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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

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He's not going to rally the North as a kinslayer who burned alive his daughter to a foreign god, either. Book Stannis, as you remember, rallied the Northern clans to go to Winterfell to get Ned's not daughter and Mel gave up bitching about the Old Gods. He also, ya know, had Asha with him, daughter of a king from a line of kings longer than the Baratheon line, and hasn't burned her yet.

He's also not going to save the realm starving to death in a freezing camp with no food. Given his situation on the show he needs Winterfell. He doesn't know it yet, but there's a good chance he's going to end up with a Stark if he succeeds in taking the castle. That, along with the weather clearing will justify Shireen's burning to Mel and she will let Stannis know it.

Quite frankly it doesn't matter what book Stannis had or what he hasn't done yet. We're talking about show Stannis.

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I love the sound of Stannis lovers whining about their hero. Smells like victory...

Of course Stannis is going to burn Shireen in the books. It was obvious from the first scene where Mel burns the idols. Stannis has been an evil character since before he murdered his brother with the shadow baby. Shame on you folk for liking such a monster.

GRRM said that four characters die in this season that are alive in the books. But he didn't say anything about them surviving in the next book.

Stannis is the last of the Baratheon line and he clearly isn't fit for the throne morally. We now have a battle for winterfell between two of the worst baddies in the books.

Oh and that littlefinger chap isn't nice either and probably doesn't much care what happens to Sansa.

Yes. This is spot on.

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So in the very first shot of the preview, who was that person high up in the mountains?


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I dont hate Stannis for doing it. End of day, his made the greatest sacrifice in order to save his army. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. He showed that he is willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for the good of the realm.

From "The Americans" season 3: “That’s what evil people tell themselves, when they do evil things.”

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This was a great episode. I suppose non-book readers really feared Dany will get suddenly killed, because they knew what happened back in episodes 1x09 and 3x09.



Stannis's sacrifice of Shireen would help him for some time, but let's not forget he's in the North where the Old Gods rule, and they hate the kinslayers. They will not forgive that.



After I saw how Tyrion saved Missandei from that son of the harpy, I thought there might be a new romance between these two.



We all expect Meryn Trant to die in the next episode, but now I really wonder how will Trant meet his fate in the books.



Can't wait for next Sunday.


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Anyone else think that Arya WON'T pose as a prostitute next episode?

They made it pretty clear in the episode that the woman wanted her away from the brothel, and I don't think she'll magically change her mind.

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I want to understand why NOW! Forget about this discussion if Stannis is good or bad (pointless).



He tells his daughter he loves her, she is his only heir and Baratheon.



Then on a unlikely raid of 20 men they manage to destroy all the food, horses and weapons with fire. Although this unlikely situation is clearly harshy what does he think this burning will achieve? Food rain? Weapon's ? Horses? Then he wins winterfell and what? "now i'm heirless and have a empty castle" (Remember that his plot with the northerns does not exist in the series).



If Shireen is to burn in the books i do believe is going to be especifically to do something like Ressurrect Jon Snow/Stannis, Do something against the whitewalkers or the winter not something that is related to the iron throne, cause having an heir is really important to that quest, lineage and shit...



Now the tvshow has another problem, Little fucking finger is now the Hero of the north cause Bolton and Baratheons are equally hated. There is no nice guy and i'm affraid they will try to bring this role to Brienne, Davos or Jon Snow.


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I was replying in the Stannis thread but it got locked so I guess I will post it here:

Exactly-- if Stannis takes Winterfell, then what?

Obviously his narrative isn't over and he'll be facing more and more disasters, at which point maybe GRRM had planned for him to sacrifice her then

I agree. There might be a dire situation that needs a solution. Like say, the Wall falling and the Others flooding into the North. Remember in ADwD when Bran sees a human sacrifice through the eyes of the Hearttree? Foreshadowing?

Now what would the sacrifice be for? Perhaps a stone dragon to combat the Others? Some other spell to combat the great blizzards? A lot can happen in the next book. And as to Shireen being at the Wall and Stannis at Winterfell...The Lord Commander was just assassinated and the Nights Watch and the Wildlings have begun fighting. Do people think that Selyse and Melissandre are just going to stay at Castle Black? No, they will flee to the only place they can. To Winterfell.

Finally, I disagree with the people saying that this was totally out of character for Stannis. What did Mel say of Stannis? That he is a righteous man. Was this the "right" thing to do? To burn one girl so that thousands could survive? Sort of like killing a few "dozen" at dinner rather than to kill 10,000 men in battle. As opposed to not capturing or murdering 3 bastards instead causing a war that killed thousands, including yourself and some of your own family. Oh, Ned...

Don't get me wrong, I would rather die than do something like that to my own daughter. (just look at my second quote in the auto signature below) Heavy is the head who wears the crown.

Edited by Trebla

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Tyrion's gonna bang Missandei.

Be honest I would too, but I hope she says no, but then Saint Tyrion would probably say, that's alright sweetling.

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The show has done a good job in the last couple episodes establishing Cersei and Stannis as diametric opposites. Cersei will burn cities to save her children; Stannis will burn his child to save the realm. These are really the only virtues (I won't say redeeming virtues) of two characters who are otherwise ruthless, self-deluded villains through-and-through.



