[Poll] How would you rate episode 509?

[Woofless]

It did have some good moments, but the completely unexplained appearance of Jon and the Wildlings at Castle Black while still NORTH of the Wall is still bugging me.

Agreed. I dropped the episode one point because of that.

[Spilt Pea Soup]

8/10

Awesome episode.

Wall--good.

Dorne--entertaining and not awful. Glad it's nearly over.

Arya--can't wait to see Trant get it next week. Nice set up.

Stannis--extremely well acted and well done. Very touching. All you Stannis fans have really put your chips on the wrong player, and GRRM is about to troll you hard. There are no good guys I this world. And he's been an @sshole since we first met him, killing his brother, cavorting with a blood magess, and burning people alive. Good riddance to be Stannis fans.

Mereen--amazing. Better than the books. Jorah was amazing. Tyron sparred with Hizradh and then kicked ass to save Missandei. Dragon riding was just awe inspiring.

Looking forward to next season when D&D aren't saddled with trying to save such dreadful source material and can fly free to a satisfying conclusion.

[Spilt Pea Soup]

Nobody cares at all about Jon being north of the wall. It made better TV, and therefore worked. My unsullied husband barely knows where Bravos is, so please just drop it. It was a cool moment and made you wonder whether they would be let through. It worked. Get over it.

[abacabb]

The best part of the show and the only "justification" in Westeros that I can remember was when Locke chopped of Jamies hand. Since then he's just that insignificant 1 handed guy.

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

I give it an 8. Dorne was lame as usual and i'm still shocked about what Stannis did, but the last 10 min was epic.

[kephv]

It made better TV, and therefore worked.

Don't be so sure about that. The number of unsullied that have complained about that slight leap of logic is proof enough.

Though maybe they'll say something next week that clears it up.

[BearQueen87]

Honestly, this episode was just weak and it's not just because I'm comparing it to last weeks greatness. My list of complaints are many. Some of them are because I've been a book reader for so long; and some are because this was just straight up bad TV in a lot of ways. Overall rating: 7 most for costume, set, and Meereen (aka: Jorah and Dany held hands---I'm going to ignore grayscale since the writers only care about Jorah having it when they want to make him Sad! Bear. Because this is the second or third time he's touched someone with no consequence)

LIKED

--The BFFness that is Davos and Shireen. 'Tis a lovely thing. And now it's burned and dead.

--I do love the outdoor shots of Braavos.

--Mace Tyrell randomly bursts into song. Well, points for surprise?

--Bored Tyrion is excellent.

--I have a lot of feelings about Jorah Mormont. My bear. My good sweet bear. And Dany's face watching the man who is basically her best friend about to die for her. Ugh. Right in the heart. SHE TOOK HIS HAND (he has greyscale??) BUT SHE TOOK HIS HAND AND I AM NOT OKAY.

--Dany closes her eyes. Drogon appears. "Mommy! I will save YOOOOOOOU"

MIXED

--Jesus emcee? Sure! Cause I can't figure out on my own that two men are going to fight to the death. But I couldn't stop laughing at how Jesus-y he looked.

--Dragon's first flight: OK LOOK. This is not okay with me. Why does Daenerys Targaryen hop onto Drogon's back? Because he is FIRE MADE FLESH and SO IS SHE! Because she rips off her tokar, her floppy ears, looks into her dragon's eye and *decides* that she is a dragon. She has chained and strangled her inner dragon all through ADWD and her hopping on Drogon's back is a loud proud declaration that she is Daenerys Targaryen and she is NOT a Harpy but The Mother of Dragons. So NO. It is not this silly "damsel in distress" thing they got going on here as the Sons swarm around her and there is no other recourse. My Queen is better than that! The show hasn't even tried to show how much struggle Dany really had ruling Meereen, how conflicted she was all the time. They never explored the psychological effects of chaining her dragons and how it wasn't just a literal but a metaphorical chaining as well. Nope, they had her randomly feeding men to her dragons instead of almost being scared to go see them. BUT....BUT. It was still Dany's first flight and I've waited 5 years for this moment. So....I take it with a lot of cringing. Also....so....Dany just leaves Jorah, Tyrion, Melisendre, and Daario just there with a bunch of Sons of the Harpy? Rlly?

