[Poll] How would you rate episode 509?

[#teamNightking]

5. My concern for this series is the writing appears to be getting more and more lazy, with little explanation for how or why plot points came to be, even when (or especially when) they don't make sense or don't seem likely.

At the same time the writing it is based on is anything but lazy, creating such a stark contrast. (No pun intended)

In particular in this episode, if there was reason for arriving on the north side of the wall, as in Jon didn't want wildings running amok on the way to castle black, a little dialogue goes a long way to explain that.

Disappointed in Arya being the most obvious assassin ever and I thought the pit scene was underwhelming. Why so few unsullied were there for security? They had better things to do? Not nearly enough!

I hope a lot of the unanswered questions are addressed next week like what happens to the queen's advisors and is jorah just an idiot to touch dany or want to intentionally give her gray scale? Or maybe targs are immune but would he just take that chance? Just like with the Hardhome battle it is the small things (like not rowing for your life back to the ships) that baffle me as to lack of attention to detail.

And dorne is just a total waste of scene time.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

This is one of those "you chose to get your knickers in a bunch over THAT? Over geography?" If you're going at that, here's a bigger plothole for you, if you can easily get to the south side of the wall by the sea, why were the wildlings so stupid to climb across the wall for all those centuries? Why did they attack a giant block of ice in the middle of nowhere when they could have just built some rafts and merrily paddle across to where there's no wall or, dunno, learn boatbuiding? Ancient Egyptians knew how to build boats, I am pretty sure even Sumerians knew a bit of boat building. It's not like they lacked wood with all the fences they've put up.

In 8000 years NOBODY figured that out?

Nice of you to notice this point. Very clever.

If only GRRM hadn't established this as the very reason the Shadow Tower and Eastwatch were still manned - and why the women of Bear Island spent the centuries since the Starks settled them there *fighting off the attacks fro the sea from the Iron Born and the Wildlings*.

Nice try though.

[jacksonbrowne]

5. My concern for this series is the writing appears to be getting more and more lazy, with little explanation for how or why plot points came to be, even when (or especially when) they don't make sense or don't seem likely.

At the same time the writing it is based on is anything but lazy, creating such a stark contrast. (No pun intended)

In particular in this episode, if there was reason for arriving on the north side of the wall, as in Jon didn't want wildings running amok on the way to castle black, a little dialogue goes a long way to explain that.

Disappointed in Arya being the most obvious assassin ever and I thought the pit scene was underwhelming. Why so few unsullied were there for security? They had better things to do? Not nearly enough!

I hope a lot of the unanswered questions are addressed next week like what happens to the queen's advisors and is jorah just an idiot to touch dany or want to intentionally give her gray scale? Or maybe targs are immune but would he just take that chance? Just like with the Hardhome battle it is the small things (like not rowing for your life back to the ships) that baffle me as to lack of attention to detail.

And dorne is just a total waste of scene time.

If they can simply sail south of wall with a bunch of boats then the world, Westeros, and GRRM are utter idiots for having the wildlings sit en masse north of the wall for freaking 8000 years and headbutting the wall all that time. The WORLD only makes sense if you only get south of the wall THROUGH the wall.

[SerDoublePost]

Stannis burning Shireen, what the hell? After their wonderful scene earlier this season that pretty much symbolized the opposite of what just happened.

If Stannis was not emotionally close to Shireen then him sacrificing her would not be a real conflict. For the sacrifice to mean something (in the eyes of R'hllor and the viewers) Stannis had to love his daughter, the earlier scene was needed to demonstrate that.

Good job D&D!

[jacksonbrowne]

If Stannis was not emotionally close to Shireen then him sacrificing her would not be a real conflict. For the sacrifice to mean something (in the eyes of R'hllor and the viewers) Stannis had to love his daughter, the earlier scene was needed to demonstrate that.

Good job D&D!

This.

Edit: of course, I don't think there IS Rhllor. Melisandre has all but suggested that there is no magic and she gives potions and fumes for her "patients" to inhale to make them see whatever the hell she wants them to see.

That and people skills and the ability to read people. That's her game.