My only real disatisfaction with the episode was how easily Ramsay crippled Stannis's army, but that disatisfaction is obliterated by a wave of awesome if Mel helped it along.


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Not gonna lie, I totally bawled my eyes out at the Shireen scene. That actor is just so adorable, and she's so committed to helping her dad even though she's not even highly respected in the family. I actually thought Stannis had told Shireen when he said "forgive me" and seeing her being walked to the pyre before she realised what was going on, I kind of just thought she knew. So then seeing her react and I realised she must not have been told, it just got to me so much. She was absolutely terrified and upset and just wanted her parents, god even talking about it now makes me feel upset. I've already watched the "inside episode 9" youtube video and breifly rewatching the scene I already started to tear up loll. Plus those screams of terror and pain are just spine chilling.



To be honest I'm surprised Mel did this, I mean it's kind of surprising that Stannis allowed this too after his speak with her a few episodes ago. But I also remember the chat between Mel and Shireen last season when she told her about good and evil. I don't know, I had a feeling it was going to happen, we all did, but I still can't believe she actually did it. I always think of Mel as a good guy but I think this is a reminder that she technically isn't a good guy. I don't know, I'm conflicted.



Not sure about the Dany scene either, there were some moments where Jorah could've easily been killed. I thought it was terrifying the way all the Harpy's appeared, though I think they also could've easily killed Dany if they wanted to; it was idiotic the way they were only attacking one at a time when they surrounded them in the centre of the pit. Tbh I'm just glad Hizdar was killed, I hated that guy.


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please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

please don't put Arya in any sexual situation

Why do you even watch this show? Just be done with it, it's quite clear all it does is make you angry...

Anyways, the reason I quote the above is...have you read the Mercy chapter? Because sexualizing herself is exactly how Arya gets to Raff the Sweetling. So, if (as it appears from your posts) D&D have to stick to the books, then how can you criticize this choice?

I'm all for objective criticism, but yours is beyond ridiculous.

Why not just admit, you want them to adapt the books exactly as YOU want them to, and when they inevitably don't, you freak out. It's gotten really old. Just stop watching already.

Edited by HousePotterz

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Anyone else think that Arya WON'T pose as a prostitute next episode?

They made it pretty clear in the episode that the woman wanted her away from the brothel, and I don't think she'll magically change her mind.

No, it is book canon she does: 'Mercy'. And selling cockles was often a cover for prostitution. Molly Maolone is implied to be either a prostitute or the only fishmonger who isn't.

It would be stupid to kill Trant in the brothel with all his men round him though. Lure him somewhere quiet and then dump him into a canal.

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What about if you all stop worrying whether I watch or not the show and try to use better defences than "if you don't like it, don't see it!".



Again, GoT is a very popular show that has a terrible portrayal of women. It deserves criticism and hard. If I see an offensive billboard on the street, I'm suppose to simply shut my eyes? No. Believe me. I live in a place with shows that are 1000% more offensives than GoT. For years, people has been saying "if you don't like it, don't watch it, then!". And guess what? We have even more offensive shows that portray racism and homophobia in a positive light and people still says "if you don't like it, don't see it!".


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The show has done a good job in the last couple episodes establishing Cersei and Stannis as diametric opposites. Cersei will burn cities to save her children; Stannis will burn his child to save the realm. These are really the only virtues (I won't say redeeming virtues) of two characters who are otherwise ruthless, self-deluded villains through-and-through.

Brilliant!

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Oh and I'm not sure what will happen to Stannis' legacy/what he will be known for in the future. I think that people will have distrust in him due to his burning of Shireen, but also we saw in the preview of next week that the storm has stopped and is melting so the burning has obviously worked, so then maybe there's a possibility people will kind of worship him because they know he can make things happen if the red god allows it.


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No, it is book canon she does: 'Mercy'. And selling cockles was often a cover for prostitution. Molly Maolone is implied to be either a prostitute or the only fishmonger who isn't.

It would be stupid to kill Trant in the brothel with all his men round him though. Lure him somewhere quiet and then dump him into a canal.

Book canon doesn't matter here though. I severely doubt that Arya will flirt or proposition Trant.

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The show has done a good job in the last couple episodes establishing Cersei and Stannis as diametric opposites. Cersei will burn cities to save her children; Stannis will burn his child to save the realm. These are really the only virtues (I won't say redeeming virtues) of two characters who are otherwise ruthless, self-deluded villains through-and-through.

That's a very well-observed parallel. Kudos.

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The show has done a good job in the last couple episodes establishing Cersei and Stannis as diametric opposites. Cersei will burn cities to save her children; Stannis will burn his child to save the realm. These are really the only virtues (I won't say redeeming virtues) of two characters who are otherwise ruthless, self-deluded villains through-and-through.

Brilliant!

Yep, It's like what Davos told Stannis off-screen in ASoS: That he had the cart before the horse. He was trying to win the throne to save the realm when he should have been trying to save the realm to win the the throne.

Of course this probably put him over the moral event horizon and I think "Black Iron" Stannis will soon break because he cannot bend.

Edited by Trebla

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