DISLIKED

--Stannis and Shireen, OBVIOUSLY. Ok, I admit, rather freely, that Shireen is going to be burned in the books. Mel will probably burn her to bring back Jon. That's fine; that's the path GRRM has chosen. However this nonsense was just that...nonsense. So 4 episodes ago Stannis gave the most passionate speech I think we've ever heard from him about how Shireen is his child, two weeks ago he sent Mel away for even suggesting that they hurt Shireen. And then this week...yeah, let's burn her? No. It doesn't make narrative sense for Stannis to go from point A to point Z without a layover in point B-Y. How did he get to that emotional point? HOW?! Just because of the lack of food? Cause in ADWD, they are at that point and know what Stannis says: "pray harder." Those he burns are traitors or his enemies, not his own men and not his own family. If Stannis were to arrive back to Castle Black (where Mel and Shireen are in the books) it would be just right after Mel sets Shireen ablaze. That's Stannis's tragedy. He's also just off by a bit. And then to have it be Selyese, who all season has been Queen Burn-All-The-Things be the one to suddenly turn into the considerate parent who doesn't want her daughter burned? Nope. And the topper here are D and D who after the show said that this was handed down from GRRM--which doesn't make sense given what we know about TWOW thus far and Theon's spoil chapter. Isn't Stannis telling his men to die trying to put Shireen on the Iron Throne?! So how is this not just pure fan fiction for the sake of shock value?!

--Dorne. What. The. Fuck. Dorne. What is this mess? There was no point in Dorne this season. They should have just sent Jaime to the Riverlands to tangle with the Blackfish and not this mess. Alexander Siddig is so underused it's appalling. So Doran, who in the books has this huge "Fire and Blood" plan, not only gives up his Lannister hostage, but also sends HIS ONLY SON TO BE A HOSTAGE TO THE LANNISTERS IN KING'S LANDING?! And yes, let's put a 15 years old on the Small Council. GREAT PLAN. Such good plans!

--And suddenly Ellaria is all regretful about her revenge? WHY?! How did she get to that point? I know she's supposed to Arianne-stand-in but Arianne had a really loooooooong chapter that painstakingly detailed how she went from a princess bent on securing the IT for Myrcella to being repentant and lonely and remorseful. It comes down to "show don't tell" on this front. From the acting to the costuming to the horrible fight scenes to the cheesy dialogue, Dorne has been an absolute mess. I feel the overwhelming need to go read AFFC to burn this version of Dorne from my mind.

--Olly is trying to burn Jon Snow with the power of his MIIIIIIIND. *rolls eyes* Honestly, the reason why the "for the the watch" moment is so powerful is because it's not some scared little kid leading the attack but seasoned men who are hardnosed and refuse to do anything new, refuse to budge to what is best for the realm, preferring what is best for them and their traditions.

--Why was this episode called "The Dance of Dragons..."??? Yes there were one or two mentions of it but other than that....?

--So Ser Meryn likes young girls because...? Look, I don't need a reason to hate this guy in order to applaud Arya when she kills him. I know she's going to kill him and I'm already fine with it because killing him--without the creepy pedo vibe--is totally in character for Arya Stark. Meryn has been on her list for a long time. She kills people on her list and is becoming very good at it. Arya doesn't need any sort of extra motivation. Her trailing Meryn and giving him the evil eye was enough.

[yanmaodao]

I'm giving this episode a provisional 8, under the belief that (1) Shireen burns in the books, and that (2) Stannis is significantly responsible. I don't think (1) is much in doubt but if (2) isn't true then in retrospect this will drop by a lot.