Edited June 8, 2015 by jacksonbrowne

[protar]

I agree with you on the pale mare and war with other cities. Does the show ever mention that the attacks stopped? If yes, I must have missed it, because to me the Harpies we're still a big topic. I mean they were basically the reason why Dany thought she has to "integrate" into Meereenese culture more, marry a noble guy and open the fightings pits...

So maybe in the show she had a short breather, but to me if was just a question of time until the Harpies would strike again.

They specifically mention that the attacks have stopped yes. So basically by the time Tyrion ends up in Meereen, Dany has achieved peace. So this is basically just random action.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I gave it a 6. Definitely a step backwards from Episodes 7 and 8 and easily the worst episode 9 to date.

- Dorne is still problematic and mostly a waste of time.

- Ramsey's ambush was like the laziest thing I've ever seen on this show and also completely beyond logical belief.

- Daario taunting Hizdahr and Dany playing along with it was ridiculous. He might be your future husband for politidal reasons only but you don't publicly taunt him to your lover...So amateur of the writers there. Also Tyrion saving Missandei was too corny for me

- I'm not sure Meryn Trant really needed to be a pedophile on top of everything else he's done, so I would've liked the scene to be more about Arya than him.

Edited June 8, 2015 by DarkAndFullOfTurnips

[The King Of Cooked Steak]

Did you give the red wedding a 5?

The 6 was given because of Dorne, the lackluster Braavos we got this week, and yes, Stannis allowing Shireen to be burned alive. It wasn't the event itself that brought the grade down, it's actually one of the most well acted scenes the show has to offer and is extremely horrifying and moving, very much like the RW. Though, it was more the misguided characterization of Stannis. Stannis' development leading to this decision was extremely lackluster and out of character from what we've seen these past few episodes.

Edited June 8, 2015 by The King Of Cooked Steak

[Alayne Stone]

I gave a 1 for several reasons, some of which include the following:

1. How does Stannis not know what the Dance of the Dragons was?

He knew the story of the two Targaryans, but not by its poetic name. Likely because he heard the information and discarded it as ridiculous, as Stannis is apt to do.

2. How did Davos correctly guess the number of men who burnt their supplies? How did the supplies burn so quickly...with all that snow?

By looking at the number of tents and timing, not to mention that they wanted to use him to tie it to Ramsay for the watchers because not everyone is as smart as you. On the latter, why do cars explode when they fall off cliffs? "Hollywood."

3. Why does Mace Tyrell not have a teleportation machine like Tyrion, LF, Jon and the wildlings, and Stannis?

Like the books, the regional storylines don't happen in concurrent or consistent chronologies.

4. Why did the Sons of the Harpy just kill everyone, even Hizdhar?

Good question. Presumably to make everyone afraid and destabilize her reign. They're ISIS, not Robin Hood.

5. After everything he learnt, why is Jon going back to complaining about how no one likes him, without relaying the new information (especially about Valyrian steel) to anyone?

Because it's repetitive and viewers complain about repetition, while the 'no one likes him' thing is probably a plot point next week. Sigh. :(

6. Why were the Sand Snakes slapping each other?

I have no idea but it was funny.

7. Why is Ellaria okay with the incest? And why is her character so inconsistent...in one episode?

Because she's Ellaria Sand. And presumably either because Doran scared the shit out of her or she's trying to make nice with Jaime for a longer game.

8. Why is Doran giving his only heir to the Lannisters?

Because he's a broken, defeated king and he wants peace. This is an overture that could secure it.

9. Why is Bronn being punched, why is Jaime still in Dorne, why are the Sand Snakes so devoid of personalities that go beyond possessing different weapons and wanting to be the most beautiful women in the world?

Because D&D are stuck trying to do something with GRRM's awful Dorne plotline.

10. How was that random son of the harpy able to penetrate Dany's security so deeply?

It looks like they went with minimal support, presumably a tactical error. Also, unsullied are good soldiers and not good at pretty much anything else. If Daario would quit flirting with her and focus on her defense, he might have caught it.

11. Why did the Sons of the Harpy simply not throw their spears at Dany? We know they can do this because they threw them quite effectively at Drogon?

