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[Poll] How would you rate episode 509?

How would you rate episode 509?  

980 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      144
    • 2
      46
    • 3
      53
    • 4
      48
    • 5
      61
    • 6
      67
    • 7
      122
    • 8
      171
    • 9
      148
    • 10
      119


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7.5/10 Good episode, but the worst of the "Episode 9" finales.



Surprised at everyone's negative reaction of Stannis burning Shireen, I saw this coming a mile away. Stannis is obviously on a character arc opposite to Jaime's: while Jaime redeems himself, Stannis will destroy himself. The clues are in the books, people.


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Remember in previous seasons when people used to make those "Stannis: a balanced review [book spoilers]" topics? And when everyone said stannis fans were overreacting and that D&D weren't butchering his character and we should just wait till the later seasons when Stannis starts doing good things?



Someone better pick up that phone because we fucking called it.



The writing was on the wall they were going to ruin his character somehow like this. Ever since they changed his motivations behind his burnings from penalty for treason and deserting the nights watch to burning because infidels and refuse to bend knees we should have known. Heck they fucking changed his motivation for rescuing the wall from his noble duty bound protecting the realm mindset to doing w/e Mel tells him too and still we clinged to some small vestige of hope they would do the character justice.



But but in the books Stannis isn't a believer he's a skeptic and only keeps mel around because she could possibly be an asset. Hush now, stanstans, just because the show is depicting him as a fanatic doesn;t mean they'll ruin his character..


oh wait, noooo............



We were fucking right. Fuck this show.



https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1XZaAhSx8fg4y1JZHIsuSDyNWDgEnvNDDz8pX7ihmrrg/viewanalytics?usp=form_confirm

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And to anyone saying it was "in character" guess again.

"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."
The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead
— "
" — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."

Edited by Belisarius09

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What a compete failure of an episode. There was no reason to roast shireen and the acting surrounding it was terrible. Bad job....but then again we see visually how much a deserter Dany is

It was certainly not as good as 508. The Stannis bit has been coming a long time though and didn`t susprise me. They`ve been scheming since Blackwater to burn some royal blood and still people are surprised when they finally get round to it. His daughter was the only one around with any royal blood. It was a tad crude when it did happen of course. But then people who plan to burn others alive are probably a bit crude so why not? And Stannis has been crude the entire time. Have people not noticed?

Dany, apart from being very boring to me, is not a deserter. The killers were after her right, so if she leaves her followers can probably get away. If she had stayed they all would have died, including the dragon.The silliest part of this episode for me was the way the masked buffoons behaved when they had Dany surrounded. instead of a charge and everyone dead in ten seconds they just stand there and attack one at a time like morons. Not exactly convincing stuff.

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And to anyone saying it was "in character" guess again.

"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."

The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead — "

" — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."

Ser Justin put one hand on his sword hilt. "On my honor as a knight, you have my word."

It was in character, the Stannis who says this is the same Stannis who would have burned his nephew alive, were it not for Davos.

Sure, the show has been unkind to Stannis (There's less moral complexity for me in Show Stannis, except when they tried to make him seem "good" to up the shock value in Shireen's death), but ultimately Show Stannis and Book Stannis are both on the same path, the difference being that the show is rushing it and we will likely see it explained in actual depth in WoW.

Edited by RememberTheStarks

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I'm going to have to give this a 6. I just don't think the good makes up for the bad and mediocre.

Apart from being horrible in itself, the burning of Shireen doesn't make sense to me. I don't see Stannis killing his only heir. Book Stannis would have told Melisandre to pray harder. It also has the unfortunate effect of taking away any sympathy we might have for Stannis; and I'm left with the sneaking suspicion

that the show is going for shock value at the expense of plot and character.

It's true that there were some incidental merits in this segment: Shireen's conversations with her Onion Knight and with Stannis, which were well acted and touching; Selyse… But they weren't quite enough.

Daenerys: Drogon was cool, and the dialogue was decent. I think the fighting went on a bit too long, and was confusing.

Dorne started out passably, now that Doran actually got to do something. Then it went downhill. I liked Ser Alliser. Braavos tended to drag; Mace was mildly amusing. I found the pacing in this episode rather poor in general.

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I quit with the show and probably with the books to.

I do not diserve this as a reader and as a customer. Last time I checked stannis was days away from shireen, melissandre and selyse, asking Massey to put her daughter in the throne if he died.

Now brianne will chop him and he will go down as the most evil villan the book has ever had.

We've gotten to the point where Game of Thrones is almost certainly going to pull at least a partial Full Metal Alchemist- since the TV has caught up to the book's story, it looks like the two plots will entirely diverge. I wouldn't take anything you see on the show as being certain to happen in the books anymore.