It's sad, because each of the buildup scenes individually was good. I knew what was coming but hoped against hope that someone would come at the last moment and save Shireen, and was on the edge of my seat. The actors were just as good in the slower episodes earlier this season, but too many scenes were lifeless because they had no actual stakes; this did, and the difference was night and day. It's a real pity what was lying at the other end of those stakes, though. (A literal stake.)

For the first time, I enjoyed the Dorne scenes, but I'm puzzled by how much a shaggy dog story it all turned out to be. Put six named characters in a room each with their own agenda, is an easy and reliable way to give a scene heft, and the dining room scene was probably my favorite in Dorne so far. Sand Snakes are who they are, and they're a lot better when portrayed lightheartedly and with their immaturity emphasized, than when we're supposed to think that they're badasses. I still think a Sand Snake will kill Tommen in the end, so they have some room to grow. Obligatory Ellaria de-villainization scene in the end.

But what was the point? I doubt we'll re-visit Dorne in episode 10. Was it all an excuse just to shoot in Spain? Dorne could have easily been subsumed under King's Landing. Just have the necessary Dorne characters show up at King's Landing from the beginning, including the Sand Snakes, if they truly have a role to play in the future that must be kept. Instead, make White Harbor a unique location, send Sansa there instead, and have her join forces with Manderly.

I will say that at the very least it's nice that Dorne was at least kept light-hearted, save for that one epic battle that wasn't back in episode 6.

Given how much of a gallop every other storyline has been, the pace of Arya's has been frustrating. Just kill Trant already, we all know it's going to happen.

Meereen was what I expected it to be, no more and no less. I wish there was a declaration by Dany to her advisors that when she gets back, they're hightailing it to Westeros, if only for the show-only watchers' sake, because the Meereen quagmire has got to be getting tiresome for them.

There's no question now that season 5 will end up the worst in my estimation, though I still enjoy the show. The only chance it had was for the episodes starting from 7 to be all balls to the wall, to make up for the drudgiest first half of a season yet, but this episode nine I found solid but unspectacular. Just get to the endgame already because the whole season has been mostly spinning its wheels.

Edited June 8, 2015 by yanmaodao

[ummester]

8 - they all seem to be 7-8 this season - every episode has shit mixed with the good stuff.

Good

The scene with Shireen was the single best scene all season for me. The way it played out was surprising and dramatic - and it had me more emotionally gripped then any scene other than perhaps the Sansa bedding.

Daario and Hizdar talking was also kind of cool.

Dorne finally made sense and was enjoyable to watch.

Bad

Tyrion is becoming more and more of a goody two shoes fuckhead, sorry, I'm totally over him. It's obvious why they killed Selmy now - to give Tyrion something heroic to do, but it just seems forced and stupid - the guy strangled a woman last season, he shouldn't get off so easy. I'm actually more angry over Tyrion becoming the righteous shit he is in show, then I disliked what he became in book. At least in book felt logical and didn't feel like favoritism. Hope the horrid character meets a nasty end.

Dany proved to be a fool - if she didn't have dragons, the world would gobble her up. Drogon looked stupid again.

Arya must be the most ridiculous spy/assassin ever.

General nitpick.

CG VFX have been consistently sub-par for me this season, even though production values are generally excellent for sets etc, they need to employ a better VFX studio. Wun Wun now seems to have shrunk back to normal giant size. 1 of the bodies Drogo threw around looked ok, the others again lacked weight and looked stupid.

Edited June 8, 2015 by ummester

[Hour of the Wolf]

I gave it a 3.

I won't touch on the major elements to the episode as it has been well covered already.

I will say that Dorne continues to be awful. What was the point of the jail cell scene? We sacrificed Jaime's plot line from AFFC for this?

Is Arya just going to poison some seafood to kill the insurance guy? How is that training to be some great assassin? In fact her whole scene dragged on for ever. It had no pay off either.

The Wall was a waste of time, was the whole thing just to have Olly scowl at Jon once more? I get it hes dislikes this decision.

[Ser Redjed]

3.

What a train wreck.

[Nights Kings Queen]

One last problem I have.