Drogon is a much bigger and in the open target. They figured they had a better shot of getting someone in close and going stabbity.

12. Why was the pit fighter hesitating when he could have just killed Jorah?

Water dancers are showy. He appeared to be fighting honorably and seeing if she would give a "thumbs up" on Jorah's behalf.

13. Why is Jorah touching Dany? Is he really that selfish?

Yes. And it was with the other hand (I think) and doesn't appear to travel that way. But yes, he is that selfish.

14. Why is Dany flying away? She seems to have won.

OMG, she got to ride a freaking dragon. This question is too ridiculous for a serious response.

15. And even if she hasn't won, why is she leaving behind Missandei, whose hand she has holding quite poignantly only seconds ago?

Mother of Dragons > everything else. Plus Drogon had effectively removed most of the threat.

16. Why is Stannis burning his daughter? Why is Selyse the one to object?

Way, way too long to answer. As Melisandre put it, paraphrased, "You will have all the power you want and you will have to give up everything you are to get it."

17. Why is Tyrion saving helpless maidens?

... dude, it's Tyrion. Do you even know Tyrion? (Also too ridiculous for a serious answer.)

18. Where is Grey Worm?

I wondered that, too. Presumably elsewhere like the token Cabinet member during the State of the Union.

19. Why is Arya so bad as a spy?

She's a kid and human. And she didn't do all that terribly, considering.

20. Why is Trant a paedophile? Why is he throwing random homophobic slurs at someone who died years ago?

... shoot me now.

21. Why is Mace Tyrell singing?

Because he's your awkward and embarrassing dad!

22. Why is any of this happening?

Because, except for a few interesting questions worth discussing, you don't have any imagination or fundamental understanding of core characters.

[robasp2]

I gave a 1 for several reasons, some of which include the following:

1. How does Stannis not know what the Dance of the Dragons was?

2. How did Davos correctly guess the number of men who burnt their supplies? How did the supplies burn so quickly...with all that snow?

3. Why does Mace Tyrell not have a teleportation machine like Tyrion, LF, Jon and the wildlings, and Stannis?

4. Why did the Sons of the Harpy just kill everyone, even Hizdhar?

5. After everything he learnt, why is Jon going back to complaining about how no one likes him, without relaying the new information (especially about Valyrian steel) to anyone?

6. Why were the Sand Snakes slapping each other?

7. Why is Ellaria okay with the incest? And why is her character so inconsistent...in one episode?

8. Why is Doran giving his only heir to the Lannisters?

9. Why is Bronn being punched, why is Jaime still in Dorne, why are the Sand Snakes so devoid of personalities that go beyond possessing different weapons and wanting to be the most beautiful women in the world?

10. How was that random son of the harpy able to penetrate Dany's security so deeply?

11. Why did the Sons of the Harpy simply not throw their spears at Dany? We know they can do this because they threw them quite effectively at Drogon?

12. Why was the pit fighter hesitating when he could have just killed Jorah?

13. Why is Jorah touching Dany? Is he really that selfish?

14. Why is Dany flying away? She seems to have won.

15. And even if she hasn't won, why is she leaving behind Missandei, whose hand she has holding quite poignantly only seconds ago?

16. Why is Stannis burning his daughter? Why is Selyse the one to object?

17. Why is Tyrion saving helpless maidens?

18. Where is Grey Worm?

19. Why is Arya so bad as a spy?

20. Why is Trant a paedophile? Why is he throwing random homophobic slurs at someone who died years ago?

21. Why is Mace Tyrell singing?

22. Why is any of this happening?

I really appreciate you giving your reasons for your vote. Considering we have some dicks here who just go "Booo. 1/10

However I think ALL episodes in season 5 had epic plot holes. I could easily give this ep more than 1.

But anyway personal opinions differ. :)

Hmm. Staggered voting patern. I'm waiting for Ran's results

Edited June 8, 2015 by robasp2

[King Tyrion I]

Need to rewatch it before I'm gonna rate it.