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While I rated this lower than most episodes, my problem isn't necessarily that the burning happened, it's that the 180 degree swing of Stannis happened entirely too fast. A man who survived on rats and boiled leather wouldn't (within the span of weeks) change his basic character into a man who would slay his own child to obtain the throne. Negating the fact they should be leagues apart, I wouldn't have been half as shocked if Selyse and Mel drugged Stannis and burned Shireen without his notice.



After dragging through three seasons of excruciating details we are suddenly hit by the accelerator of 6 seasons (perhaps 7). How in the hell is everyone going to get to the final confrontation in 10 or even 20 more hours? It's taken 5 years to get this far. Perhaps most of those complaining as I am about this episode simply have whiplash from the burst of speed this season has taken?


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This show has me confused and lost. I mean, will we ever see backlash from what happened at the Red Wedding? The shit Sansa has to live with will she ever get any type of vindication?



The thing I hate most about this story is the lack of vindication. So much has happened, so much fucked up shit. They sewed the damn dire wolves head on Robb Stark and marched him around after everything else that was done.. They say the "north remembers" or will never forget.. but does that really mean anything? LOL



I guess the only people left to see punished are Roose and Ramsay right? What happened to the Freys?


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While I rated this lower than most episodes, my problem isn't necessarily that the burning happened, it's that the 180 degree swing of Stannis happened entirely too fast. A man who survived on rats and boiled leather wouldn't (within the span of weeks) change his basic character into a man who would slay his own child to obtain the throne. Negating the fact they should be leagues apart, I wouldn't have been half as shocked if Selyse and Mel drugged Stannis and burned Shireen without his notice.

After dragging through three seasons of excruciating details we are suddenly hit by the accelerator of 6 seasons (perhaps 7). How in the hell is everyone going to get to the final confrontation in 10 or even 20 more hours? It's taken 5 years to get this far. Perhaps most of those complaining as I am about this episode simply have whiplash from the burst of speed this season has taken?

I am willing to bet a lot of money that they'll make more than two seasons.

I think Stannis is a believer in the books, but he's not a fanatic. He is pragmatic- he believes in the Lord of Light because that God has shown his power quite clearly on many occasions. I don't think pragmatism would make him burn his daughter though.

The only occasion where Stannis would burn his daughter and have it be fitting for the character/justifiable within the moral rules Stannis seems to live by would be if burning his daughter if that was the only way to keep the White Walkers from succeeding (perhaps not overall, but in a crucial battle). Most importantly, that sacrifice would have to work- if it did not stop the White Walkers then he's just another failed fanatic, but if he succeeds then the audience has to wrestle with whether or not the price was worth it.

Alternatively, another follower could burn the princess in order to save Stannis' army, but the sacrifice was not done with Stannis' consent or knowledge.

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9, it was pretty good TV. The flying dragon added a +1. Previously we were speculating if it might be too early for Dany to fly in this episode, but what the hell, as long as it works.



Took a point off for Braavos, I can't believe they are going to build up Arya's arc for so long just so she can kill a super duper minor character that no one remembers. My unsullied was asking me, who is that man? (Meryn Trant). I had to tell him it's been 5 years and you wouldn't know him anymore, but he's the royal bodyguard and he is one of those who were nasty to her and her father.



It's probably going to end up with her going blind at the end of the season and then waiting for 9 months again, but that is just going to piss a lot of people off.



Why are people taking points off for killing of Shireen? She is a really nice girl but she is useless as an heir. I'm not sure if she could give birth to continue the line or if greyscale kills early. Saying why is Stannis killing off his heir is really not a valid reason since she is only good as marriage bait to gain an alliance. I doubt she is fertile. She can't be a viable heir and he is probably banking on having other kids. Of course I'm pissed at show Stannis but I've accepted that he is a bad guy in the show and he killed her for a reason that made sense to him at that time. Hate him for killing his own daughter, but don't hate him for gratuious killing, since it still made sense to the plot.



Another point off for Ellaria. Really dislike her. Why is the mistress of a deceased brother even invited to a meeting... doesn't make sense, and what a bitch. I only liked Doran showing his power at last.


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First post.



Been watching this tv show since the first episode. I get that it is a dark and twisted other reality, but.......



When it comes to a father buring his sweet young daughter alive, to achive his own twisted goal, and for the producers of this show to casually do it for shock value. Well, that's just bullshit.



I'm paid up for the last episode this year.

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9, it was pretty good TV. The flying dragon added a +1. Previously we were speculating if it might be too early for Dany to fly in this episode, but what the hell, as long as it works.