"Oh you f**k your sister? Well we're dornish and we like sex and we play into a complete stereotype the writers have made for us and we screw everyone so go on ahead. FREE LOVE!".

A reason why I have it a four.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

I'm sorry but some of you must have been watching a different episode, that was an unqualified 10. For poor little Shireen alone that was one of the best episodes they've ever done, and for all you doubters, that's coming in the books I guarantee you.

[Nights Kings Queen]

I'm sorry but some of you must have been watching a different episode, that was an unqualified 10. For poor little Shireen alone that was one of the best episodes they've ever done, and for all you doubters, that's coming in the books I guarantee you.

No one (i hope) is doubting it but it will be far more complicated than "we've got no food and there's a blizzard, honey come here for a second and give daddy a little help." Edited June 8, 2015 by Nights Kings Consort

[Neds Secret]

Drogon not only saved Daenerys but the episode itself. I do not understand Stannis being depicted the way he has been, it was completely out of character for both book and show Stannis to suddenly burn his only child. Jaime is unrecognisable to me, not because he now has a conscience that is part of his arc but because show Jaime has had his balls cut off, he has no backbone anymore. However Drogon swooping down to save Daenerys was awesome, I had tears in my eyes it was so moving to me. The only concern I had with it is that Drogon seemed to me as if he had shrunk a little from previous episodes and I thought his scales would deflect Spears better than that, I think he has to grow and toughen a little before he could oppose and intimidate the others!

[Hour of the Wolf]

I gave it an 8 . The one thing that made me roll my eyes was the accurate count of just how many men got into stannis's camp and set fire to the tents in the pitch black of darkness...20 men was it hmmm where did we hear that number before oh right Ramsay requested that exact number of men in the last episode.They have to make everything so bloody obvious and the dialogue goes along those lines too.This season has been so bad that I have to give this episode an 8 to reflect just how bad the other episodes were.The sad fact is they are probably half way through filming dopey changes and pointless filler for the next season already. The fighting pit scene was bizare at times but some elements of it were enjoyable ie Jorah throwing the spear to save Daenerys but the whole business of the harpies not really putting in any effort to kill Dany once they surrounded her was very unrealistic (yes putting aside the fact dragons don't exist).Jorah carelessly grabbing Dany's hand knowing he has grayscale, I've noticed that a lot of the scenes since they diverged from the books in season 4 have been very repetitive litterally nothing happens over the span of say four episodes at a time except the occassional minor character like Janos Slynt losing their head it's not as if it can fall back on its incredible dialogue and well rounded realistic characters because D&D simply aren't up to Georges standard. at this rate I can honestly see this show being cancelled before the final series.

I think your opinion of the episode and your rating should be introduced to each other.

[Spilt Pea Soup]

Or he should just give up the critique game, because HBO canceling this show is ridiculous.

[Nictarion]

Gave it a 9. Almost entirely for Daznak's Pit.

[KingJeremyPeterman]

Can we all agree that Hardhome counted as "Episode 9" for this season? But other than that, pretty well done. I thought Stannis would be the one to crack, not Selyse. The Sons of the Harpy battle felt too chaotic, and Dany kept grabbing hands. I loved all the scenes with Shireen (minus the one where she gets burned). Overall a 6 because Shireen's death brought it down but Daenerys and Tyrion once again brought this back from a cringe-worthy hour of television. (And jesus, isn't there an age of consent, Meryn Trant?)

[Hour of the Wolf]

Really enjoyed this episode. Gave it an 8. Status quo on the boards as usual it seems. Bookbabies hate what they see. Give it 2/10. Claim they're done with the show. Will be back next week, and for next season.

In other words...

https://youtu.be/gzdWPwVTWsI?t=59s

I take it that you are not a "book baby"

Do you actually find the Dorne story line entertaining? Was Arya's lengthy scene really interesting? Did Jon arriving on foot at the middle of The Wall make any sense?

Hard to give an episode an 8 when 50 percent of it was wasted. That's just math.