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[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

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I'm sure that we're being led to Brienne killing Stannis, and everyone will not only now accept it, but actually like it.

In my opinion its just poor writing....

EDIT: just because doesn't make any sense the way D&D placed the sacrifice.... and so many scenes on this season (Littlefinger just hand over Sansa to the Boltons; the Bolton actually marry her to the family; etc)

1 year of siege in Storm's End and he resisted..... 1 day (tops) without food and he succumbs to sacrifice his own daughter.... on the books he refuses to sacrifice Asha or any unbeliever for this....

"Half my army is made of unbelievers. No more burnings. Pray harder"

Edited by Tyu-Chuck

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I dont think theyre leading to a Brienne killing. I mean apart from the feel good "You kill Renly YYARRRGHHH" scene theres no furtherment to the story there.



Surely theres a payoff here and I think its it Littlefinger. We think that Littlefinger is going to come in with the Vale and mop up whos left after Stannis v Bolton.



Littlefinger is a rat but hes better liked than Bolton and now Stannis.


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I bet the people who keep saying they have less than ten hours for the whole season are the same who were hurling insults a few episodes back because how could we possibly know the whole MissWorm thing wasn't leading anywhere. Guess what, it wasn't. Nice management of the time THEY decided to bind themselves to when the network was ready to shower them with money for at least 10 seasons huh?

The pile of garbage is towering miles high at this point but the gapers keep dismissing every separate speck as a meaningless point of detail. Because hey, we get to cry at the reunion of a wooden mannequin and a videogame lizard so it was all worth it.

Not every thread HAS to go anywhere. Life doesnt work like that, i dont understand people who think that it has to. Apart from anything else we still dont know that it wont. Same with Gendry, he may return, he may not, he doesnt actually have to. TV is not a book, different media, different rules. So far the show has been very good at making little, semingly unimportant or dead end moments quite relevant in the long term.

'The pile of garbage is towering miles high at this point but the gapers keep dismissing every separate speck as a meaningless point of detail.' Actually the haters are ones failing to see the detail.

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In my opinion its just poor writing....

EDIT: just because doesn't make any sense the way D&D placed the sacrifice.... and so many scenes on this season (Littlefinger just hand over Sansa to the Boltons; the Bolton actually marry her to the family; etc)

1 year of siege in Storm's End and he resisted..... 1 day (tops) without food and he succumbs to sacrifice his own daughter.... on the books he refuses to sacrifice Asha or any unbeliever for this....

"Half my army is made of unbelievers. No more burnings. Pray harder"

Storm's End had water, shelter and mild temperatures.

Some not so fun facts about winter survival:

You can live 3 minutes without air, though we don't recommend trying. In a harsh environment — it's snowing, say — you have 3 hours to survive without shelter. After 3 days, you need water or you'll perish. You can make it 3 weeks without food, though we promise you that won't be fun.

The link is here: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-days-can-you-survive-without-water-2014-5

The key is hydration. You need to start a fire to melt the snow/ice and drink about 8 cups a day to be fully hydrated, especially when trudging through snow.

Being that Stannis' men had no experience travelling in northern Westeros winter conditions, many were most likely already suffering from mild hypothermia; meaning they were already lethargic and unable to think clearly (i.e., defend themselves).

Edited by roxWolfox 🍁

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Really? Stannis wins and he is in need of an heir, every noble house is going to being throwing their daughters in front of him. Sure, he is a man that could do anything he sees necessary, so what, nobles are quite ready to sell their daughters (and sons for that matter) for political gain. The daughter could get killed but she might bare the next kin that would be their nephew. Reward would be quite worth the risk.

He's proven that he kills children, even if they're his. If he does that to a new heir, the daughter's family will gain nothing.

I'm sure that he wouldn't have a problem finding a wife if he became king. For the most part, a king is exempt from the law and tradition. I was really thinking along the lines of if he loses the war and is pardoned, and allowed to go back to Dragonstone / Storm's End. He'll be a normal lord then. No one is going to want to deal with him. He is a kinslayer, a huge taboo in Westeros. He will be dishonored forever. Or at least, he should be. It's similar to the Freys. They broke guest right, so now they're disgraced and have no honor.

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Jesus christ with the lectures on cold weather survival.

The fact that you can come up with a rationalization has no bearing on the quality of the writing. Even in the rare cases where said rationalization isn't utter bullshit itself.

The audience is not supposed to bend over backwards to make sense of the events in the story. We are NOT shown soldiers dropping like flies, deserting in droves, rebelling against their officers etc. We are shown terrible actresses playing slappy slappy. We are not shown Stannis qgonizing over a hard decision. We are not even shown any of the main actors looking anything but perfectly healthy.

Same applies to "Bolton succeeds beyond any reasonable expectations because Mel helped". That is very plausible but we are not GIVEN any reason to believe it at all.

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Jesus christ with the lectures on cold weather survival.