[PatrickStormborn]

What's so great about Mad Men? Like truly great so great that rating Game of Thrones 1 would be generous? I am curios as I have watched all the episodes of both shows. And more I'm curious, if Game Of Thrones is THAT shit, what the hell are you still doing here bitching? Watching every episode and whining? On this very forum there are MANY sections entirely unpolluted of the poison in TV called Game Of Thrones, where Dimwit and Douchebag aren't allowed to touch George R R Martin's holy words for twisting them for their own lowly purposes like burning sweet little girls alive and then coming to lie about it in the interviews.

Maybe because bitching about the show is actually really entertaining? I mostly skim through the episodes anyway unless there's a scene I want to see adapted, so it's not like I'm losing any time over this. I only watch it because I've read the books and occasionally enjoy moments that are faithful and/or well-writen (unfortunately these have been extremely rare this season). I'm a university student with a lot of free time this month. Sue me.

Mad Men is well-written and thematic. I find it much more layered and complex than GoT, which is why I enjoy it. GoT is more comparable to something like Scandal.

Good for you.

Mad Men is probably my least favorite drama I've ever attempted watching. It's awful. Kudos for them for having great acting, great writing, great direction, and all that nonsense. It's completely wasted on one of the most worthless mediums of entertainment I've ever experienced in my life.

Game of Thrones, on the other hand, has resulted in me devoting a significant amount of my leisurely time to following. The book is certainly better than the TV series, but the book is sublime and TV gets more crap than it deserves for not following the book to a T.

As far as overall TV series goes, I'd give GoT a 9/10 and Mad Men a 2/10. Saying GoT is a 1/10 on the Mad Men scale is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on the internet.

Alright, I'm done, agree to disagree, have the last word if you must.

I never said it was a Mad Men scale. I used both The Sopranos and Mad Men as an example.

The point I was trying to make - in response to someone else - is that it's stupid to rate a show in comparison to other shows. I've rated this season against the show itself, which I think is a much better system. So my highest rated episodes were 5.01 and 5.08 (8/10), lowest were 5.06 and 5.09 (1/10), and the rest were around 5-7. For me, 5-7 is average/mostly inoffensive; 8 would be a strong episode with fewer plot-holes and offensive material (i.e. Gilly nearly getting raped with little impact on the plot); and 1, for me, is just when I think the show couldn't get any worse.

I avoid watching Mad Men immediately after GoT because the contrast in the quality of writing is just too jarring. Especially the dialogue.

Yeah same here. And Mad Men was held to such a high standard by reviewers, whilst reviews of GoT are essentially a variation of "lol that was cool".

[Takyon]

1. How does Stannis not know what the Dance of the Dragons was?

I'm going to assume that Stannis was humouring his daughter, as parents tend to do.

4. Why did the Sons of the Harpy just kill everyone, even Hizdhar?

That's probably a mystery that will be answered a little later on.

Otherwise, I agree with all your points. This episode was a wreck.

[jacksonbrowne]

Indeed.

Edited June 8, 2015 by jacksonbrowne

[Fan613]

Rated - 4 out of 10

Points of dislike:

1. Shireen getting burned as Stannis loses his grip on reality

2. Dorne is still very boring and going nowhere fast. Bronn needs more screen time.

3. Arya's story in Dorne is still going nowhere fast. "a man thinks this point of view is boring"

4. It would have been nice to see Ramsay and the 20 "good" men sneak into the camp and do the damage rather then see the tents going on fire.

5. No Screen time for Grey Worm?

Points of like:

1. Ser Jorah is finally back to where he belongs.

2. The Son's of the harpy instantly becoming worried/scared upon hearing Drogon roar.

[Mingolla]

9

Liked it more then Hardhome (not Jon/The Wall fan). Dont remember when was the last time when an episode hit me so hard. So much tension and emotional impact. Shireen scene was extremely well done. It was like RW or Ned´s beheading again. I will be cold when Jon get stabbed so this is my season highlight i guess. I think it is very much in Stannis character to sacrifice his daughter for greater good he believes in and it was the culmination of the storyline that existed from the season 2. For me he is as he always been in the books and in the show. Not evil. Just 100% dedicated to what he believe is the right thing, no matter the costs.

