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[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

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GRRM: Guys, I hesitate to sell the rights to a series I haven't finished yet. You know I take a long time to write these books, right?



D&D: Yeah, we know. But don't worry, there's lots to catch up on and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.



GRRM: Ok, I trust you guys will do a good job. Here's how the story is going to unfold...



1 year later.



D&D: So George, we did the pilot and it was a disaster. We forgot to include the part where Jaime and Cersei are siblings [true], which made pushing Bran out the window total nonsense. Man we are not good at this. We're re-doing the pilot.



GRRM: Uh. Ok. Well. I guess. Just do the best that you can.



D&D: Gosh, thanks, George! Oh, we're cutting Lady Stoneheart and Jeyne Poole and Jeyne Westerling and many others. And we're inventing a sassy prostitute named Ros because audiences love sassy prostitutes.



GRRM: Right. Uh. Ok. Shit. Well, I guess the books are the books and the show is the show. *sigh*


Edited by Borodin

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GRRM: Guys, I hesitate to sell the rights to a series I haven't finished yet. You know I take a long time to write these books, right?

D&D: Yeah, we know. But don't worry, there's lots to catch up on and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

GRRM: Ok, I trust you guys will do a good job. Here's how the story is going to unfold...

1 year later.

D&D: So George, we did the pilot and it was a disaster. We forgot to include the part where Jaime and Cersei are siblings [true], which made pushing Bran out the window total nonsense. Man we are not good at this. We're re-doing the pilot.

GRRM: Uh. Ok. Well. I guess. Just do the best that you can.

D&D: Gosh, thanks, George! Oh, we're cutting Lady Stoneheart and Jeyne Poole and Jeyne Westerling and many others. And we're inventing a sassy prostitute named Ros because audiences love sassy prostitutes.

GRRM: Right. Uh. Ok. Shit. Well, I guess the books are the books and the show is the show. *sigh*

You must have been in the room. Otherwise this is just childishly insulting to both GRRM and D&D. Please take it to the rant and rave thread.

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GRRM: Guys, I hesitate to sell the rights to a series I haven't finished yet. You know I take a long time to write these books, right?

D&D: Yeah, we know. But don't worry, there's lots to catch up on and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

GRRM: Ok, I trust you guys will do a good job. Here's how the story is going to unfold...

1 year later.

D&D: So George, we did the pilot and it was a disaster. We forgot to include the part where Jaime and Cersei are siblings [true], which made pushing Bran out the window total nonsense. Man we are not good at this. We're re-doing the pilot.

GRRM: Uh. Ok. Well. I guess. Just do the best that you can.

D&D: Gosh, thanks, George! Oh, we're cutting Lady Stoneheart and Jeyne Poole and Jeyne Westerling and many others. And we're inventing a sassy prostitute named Ros because audiences love sassy prostitutes.

GRRM: Right. Uh. Ok. Shit. Well, I guess the books are the books and the show is the show. *sigh*

This is fan fiction and it is not allowed on the forums.

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Wow.

I haven't seen intensity like this since the last Creation Vs Evolution thread I was at some time ago.

People do realise that A Song of Ice and Fire is not the Bible, right?

I hope so.

Anyways.

I was shocked that Stannis arranged the burning, and it didn't really kick in 'til Selyse asked him to stop the madness...her reaction brought tears to my eyes because I then knew that this wasn't an instance of 'glamour'. I cried for about 5 minutes, even though I know that Shireen's royal blood is going to get her burned by Mel one day or another.

I was expecting some sort of dragon training knowledge being spouted off by Tyrion before Dany and Drogon met up, but, eh.

I am far from being an apologist for anything, book or show, but I do wonder why the word keeps getting bandied about when it comes to GoT show-watchers as a group. I'm not allowed to like being entertained? Huh. I did not know that. Guess I should stop reading the books, as I don't seem to have the intelligence to know what the overall story is about. Sorry Mr. Martin.

eta: And, am I the only one who thought from the beginning that the prostitute is the leader of the Harpies?

Nope. I said the same thing after the second Unsullied got whacked...

BTW, A couple of points:

Stannis didn't burn Shireen just so he could take WF. Davos clearly told him that they didn't have enough food left to return to CB, once Ramsay and Seal Team Six pulled off their mission.

The snow was too deep to go forward and they couldn't go back. They were basically facing a death sentence, which meant no rightful king on the IT, and a free pass for the WW to take over the south.

Debate if you will whether book Stannis would have burned his daughter to escape a desperate situation, but it wasn't "just so he could take Winterfell". There were much bigger fish to fry.

Also, it's getting a bit tiresome reading the scores of "I'm never watching again!" and "That's it! I'm done!" after every episode. (except apparently, Hardhome) If D & D's adaptation honestly angers you that much, just stop watching.

Please.

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Cas Stark, on 07 Jun 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

Very clever plotting though. In one move they provide means, motive and opportunity! Of course its not Arya's motive but its four seasons since Trant murdered Sylvio and that was war.

Sylvio?