The fact that you can come up with a rationalization has no bearing on the quality of the writing. Even in the rare cases where said rationalization isn't utter bullshit itself.

The audience is not supposed to bend over backwards to make sense of the events in the story. We are NOT shown soldiers dropping like flies, deserting in droves, rebelling against their officers etc. We are shown terrible actresses playing slappy slappy. We are not shown Stannis qgonizing over a hard decision. We are not even shown any of the main actors looking anything but perfectly healthy.

Same applies to "Bolton succeeds beyond any reasonable expectations because Mel helped". That is very plausible but we are not GIVEN any reason to believe it at all.

The fact that I am the only one who knows about what cold weather can do to a person on this board is mystifying, sure, but I do not watch Dark Fantasy shows/movies for the writing, especially GrimDark Fantasy. At this moment the ASoIaF books are sitting on my coffee table right in front of me. The reason I'm scrolling through the site and not reading them? They don't entertain me as much as this site does.

I watch the show for the acting and the special effects. Stuff that does entertain me. You've made it quite clear that the show doesn't entertain you.

What reason do you have for watching the show (that is getting everything wrong) if the books are available to give you everything you want in a story? I give zero f***s for the showrunners, and I give zero f***s for Mr. Martin. I just happen to love many of the actors, and started watching the show because I'm a fan of their various works (the actors that is).

Just curious, not being snarky.

Edited by roxWolfox 🍁

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George has recently posted this on his blog:





Yes, I know that THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER named me "the third most powerful writer in Hollywood" last December. You would be surprised at how little that means. I cannot control what anyone else says or does, or make them stop saying or doing it, be it on the fannish or professional fronts. What I can control is what happens in my books, so I am going to return to that chapter I've been writing on THE WINDS OF WINTER now, thank you very much.




Do you think he's hinting he might do the Shireen thing differently in the books? He does seem to be having a go at D(umb)&D(umber).


Edited by Rhoynar

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The fact that I am the only one who knows about what cold weather can do to a person on this board is mystifying, sure, but I do not watch Dark Fantasy shows/movies for the writing, especially GrimDark Fantasy. At this moment the ASoIaF books are sitting on my coffee table right in front of me. The reason I'm scrolling through the site and not reading them? They don't entertain me as much as this site does.

I watch the show for the acting and the special effects. Stuff that does entertain me. You've made it quite clear that the show doesn't entertain you.

What reason do you have for watching the show (that is getting everything wrong) if the books are available to give you everything you want in a story? I give zero f***s for the showrunners, and I give zero f***s for Mr. Martin. I just happen to love many of the actors, and started watching the show because I'm a fan of their various works (the actors that is).

Just curious, not being snarky.

The show does entertain me. I watch The Walking Dead lol. I'm a huge dork, I'd probably watch anything with dragons and zombies in it tbh.

Thing is, I'm not on the TWD forum discussing the soundness of the plot. I'm only here because I joined the books forum, and I wouldn't think commenting on mindless entertainment was worth my time if it didn't happen to be a hilariously bad adaptation of books that were worth adapting well.

Edited by Facebookless Man

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The show does entertain me. I watch The Walking Dead lol. I'm a huge dork, I'd probably watch anything with dragons and zombies in it tbh.

Thing is, I'm not on the TWD forum discussing the soundness of the plot. I'm only here because I joined the books forum, and I wouldn't think commenting on mindless entertainment was worth my time if it didn't happen to be a hilariously bad adaptation of books that were worth adapting well.

Ah, I understand. I'm from the 60s and 70s comic book boom (and a rare girl nerd from that era). I can't remember how many times I wanted to rage when I was convinced to go see a movie that destroyed my fave comic book heroes. Same with tv shows about comic book characters. But I don't go to the DC or Marvel et al forums to discuss the problems, because I'm way too old (mid 50s now) for anyone to take me seriously.

Hell, I'm geeked about Jurassic World, and I already know it will suck big time. It is about having fun in the end, I guess.

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George has recently posted this on his blog:

Do you think he's hinting he might do the Shireen thing differently in the books? He does seem to be having a go at D(umb)&D(umber).

I'm definitely of that opinion. GRRM sets things up well, unlike D&D.

The show does entertain me. I watch The Walking Dead lol. I'm a huge dork, I'd probably watch anything with dragons and zombies in it tbh.

Thing is, I'm not on the TWD forum discussing the soundness of the plot. I'm only here because I joined the books forum, and I wouldn't think commenting on mindless entertainment was worth my time if it didn't happen to be a hilariously bad adaptation of books that were worth adapting well.

Me too, me too.

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People who are complaining about the cold not being a motivating factor to sacrifice his daughter have obviously not lived in a snow filled winter.



When it is zero degrees and there are 2 feet of snow on the ground.... it hurts to be outside in just a minute....


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Storm's End had water, shelter and mild temperatures.