Took a point off for Braavos, I can't believe they are going to build up Arya's arc for so long just so she can kill a super duper minor character that no one remembers. My unsullied was asking me, who is that man? (Meryn Trant). I had to tell him it's been 5 years and you wouldn't know him anymore, but he's the royal bodyguard and he is one of those who were nasty to her and her father.

It's probably going to end up with her going blind at the end of the season and then waiting for 9 months again, but that is just going to piss a lot of people off.

Why are people taking points off for killing of Shireen? She is a really nice girl but she is useless as an heir. I'm not sure if she could give birth to continue the line or if greyscale kills early. Saying why is Stannis killing off his heir is really not a valid reason since she is only good as marriage bait to gain an alliance. I doubt she is fertile. She can't be a viable heir and he is probably banking on having other kids. Of course I'm pissed at show Stannis but I've accepted that he is a bad guy in the show and he killed her for a reason that made sense to him at that time. Hate him for killing his own daughter, but don't hate him for gratuious killing, since it still made sense to the plot.

Another point off for Ellaria. Really dislike her. Why is the mistress of a deceased brother even invited to a meeting... doesn't make sense, and what a bitch. I only liked Doran showing his power at last.

Yes, Shireen has been shown as being precocious in the show but in the books, she is isolated, sheltered and held in little regard. Jon considers her to be nice but homely, Mel doesn't even seem to know that she exists, Val thinks she should be smothered for the common good, Maester Cressen saw her as a reminder of his failures. I agree that outside of a marriage, she has little value. If Stannis were to die and she tried to claim the Iron Throne, as a child Queen, its hard to see her as being anything else but a victim, who would be controlled by regents to her own doom, one way or another.

TV Shireen has been painted a little more sympatheticly and has been used to humanise Stannis, she is supposed to be the one person in the world he truly loves. Killing her really removes the last vestiges of his humanity. I agree that it makes sense if you consider the backstory of AA and the sacrifice of his wife to forge Lightbringer. Does it make sense in the context of the TV show? I'm not sure, besides the shadow baby in season 2, what has Mel really done?

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9, it was pretty good TV. The flying dragon added a +1. Previously we were speculating if it might be too early for Dany to fly in this episode, but what the hell, as long as it works.

Took a point off for Braavos, I can't believe they are going to build up Arya's arc for so long just so she can kill a super duper minor character that no one remembers. My unsullied was asking me, who is that man? (Meryn Trant). I had to tell him it's been 5 years and you wouldn't know him anymore, but he's the royal bodyguard and he is one of those who were nasty to her and her father.

It's probably going to end up with her going blind at the end of the season and then waiting for 9 months again, but that is just going to piss a lot of people off.

Why are people taking points off for killing of Shireen? She is a really nice girl but she is useless as an heir. I'm not sure if she could give birth to continue the line or if greyscale kills early. Saying why is Stannis killing off his heir is really not a valid reason since she is only good as marriage bait to gain an alliance. I doubt she is fertile. She can't be a viable heir and he is probably banking on having other kids. Of course I'm pissed at show Stannis but I've accepted that he is a bad guy in the show and he killed her for a reason that made sense to him at that time. Hate him for killing his own daughter, but don't hate him for gratuious killing, since it still made sense to the plot.

Another point off for Ellaria. Really dislike her. Why is the mistress of a deceased brother even invited to a meeting... doesn't make sense, and what a bitch. I only liked Doran showing his power at last.

DP

Edited by jarl the climber

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Why I'm giving this episode a 9:

Just finished watching a second time.

First the controversial scene: I was semi-spoiled by the leaks yesterday afternoon and even as a huge show supporter I was confused as to why they were going this route. However, after I watched the inside the episode piece I took D&D at their word. Until I read something different in WOW in 2020 or Martin outright denies Stannis burns Shireen I'll believe D&D.

Assuming this is what happens in the books this scene was actually beautifully acted. The post above that stated Stannis is the opposite of Jamie I believe is spot on. Stannis' story is playing out like a Greek tragedy. For those claiming "Stannis wouldn't do this so quickly--look what he did at Storms End!!" Well the times are a changing. We got a sea of white walkers about to head south and time is of the essence. The White Walkers are a much more realized threat at this point in the show story and Stannis has been warned about this threat by Davos, Melisandre, Jon and Sam.

The main reason I rated this episode a 9 is because of the pit scene. I've been waiting years to see this and they pulled it off. I loved the reconciliation between Dany and Jorah. The Harpies were intense and Drogon was incredible. The episode ends leaving us with at least one ray of hope and that's just fine for now.

