going to be a whhhaaaaaaaaaaaa from the Stanissphiles when the burning of Shireen came up. So they made sure to have them confirm that yes, this is how it happens in the books.

If you don't want the books to be spoiled, don't watch the show.

But really, anyone who didn't get that Stannis and Mel are as bad as the White walkers evil hasn't been paying attention. He is utterly unscrupulous and power mad, she is a fanatic of an evil cult.

I don't care about the books being spoiled. If Martin gave them permission cool. I just wasn't ever expecting D&D to confirm what was and wasn't coming from future books. I guess they felt they had to for this one.

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Soooooo, Aryas arc.

Does Trant know who Arya is? Or, does she have her first stalker?

I couldn't tell from his look.

And yeah, I also think Jaqen will creep on her eventually.

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This sickened me to the very core, which obviously was D&D's intent. There are certain acts that no character can ever come back from and this is the furthest one I could imagine. I don't want Brienne to be the one who kills him, however. I want it to be Ser Davos. This is the ultimate betrayal to our Onion K'nigg-it, and I would pay money to see him shorten his soon-to-be-ex boss by a head...or maybe something a little more, ahhh, long-lasting.

I'm wih you there. Davos killing Stannis would be loads more satisfying.

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Martin is enjoying reviving old movie theatres and turning old bowling alleys into art galleries. At least we get to see awesome renditions

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only on pg 22, they already sacrificed Shireen, they don't really need Sansa as LSH, I think her speech in promo is a misdirect.

The idea D&D are going to bring back Sansa as LSH is really stupid. They don't do reanimated characters cheating death. What is dead stays dead unless reanimated by evil forces.

Of course Sansa is going to have to have some sort of scene next week but since Jon gets stabby-stabby they can hardly kill another Stark in the same episode.

Still, expect a bunch of deaths, Trant certainly would make four named book characters who are dead in the series.

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Scattered thoughts:



  • Is the Dorne plot line really just to get Trystane to go to Kings Landing? Really?
  • Setting aside how pissed I am about Shireen's death...I'm just wondering why do that before the battle of Winterfell? Where is our emotional investment now?
  • Ramsay burning the food supplies with 20 guys is the worst contrivance ever.
  • The fighting pit scene is horrendous. There is not a single aspect of it that works on any level.

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In the show? Yes.

In the books? IF Stannis is even involved in Shireen's burning, it would be clearly for the greater good, not "hmm, let me makes things easier for me". So even if that happen there, nope.

Stannis does believe he's doing it for the greater good.

But the that he is burning members of his own family at Melisandre's belief he is AA, especially his only heir,--Shireen--is meant to bring home that Stannis is deluding himself as to his own true motivation. His ambition to be King.

Edited by TheReal_Rebel

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Well... sorry if this has been discussed before but does this mean that Tyrion, Missandei and Dany are all going to get Jorah's greyscale? The way they were holding hands and the camera kept focusing on their hand holding indicates we are in for two seasons of a greyscale party.


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As for the rest of the episode, Dorne bored me - nothing more than filler at this point in my eyes--although to be fair, I hated both Dorne and Pyke in AFfC. and I'm just so thankful we weren't subjected to Quentyn. I was underwhelmed by the end scene but not to the point it bothered me. Budgets and all that. I do wish they'd have put the CGI money into that scene, though, and not Hardhome.


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that was awesome! stop being pussies. stannis is just as evil in the books.

My thoughts as well. The fighting pit scene was about as perfect as can be done on the budget. That is a pretty mean dragon there.

Book Stannis is Al Qaeda level evil. If folk can't see that they have no conscience or soul.

And yes, that sort of thing was going on in the dark ages in the Danelaw parts of Britain.

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I don't get it how Shireen can be burned on that 6th book. Really, (If stannis is alive a big IF) Melisandre has already shown signs that she now believes that Jon Snow is Azor Ahai so why would she ask for this sacrifice. And if stannis is alive he probably suceed on the battle of winterfell which is one less reason to burn a daughter. Shireen is miles away so he would call her to burn her? the red woman would leave jon snow?




The only reason i can think for shiren to burn is that Selyse sacrifices her for revive Stannis. Anyone can figure the reasons beyond this burning? And why now? I think its just a punch in the face of bookreaders.


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RIP fAegon in the books and the show.

Young Griff is FAKEEEEEEE. Deal with it!

Although.....if Trystane is fAegon Jaime just agreed to put him on the Small Council.....pretty brilliant move by Doran.

Just kidding. Trystane is totally going to assassinate Tommen.

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