Only minor stuff prevented me to give it 10. I still cant see the point of Dorne even if those scenes were not bad. I still feel it is a structuraly butchered storyline. And there were some weird moments during Daznak pit that felt off. Like SoH not attacking all at once when Dany was surrounded before Drogon showing and than everyone watching him instead of fighting/running away.

[Caesar Augustus]

This was the last straw. Thanks D&D for butchering the books and ruining the character of Stannis. I'm done with this pleb show.

[Glad Komrad]

I gave a 1 for several reasons, some of which include the following:

1. How does Stannis not know what the Dance of the Dragons was?

2. How did Davos correctly guess the number of men who burnt their supplies? How did the supplies burn so quickly...with all that snow?

3. Why does Mace Tyrell not have a teleportation machine like Tyrion, LF, Jon and the wildlings, and Stannis?

4. Why did the Sons of the Harpy just kill everyone, even Hizdhar?

5. After everything he learnt, why is Jon going back to complaining about how no one likes him, without relaying the new information (especially about Valyrian steel) to anyone?

6. Why were the Sand Snakes slapping each other?

7. Why is Ellaria okay with the incest? And why is her character so inconsistent...in one episode?

8. Why is Doran giving his only heir to the Lannisters?

9. Why is Bronn being punched, why is Jaime still in Dorne, why are the Sand Snakes so devoid of personalities that go beyond possessing different weapons and wanting to be the most beautiful women in the world?

10. How was that random son of the harpy able to penetrate Dany's security so deeply?

11. Why did the Sons of the Harpy simply not throw their spears at Dany? We know they can do this because they threw them quite effectively at Drogon?

12. Why was the pit fighter hesitating when he could have just killed Jorah?

13. Why is Jorah touching Dany? Is he really that selfish?

14. Why is Dany flying away? She seems to have won.

15. And even if she hasn't won, why is she leaving behind Missandei, whose hand she has holding quite poignantly only seconds ago?

16. Why is Stannis burning his daughter? Why is Selyse the one to object?

17. Why is Tyrion saving helpless maidens?

18. Where is Grey Worm?

19. Why is Arya so bad as a spy?

20. Why is Trant a paedophile? Why is he throwing random homophobic slurs at someone who died years ago?

21. Why is Mace Tyrell singing?

22. Why is any of this happening?

Good criticisms. Still can't see it being a 1 of 10, but I agree with several of those "why"s.

[midi]

Laughing my azz off at the tards rating this episode 1/10. Oh My Rhllor. I thought you stopped watching after episode 6 but I guess not (because you think the show is very good and can't stop watching - but still trollvote it to 1 here ROTFL!). Btw IMDB is at 9.6 / 10 for this episode, and you're giving it 1's.. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: pretty effing stupid

This ep was a pretty strong one. Nice Drogon action. Stannis burned his daughter but who didn't see that coming - after all the guy shadowbabied his brother and burned a bunch of other ppl, and was gonna burn Gendry too. It was a well done scene imo, they showed the inner conflict the characters had about it. The part where Jon was on the wrong side of the Wall was pretty dumb but I understand that they did it because looked way more dramatic that way. Nothing much to say about Dorne, neither good or bad this time. I expect they will let us know the real plan Doran has next episode, but if not I'm content that we got rid of that storyline for the next season (hopefully) with Jaime, Bronn, Trystane and Myrcella heading to King's Landing.

In regards to Braavos, I don't think they needed to make Meryn Trant any more heinous, and in my opinion showing a bunch of similar looking scenes of Arya tailing him was pretty pointless, but it wasn't bad. It just wasn't very good either.

Overall I liked the episode, but it was no Hardhome. Still the good overshadowed the other parts quite clearly.

8½ / 10

[David Selig]

Laughing my azz off at the tards rating this episode 1/10. Oh My Rhllor. I thought you stopped watching after episode 6 but I guess not (because you think the show is very good and can't stop watching - but still trollvote it to 1 here ROTFL!). Btw IMDB is at 9.6 / 10 for this episode, and you're giving it 1's.. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: pretty effing stupid

Wait, you used IMDB ratings in support of your argument yet you are calling others stupid? ROFL.