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I think it's hilarious how people vote according to "who got burned" or "who didn't do this or who did that".

Emotional bias is strong on this forum, which is strange, considering GoTs is a saga that clearly shows how humans being driven by their emotional bias leads to some very dark places :D

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The Dorne storyline was good and simple, I like the Jamie and Elaria. But at what price? In the past episodes we had terrible dialogue, bad fight scenes, and weak storyline. All Jamie does in the entire storyline is easily sneak in, annihilate Obara with one hand, get captured and Doran going ok. :) His talk with Elaria is the only real character development. Doran did all the negotiations which were rather simple. The Riverlands storyline where Jamie is more of a diplomat rather than a headstrong warrior is a better story.



Dany scenes were good. I wished Hizzar lived or was the Harpy leader. Such a waste. The Drogon Machina was too simple IMO to end the Harpy conflict.



So were Arya. Hope she kills that sick monster Pedotrant.



The Shireen scene. I can live with it. Seriously, why are people so mad? Stannis cuts Daavos fingers off even after saving his life, burns people, kills his own brother, tortures his nephew, sends thousands of troops to a slaughterhouse after wildfire explosion, willing to murder Mance's entire crew for Mance simply not bending the knee, and sends his troops in a freezing blizzard not willing to go back. If D&D changed the storyline(which they didn't, GRRM planned Shireen to die) how is that out of character? Stannis was desperate, his army was freezing and starving on the brink of desertion from Ramsay's guerilla attacks. He knew Mel's magic was legit.



Too many Stannis fanboys.


Edited by Mrbsct

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The Dorne storyline was good and simple, I like the Jamie and Elaria. But at what price? In the past episodes we had terrible dialogue, bad fight scenes, and weak storyline. All Jamie does in the entire storyline is easily sneak in, annihilate Obara with one hand, get captured and Doran going ok. :) His talk with Elaria is the only real character development. Doran did all the negotiations which were rather simple. The Riverlands storyline where Jamie is more of a diplomat rather than a headstrong warrior is a better story.

Dany scenes were good. I wished Hizzar lived or was the Harpy leader. Such a waste. The Drogon Machina was too simple IMO to end the Harpy conflict.

So were Arya. Hope she kills that sick monster Pedotrant.

The Shireen scene. I can live with it. Seriously, why are people so mad? Stannis cuts Daavos fingers off even after saving his life, burns people, kills his own brother, tortures his nephew, sends thousands of troops to a slaughterhouse after wildfire explosion, willing to murder Mance's entire crew for Mance simply not bending the knee, and sends his troops in a freezing blizzard not willing to go back. If D&D changed the storyline(which they didn't, GRRM planned Shireen to die) how is that out of character? Stannis was desperate, his army was freezing and starving on the brink of desertion from Ramsay's guerilla attacks. He knew Mel's magic was legit.

Too many Stannis fanboys.

^^

People are getting the wrong idea about Stannis; they want him to be "the good guy", and think he'll always go with the "morally right" choices.

At the end of the game though, Stannis isn't going to be that good guy who does the morally right thing (i.e.- Ned) he's going to be the guy who will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to get him to his end-goals, and I think it's going to end up costing him a lot morally. He's not a black-and-white character.

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Why I'm giving this episode a 9:

Just finished watching a second time.

First the controversial scene: I was semi-spoiled by the leaks yesterday afternoon and even as a huge show supporter I was confused as to why they were going this route. However, after I watched the inside the episode piece I took D&D at their word. Until I read something different in WOW in 2020 or Martin outright denies Stannis burns Shireen I'll believe D&D.

Assuming this is what happens in the books this scene was actually beautifully acted. The post above that stated Stannis is the opposite of Jamie I believe is spot on. Stannis' story is playing out like a Greek tragedy. For those claiming "Stannis wouldn't do this so quickly--look what he did at Storms End!!" Well the times are a changing. We got a sea of white walkers about to head south and time is of the essence. The White Walkers are a much more realized threat at this point in the show story and Stannis has been warned about this threat by Davos, Melisandre, Jon and Sam.

The main reason I rated this episode a 9 is because of the pit scene. I've been waiting years to see this and they pulled it off. I loved the reconciliation between Dany and Jorah. The Harpies were intense and Drogon was incredible. The episode ends leaving us with at least one ray of hope and that's just fine for now.

Good post, as always. I will give it myself 9/10. Certainly not as good than Hardhome (pretty hard to top it, I don't think that even next week season finale will do it), and it was, probably, the weakest of the "episode 9 event" in the series so far. But it was great TV, and The Pit scene was pure magic.

Edited by Barristan Whitebeard

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