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Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

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Wait... are you trusting D&D's interpretation of whatever Martin told them? Lol, honey, you're better than that!

I tell you. I'm 99.999999% the conversation was like this:

GRRM: So, Shireen gets burned in name of Stannis' cause.

DD: Awesome. Stannis burns Shireen.

GRRM: No, no... I said she gets burned on his name...

DD: So, he orders to burn her.

GRRM: Yes... :rolleyes: he burns her. :dunno:

DD: Cool.

Im so shocked I dont know what to think. This is a mess anyway. And mostly as a custumer of his products for ten years, Im pissed with Mr Martin. He is the last responsable for letting this great story turn into this one way or the other. Either being his idea or because of selling his soul to D&D for some money and flashy cgi.

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because they said it. It was ambition vs family love. Not duty vs family love.

When Stannis wanted to burn Gentry he clearly told Davos that the realm was more important than one boy.

Shireen was his moment to prove it.

Stannis is ruthless in his conviction and sense of duty. He will do anything to "protect" Westeros. He is tough as nails.

Why does Shireen's death surprise you?

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Why do you think that?

Ramsay never said what he wanted the 20 men for. We just assume its a commando squad to attack Stannis.

Melisandre walked out and looked over at the tent BEFORE it went aflame. Curious she knew where to look.

The camp lit on fire at different points at the same time. Even if you wanted to believe Ramsay had a big barrel labeled "DYNO-MITE" with a thin trail of gunpowder or something then be my guest. Im sure D&D will offer you a writing gig.

Why exactly is this theory crackpottery?

That's how the show rolls. Ramsay also beat the Ironborn wearing silk pants and no shirt while they were in chain mail, and then they ran away from his dogs., if you think the show didn't intend for that to be his 20 men ninja squad, you're wrong. They did. Of course it was unrealistic and stupid as fuck, but the show doesn't care.

Mel sees this crap in her fires, hello.

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When Stannis wanted to burn Gentry he clearly told Davos that the realm was more important than one boy.

Shireen was his moment to prove it.

Stannis is ruthless in his conviction and sense of duty. He will do anything to "protect" Westeros. He is tough as nails.

Why does Shireen's death surprise you?

because they made it clear that it was ambition and not duty.

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because they said it. It was ambition vs family love. Not duty vs family love.

D&D said ambition? Considering Stannis is more duty and honor bound than Ned that to save the realm(from his pov) it fit.. but ambition..no way. Sorry.

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And he sentenced people to death for not following his red god who demands human sacrifices.

So the death sentences are not exactly for crimes that normal people would recognize.

What we are seeing here is lots of people rationalizing like mad. Stannis began bad and has become steadily more evil over time. He would have caused the death of most of the people living in Kings Landing to gain the throne.

read the books.

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Im so shocked I dont know what to think. This is a mess anyway. And mostly as a custumer of his products for ten years, Im pissed with Mr Martin. He is the last responsable for letting this great story turn into this one way or the other. Either being his idea or because of selling his soul to D&D for some money and flashy cgi.

For what it matters, read his second to last (erm... penultimo?) post in his blog. He's very pissed.

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For what it matters, read his second to last (erm... penultimo?). He's very pissed.

what? Im not following you : (

Edit. Now I do. Im about to look at it.

Edited by Señor de la Tormenta

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^^^LOL. It was the best episode ever

Well, that's debatable but seriously it was a really good episode. The pieces are perfectly placed for the internet to get broken next week. I"m honestly surprised that its getting so much hate. I guess producers went a little overboard marketing to women. They accidentally scooped up a bunch of feminists and vegan yoga bloggers. I swear it's like some people go to the ASOIAF wiki page for their reading material.

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I don't disagree, but its funny how the Boltons seem like secondary antagonists when you consider what they have done.

Betrayed the fan favourite family... literally stabbing them in the heart

Raped the daughter of the fan favourite family

Tortured and gelded a fan favourite

Sends a man to kill/kidnap the crippled child of the fan favourite family

Hunts, rapes and skins women

And yet these guys still aren't the 'big bad'

thank you except there is simply never going to be one 'big bad' in this narrative. there always will be characters whose actions are at one point horrendous and at another admirable in some way. that is the author's philosophy and chosen point of view.

why can't readers and viewers accept this as what they have signed on for?

the boltons, the freys, the lannisters, whomever are never going to be the ultimate big bad. if any group has a chance at that it is the white walkers.

and I was never a big fan of book Stannis. show Stannis is somewhat more tolerable, but there is no way I ever thought he was heroic material.

no ranking horrors is something we don't want to get into, but for me the worst human creature in the story has to be Ramsey.

and I agree, Roose would flay Ramsey on a moment's notice if it were to benefit him.

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what did he say? I cant find anything... this is my worst asoif day ever

He is there praising a show and a book that have been adapted good. He also said "and the books are better". Also, he's saying Edmure actor is there, and he hopes they can call him again.

Subtext: They ruined my books. I hate GoT. Go and see something else. Bastards.

ETA: fixing a lot of mistakes cuz my brain kinda blinked :lol:

Edited by JonCon's Red Beard

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the only good scenes were the ones with arya and even dorne was okay last night



the wall scene was pretty weird considering they came from the north nd then didn't even really discuss what happened



stannis trusting melisandre was dumb considering the leeches didn't even kill all three kings, dont even get me started on Selyse breaking down all of the sudden after being a heartless psycho religious fanatic the entire show



and then the daznak pit was good up until they were surrounded...



very forced. just came off as a jump the shark episode to me. My father was in the same boat as well and he doesn't even read the books. he just says the episode seemed off and out of touch with the rest of the show



Arya scenes though were enjoyable as always and hopefully the dornish plot doesn't turn into a filler but that depends on next week. also whats all this I'm hearing about how D&D weren't even going to include Dorne in the show but the book readers were crying about it?

Edited by Gendry_Goldeneyes

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He feels extremely guilty about Renly's death; he is committed to protecting the realm from the Others, not just winning the IT, he doesn't always listen to Mel, he liberates DM from the Ironborn and restores it to it's rightful owners, he rallies the Northern clans to his cause to go to Winterfell voluntarily, he burns NO ONE who he hasn't already convicted of a death sentence crime, he doesn't burn Mance for refusing to bend the knee but for being a deserter of the Night's Watch...

I have a different view on what he is committed to.

Ramsay already rooted out the Ironborn from DM, there's no screentime in the world to rally Northern clans, what death sentence crimes were those?

Burning Mance for deserting, fair enough.

Instead in the show, Stannis personally led the attack against King's Landing, he showed his daughter fatherly love, he didn't always listen to Mel, he intends to liberate Winterfell, he lent his ships to Jon being dedicated to protect the realm from the Others.

I feel like show-Stannis has good traits too.

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