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[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

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Wow. I hate to repeat what others have said, but that is my honest reaction.

Please let "No One" kill Meryn Trant in the finale. I was hoping they would let her do it last night.

I sincerely hope that the Shireen story line plays out differently in the novels. I have grown to have a grudging respect for Stannis and more or less a fondness for the Red Woman. I was looking to both of them as allies for Jon Snow. But, if this is where Martin is going I am disappointed. Not in Martin but in the "characters." If they burn Shireen, that places them below Cersei, below Walder Frey, below Gregor Clegane, I can't quite say below Ramsey Bolton but definitely on that level. . I can't see how any of the Starks will ever be reconciled to Stannis after that. When Stannis sent Davos away I knew it was curtains for the Princess. I thought that the Queen acted a little out of character from book Selyse but it added to the drama. You wonder if Stannis will relent in the end.

The fighting pit scene was totally bananas. I knew what was coming and yelled anyway. Great stuff.

Wow, I think I enjoyed this episode the most of any this season.

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Is that a surprise to you? We know D&D have access to the Winds draft material and George gave them the story arcs for all the main characters. That's ignoring that they work in collaboration

We also have grrm say the stories will part ways...

If you know GRRM will burn Shireen don´t tell just out of fear from the bashing you'll get from fans...

Sansa, Jaime, Jon in Hardhome... things are different, so Shireen being burned with Stannis's permission might happen or not, but no, they were affraid of the backlash and told "george said this to us"... many knew Shireen would probably burn in the books, but with her father´s permission? (makes no sense since she is his only heir and he is in more danger than ever) D&D just said what grrm is going to do, deviations aside... that's spoiling with no reason, and some good time and writting aswell as a 360º character turn, will have to happen for this to ocur in the books (Stannis giving the order)

Edited by Laughing Storm Reborn

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Well they did burn a child alive.

The key word in my paragraph was 'ending' though. The episode didn't end with that scene. Plus, Shireen didn't have the appearance of plot armor in the way Ned or Robb Stark did (though her death was quite shocking).

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Where did he say that? I heard him say characters but not a specific number.

It's been reported here in the UK four character deaths not in the books.

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Shireen dies so Jon can live.

You'll see

I could live with this

Was that girl that Meryn Trant went off with, even a whore? Or did the owner just grab any girl who looked young enough?

Judging by her outfit, I am thinking she was either a street kid or a kitchen hand

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The key word in my paragraph was 'ending' though. The episode didn't end with that scene. Plus, Shireen didn't have the appearance of plot armor in the way Ned or Robb Stark did (though her death was quite shocking).

Shocking? I thought her fate was spelled out a few episodes back, and I'm surprised how many people were surprised.

There was that dialogue between Mel and Selyse, with Selyse bitching about - this time - her daughter's imperfection, and Mel saying something like: "Those scars mean nothing to the Lord of Light, she has king's blood in her veins". From that moment, it was only a question when, not if, Melisandre will burn Shireen.

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I'm worried about FTW now. It looks like Jon won't break his vows for the people he loves (Ned, Robb and Ygritte) but he will break them because Stannis needs his help....?

I was thinking the same thing and that's a shit way of doing it but it is what it is since they haven't set up the Pink Letter at all yet.

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And her shocked, terrified face... Ugh! I could do without that scene.

I think Meryn was indicating he wanted a new virgin every night. *barf*

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Am I the only one who was bothered by the weak CGI in the end? Don't see any comments about this.

Shireen :*( ... RIP ... the best child actor of the show IMO... that was Cruel D&D... the first scene of whole GoT while which I just begged PLEASE NO... even Red Wedding was like "well.. kinda expected"... but this... SHIREEEEEN!!!! NOO! NOIOOOOOOO!!!!

I was bothered that it was so easy and clean for Dany. Drogon went for the harpies with no other damage? Wasn't she meant to be whipping him and having her hair burnt off?

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Shocking? I thought her fate was spelled out a few episodes back, and I'm surprised how many people were surprised.

My thought exactly. Members of this forum have been discussing the scene since the season began. I don't understand why anyone would be "shocked".

Edited by Bud RR Martin

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Normal fans: "Clearly, Jon and Dany are the heroes of the story."

Stannis fanboys: "There are no heroes in GoT! None at all. They will both die pointless deaths. Except Stannis. He's a hero and will sit the iron throne. Because he's the Mankiss."

Normal Fans: "He's a jerk and always has been. No one in the entire realm likes him. Not Ned, Cat, Tyrion, his brothers, Jon. no one."

Stannis Fankiss: "He's misunderstood!!! He's the Manliest!!! I would totally have his babies!!!!!!"

Normal fans: "You are going to be so disappointed."

Stannis Spearwives: "No, it's all D&D's fault everyone hates him. GRRM will avenge him. He's Stannis! My Mancrush!"

Normal fans: "you need help."

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Members of this forum have been discussing the scene since the season began. I don't understand why anyone would be "shocked".

I started lurking in this forum by 2001. It was already this forum's consensus that Shireen was a walking sacrifice. The only debate was whether it would be sacrificed by Stannis, or without his knowledge. So we are exactly at the same point that 15 years ago.

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In the books Shireen, Selyse and Melissandre are all back at Castle Black. It is very possible for Shireen to be sacrificed without Stannis's consent or participation. It is "possible" that Selyse does it without Melissandre's participation (Ok, I hate Selyse and I am kind of looking for an out for Stannis and the Red Woman.). We don't know what Martin will do but we do know that it will be different than what we just saw.


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Is it just me, or did the whole scene with Dany and co. surrounded in the arena, not look a lot like a scene from Star Wars Attack of the clones ? :eek:

 

Yeah at the start I thought I was watching Gladiator, then it jumped to the Star Wars universe.

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Drogon's flight was really emotional but the whole Shireen affair... I don't know what to think. I really liked Stannis so far but that was horrible.


However, my main complaint with the episode is Jon's return. He could have mentioned to Sam or Thorne that he had just looked Death right in the eyes or something. I half expected the episode to begin with Jon giving a speech about what he had seen at Hardhome, instead... nothing. There was no follow up for awesomeness that was episode 8. Right now it looks like the battle of Hardhome was just there to fill up the "big fighting scenes" quota for season 5.


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