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[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

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The show is better than the books. I read the books first but the show has done it better by ommiting pointless characters and gettong to the point. great scene in the pits. well done D &D. you are legends.

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Anyone see inside the episode yet?



"When George first told us about this, it was one of those moments I remember looking at Dan and that's so horrible but also so good in a story sense." -- referring to Shireen burning



I'm not sure if Stannis will be there in the books if it happens... but maybe he is? I'd have guessed Mel would sacrifice her to bring back Jon or something.


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Although.....if Trystane is fAegon Jaime just agreed to put him on the Small Council.....pretty brilliant move by Doran.

Just kidding. Trystane is totally going to assassinate Tommen.

this really makes a lot of sense :)

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I rooted for Stannis knowing he was a tool. I don't get dissapointed when the tool works. A tool doesn't care about emotions or attachments, it exists to get the job done. I will still root for him after this, and once his task is finished and he is discarded I will root for the next tool that takes his place. Poor shireen though :(


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Having just seen it again, I can't believe they chose to put that Shireen scene next to the pit scene. Even if they wanted to contrast Dany and Stannis they failed because Drogon doesn't come because of Dany's revulsion for the blood being spilt but because her person was threatened.



Were people really able to even break even with the pit scene after Shireen's burning? I think if I hadn't read the books I might not even have watched the rest of the episode and if I had I don't know if Drogon could have impressed me much.


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Pretty devastated, both by what happened to Shireen and the way a major reveal, potentially, from book 6 was rushed forward when they had more than enough material in books 4.5.


Edited by HosteenOsteen

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Pretty devastate, both by what happened to Shireen and the way a major reveal, potentially, from book 6 was rushed forward when they had mote than enough material in books 4.5. Also, the alterations to Sansa and Jaime/Cersei and now this make the show so much more about the brutalization of girls and women than in the books. I just feel a lot more distant from this material now...and I had counted myself as a hardcore fan. I really have enjoyed reading the books and talking about them with everyone here but I can't see doing this as much now.

The brutalization of women and girls is a consistent theme in the books and in the show. Hell, the brutalization of basically anyone that isn't a powerful man.

Also, for those that over-emphasize Stannis' predicament in the show, the title of the episode and his conversation with Shireen are very relevant to his motivations. It's the same motivation he's had from the start of his campaign for the throne - his belief that what he is doing is destiny for the good of the realm. He gets that directly from Melisandre and he is basically eating out of her hand. (In both the book and the show)

There is nothing inconsistent about this with the books, when he reaches a point of doubt again he will seize upon his perceived destiny and do whatever it takes to achieve it. As he's done from the start.

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Pretty devastate, both by what happened to Shireen and the way a major reveal, potentially, from book 6 was rushed forward when they had mote than enough material in books 4.5. Also, the alterations to Sansa and Jaime/Cersei and now this make the show so much more about the brutalization of girls and women than in the books. I just feel a lot more distant from this material now...and I had counted myself as a hardcore fan. I really have enjoyed reading the books and talking about them with everyone here but I can't see doing this as much now.

Agreed, if GRRM is tired of it, then just be done with it and finish it.

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Blame GRRM, not the showrunners, they said Martin told them to do it.

Well, if GRRM told them before the first season that Stannis would eventually burn Shireen, that would certainly explain why D&D have seemed to cast him as the villain of the series from the very beginning. They had some inside knowledge the rest of us didn't. If.

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What the hell. I honestly did not see Stannis consenting to burn Shireen. Does D&D want us to support freaking Ramsay or what. I'm unsure if it will the same in the books though, I still think that if Shireen burns in the books Melisandre will do it behind Stannis' back.



Good to see that show Hizdahr doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Sons of the Harpy.


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Take away shireen and drogon and what is in this episode? Very close to nothing. Several minutes of mindless retard girls playing slap hands... Several minutes of meryn fucking trant being a pedo, wtf... The episode, like this season, is garbage.


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Well, if GRRM told them before the first season that Stannis would eventually burn Shireen, that would certainly explain why D&D have seemed to cast him as the villain of the series from the very beginning. They had some inside knowledge the rest of us didn't. If.

They have not confirmed that Stannis will be the one that burns her, only that she will burn.

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So help D&D if Arya gets raped next episode. I didn't consider it a possibility, then they set up Trant as a pedophile, and shown a willingness to burn a sweet young girl alive. I've got this gut wrenching fear the poison they gave Arya was a placebo, and that was the test.



I'll be amongst the pitchfork crowd this time.


Edited by TheNinjaDC

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Pretty gripping episode. Sad to see Shireen get offed the way she did but I suppose it was one way that Team Baratheon was not destined back to the crown afterall, especially when you lose devotion from your followers. I seriously doubt Davos will continue following him after he finds out.

Arya is back to making mistakes again... Wonder why Jaqar didnt act once he saw past that lie...

Because Jaqar knows that it takes time to train faceless men. If Arya is not ready to kill today he must wait.

Yeah right, Martin told them Stannis burns Shireen in the books, so they are spoiling the books now?

And George writing Stannis like... i have a duty to my daughter... no more burnings... if i die you will put my daughter on the throne... and all of a sudden he rides fast to Castle Black and shouts BURN HER, MUST BE DONE...

That's going to be quite a challenge to make sense and top some fan fiction stories i've read

Next Jon turns into an Other and brings the Long Night and Ned is revealed as the main villain after all by pulling all the strings...

Oh don't worry about GRRM's plot issues. He admits himself that he is having trouble getting his characters to the right places. But since the pink letter is obviously from either someone in the Stannis camp or from LittleFinger, it probably has something to do with burning Shireen.

Remember that all Mel needs to do is drug Shireen and take her South to burn her.

Maybe they didn't want to associate the Shireen burning with Jon's resurrection if that's how it happens in the books. That was pretty hard to watch though.

I suspect people are going to find their Jon resurrection theories completely dashed. If he is AA then he self-resurrects.

You internet warriors read the books and think you can write a better story then D&D is laughable. Your sense of entitlement is a reminder of how bullheaded you book readers are.

Absolutely! I am so enjoying this series and listening to the squeaking from the complainers only makes it better.

These are the folk who lorded it over the unsullied at the Red Wedding. And now D&D are giving them a taste of their own medicine. The only folk I know who are bought into Stannis are bookreaders.

Why even give him the time? His name is based off of the lamest character of the book anyways.

Oh JonCon is an epic character name. He is Jon the con, the con about Jon. Jon the Con Retcon's Jon because JonRetcon is there to con.

The only evidence that Aegon only had two children with Elia comes form a character called "I am going to con you about Jon" and it is third hand at best.

The show has dropped some hints about Ned not being Jon's father but there are absolutely no clues for R+L=J for anyone who isn't a bookreader.

Of course when the bookreaders find out R+E=J they will be squeaking about how this is changing the books again. And when book 7 comes out they still won't believe it because obviously great literature has a plot so obvious that everyone guesses it by book 2.

JonCon the con about Jon was added to book 5 after D&D answered GRRM's question about Jon's mother. Presumably they guessed right and GRRM thought it necessary to muddy the waters a bit more.

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