Some not so fun facts about winter survival:

You can live 3 minutes without air, though we don't recommend trying. In a harsh environment — it's snowing, say — you have 3 hours to survive without shelter. After 3 days, you need water or you'll perish. You can make it 3 weeks without food, though we promise you that won't be fun.

The link is here: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-days-can-you-survive-without-water-2014-5

The key is hydration. You need to start a fire to melt the snow/ice and drink about 8 cups a day to be fully hydrated, especially when trudging through snow.

Being that Stannis' men had no experience travelling in northern Westeros winter conditions, many were most likely already suffering from mild hypothermia; meaning they were already lethargic and unable to think clearly (i.e., defend themselves).

OMG! Those poor people trying to stay hydrated as they march through piles and piles of snow!! Whatever shall they do, amidst all those snowdrifts, to get some life-giving water! How can they keep walking with literally millions of snowflakes falling into their faces and melting on their skin... and their lips.... and their tongues.....!!!!!

Jesus christ with the lectures on cold weather survival.

The fact that you can come up with a rationalization has no bearing on the quality of the writing. Even in the rare cases where said rationalization isn't utter bullshit itself.

The audience is not supposed to bend over backwards to make sense of the events in the story. We are NOT shown soldiers dropping like flies, deserting in droves, rebelling against their officers etc. We are shown terrible actresses playing slappy slappy. We are not shown Stannis qgonizing over a hard decision. We are not even shown any of the main actors looking anything but perfectly healthy.

Same applies to "Bolton succeeds beyond any reasonable expectations because Mel helped". That is very plausible but we are not GIVEN any reason to believe it at all.

Finally! Some common sense. Thank you.

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OMG! Those poor people trying to stay hydrated as they march through piles and piles of snow!! Whatever shall they do, amidst all those snowdrifts, to get some life-giving water! How can they keep walking with literally millions of snowflakes falling into their faces and melting on their skin... and their lips.... and their tongues.....!!!!!

Finally! Some common sense. Thank you.

Water is the least of worries in huge snowstorms. When power goes out for a week when a blizzard hits, people have a hard enough time in their houses which drop to 40 degrees....

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OMG! Those poor people trying to stay hydrated as they march through piles and piles of snow!! Whatever shall they do, amidst all those snowdrifts, to get some life-giving water! How can they keep walking with literally millions of snowflakes falling into their faces and melting on their skin... and their lips.... and their tongues.....!!!!!

:rofl: :lmao:

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If you factor in the soldiers on guard being hungry, tired, and freezing, it is totally feasible for a small group of men to get into the camp. If they are spread out in groups of two around the whole perimeter, then it really wouldn't be hard, especially with the snow hindering eyesight. As an example, during the Battle of the Bulge, there were instances of German soldiers accidentally wandered undetected during the night past the Allied lines and had no clue they had done so until being captured due to the inclement weather. So it could realistically be done.

Now all the fires lighting up at once, I got no answer :dunno:

I mentioned this earlier....I think that maybe Mel had a hand in those fires springing up all over the camp. Yes, Seal Team Bolton did most of the legwork, but I think that Red Mel saw the whole thing in her flames and gave the fires a bit of a R'Hollor nudge...

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Storm's End had water, shelter and mild temperatures.

Some not so fun facts about winter survival:

You can live 3 minutes without air, though we don't recommend trying. In a harsh environment — it's snowing, say — you have 3 hours to survive without shelter. After 3 days, you need water or you'll perish. You can make it 3 weeks without food, though we promise you that won't be fun.

The link is here: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-days-can-you-survive-without-water-2014-5

The key is hydration. You need to start a fire to melt the snow/ice and drink about 8 cups a day to be fully hydrated, especially when trudging through snow.

Being that Stannis' men had no experience travelling in northern Westeros winter conditions, many were most likely already suffering from mild hypothermia; meaning they were already lethargic and unable to think clearly (i.e., defend themselves).

Ok, you definitely knows cold..... you live it, I know, you have more experience than I and know it more than I.... but it doesn't mean that others won't..... otherwise this discussion is futile....... its like "i know more than you all so no one can discuss with me"

and I know that his situation is dire, very dire.... but in the books when he is faced with the same decision, he refused to make ANY sacrifice.....

He was with a full army of mounted knights at Deepwood Motte.... about half of his army of mounted knights..... now he has something like 800 or maybe less.... Ramsay never destroyed his supplies..... even so his knights asked for a sacrifice of an unbeliever and he just answered "Half my army is made of unbelievers. No more burnings. Pray harder"

And just remember, Asha is with them..... she is an unbeliever with kingsblood.... and still he refused to do it.....

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And just remember, Asha is with them..... she is an unbeliever with kingsblood.... and still he refused to do it.....

And an unbeliever with kingsblood that his Northern forces would probably cheer if she burned after what the Greyjoys did.

Edited by A_Cornered_Wolf

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