Trant went to Braavos, not Hoboken... :P

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Then it will be BS. I'll say it now, I'll say it when the book comes out. It won't be the first misstep by the author,

I commend your honesty, you are one of the few anti-show people I've seen with the capacity to be fair even while being harsh.

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I commend your honesty, you are one of the few anti-show people I've seen with the capacity to be fair even while being harsh.

GRRM certainly isn't infallible. If he makes Stannis the full villain he is now in the show(and I think he will), than it really is weak. Cant be mad at D&D if it was Martin's idea, although they could've made the circumstances leading up to the burning more believable.

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GRRM certainly isn't infallible. If he makes Stannis the full villain he is now in the show(and I think he will), than it really is weak. Cant be mad at D&D if it was Martin's idea, although they could've made the circumstances leading up to the burning more believable.

With that last part I certainly agree.

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man the stannis actor is great what else has he been on?

The only I remember seeing him that was of note was the movie Spy Game with Robert Redford and Brad Pitt. I thought it was a pretty decent movie... and he plays a d*ck in that movie, too.

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Only in the show. Not the in books.

He was burning people left and right on Storm's End when he was sulking after Blackwater. Whomever Mel said to burn was burned. Salladhor gave Davos the 411 after his rescue.

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He was burning people left and right on Storm's End when he was sulking after Blackwater. Whomever Mel said to burn was burned. Salladhor gave Davos the 411 after his rescue.

read the books. stannis never burnt nobody because worshipping other gods. ever.

you are not even getting the castle right.

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I find it hilarious that all of the Stannis fanboys keep saying 'never in a million years would he do this' and others who think differently 'clearly don't understand him and haven't paid attention to him while reading the books'.

LOL just stop. He killed his brother, other family members, and wanted to kill his nephew. D&D literally said GRRM told us this was going to happen in the book so we put it in. How you can still blindly make these claims is perplexing. There is so much pointing at this happening in TWOW it's silly.

D&D Said. Thats fantastic, youre playing Carrier Pigeon Whispers, relying on a conveyed message from D&D from GRRM. Did GRRM say Stannis burns her or did he say she is burnt? Two very different things. Yes she will burn. But she wont burn because Stannis has ordered it. Stannis is leagues away, caught in a blizzard. Possibly dead at very least cut off from all communication. How is he going to order the burning of his daughter? If it happens this way, its slopping writing from George and I will stand by my criticism in the unlikely event it does happen this way. But she wont be burned BY Stannis.

Book readers have thought that Shireen dies so Melisandre can rectify the events of "For the Watch". Many suspect that, that will take place next episode.

I wonder how the show watchers will feel if that is the case.

Edited by Misnthropia

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The only I remember seeing him that was of note was the movie Spy Game with Robert Redford and Brad Pitt. I thought it was a pretty decent movie... and he plays a d*ck in that movie, too.

He was Thomas Jefferson on the HBO miniseries John Adams...and he was great.

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Exactly.

What was the point of selling the rights to books you havent even finished? When you know it takes you a long time to complete just one of them and you had two (or more!) to go?

I don't know, and this is only a rough guess, but the answer to your question is probably:

* HBO offered GRRM money

* GRRM likes money

Should not take someone with a degree in nuclear physics to point that out.

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read the books. stannis never burnt nobody because worshipping other gods. ever.

you are not even getting the castle right.

If you are able to keep all the castles straight, then you are more fanatical than me. My only point is that Book Stannis has burned a lot of people. I don't even think that is up for debate.

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Nope. I said the same thing after the second Unsullied got whacked...

BTW, A couple of points:

Stannis didn't burn Shireen just so he could take WF. Davos clearly told him that they didn't have enough food left to return to CB, once Ramsay and Seal Team Six pulled off their mission.

The snow was too deep to go forward and they couldn't go back. They were basically facing a death sentence, which meant no rightful king on the IT, and a free pass for the WW to take over the south.

Debate if you will whether book Stannis would have burned his daughter to escape a desperate situation, but it wasn't "just so he could take Winterfell". There were much bigger fish to fry.

Also, it's getting a bit tiresome reading the scores of "I'm never watching again!" and "That's it! I'm done!" after every episode. (except apparently, Hardhome) If D & D's adaptation honestly angers you that much, just stop watching.

Please.

I think Stannis sent Davos away knowing what he was going to do, so he didn't have to hear Davos second guess him. I'm pretty sure Castle Black doesn't have the food resources to feed Stannis' army on whim (it being winter and all) - and willing to bet Stannis knows this... but hopes Davos will be creative and find something else (like an onion farmer with a cellar full of onions, or something).

On your point about the "i'm done watching" posts... I completely agree. I think the show went waaaaaay past the bounds of tastefulness showing a littel girl getting burned alive (its been pretty dicey in the past - but I chalk that up to a display of decadence). I'm pretty sure there could have been better ways to be less viceral whilst still getting all the pathos and what-not across.

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But burning "Rickon" and "Bran" was fine? Sure we didnt hear the screams but we did see the charred bodies hoisted up on display.


Edited by Misnthropia

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