SerDesmondHume Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Well I'm glad this episode despite not making any sense opened some Mannis fans to the idea that he isn't perfect. I loved Renly. I love someone from aDwD who is probably cut from the show. I think Dany isn't a good match as a ruler of westeros is still ripe with good qualities. Stannis has good qualities too but he's just so entitled that I could never fully root for him. Even though Renly is spoiled he tries to treat everyone well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Robb should not have supported Stannis. You got a nice TWOW-Stannis preview tonight.Pleased to know Robb was psychic and knew this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Pleased to know Robb was psychic and knew this... You are right. He wasn't a psychic. He was a military genius however (for every good judgment call though, there is a bad one he makes) and not throwing in the towel for Stannis, now that we have seen what an insane monster he is (this is worse than most of the things the "Mad King" did), is just another example of great judgment from Robb After his mistake with marrying Jeyne (and it was a mistake, there should have been pain and repercussion from it, not complete betrayal and murder under the protection of the house he was staying at though), I see not siding with Stannis as one of (if not the main) complaint people lob at Robb. I wonder if those people who raise that complaint feel the same now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordi Nietos Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 "When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen." - David Benioff This would still fit if Melisandre burned Shireen while Stannis is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 You are right. He wasn't a psychic. He was a military genius however (for every good judgment call though, there is a bad one he makes) and not throwing in the towel for Stannis, now that we have seen what an insane monster he is (this is worse than most of the things the "Mad King" did), is just another example of great judgment from Robb After his mistake with marrying Jeyne (and it was a mistake, there should have been pain and repercussion from it, not complete betrayal and murder under the protection of the house he was staying at though), I see not siding with Stannis as one of (if not the main) complaint people lob at Robb. I wonder if those people who raise that complaint feel the same now?Burning someone is now worse than...burning someone? What?It would have militarily made sense for Robb to ally with Stannis or Renly when he marched South. But he didn't. Don't base your judgment of that decision on something that may happen in the future. (Incidentally, I suspect this happens in the books, but without Stannis present, given where the books stand right now). Hell, O don't even like Stannis. And I don't necessarily think Robb should have allied with him, though he should have listened to his mother when she told him to try for peace, But to say "this" is a reason Robb shouldn't have allied with Stannis is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This would have been awesome. I know George loves being unpredictable, and the show loves being edgy, but sometimes if we simply got what we wanted, I do think this series would be better. Someone should capitalize on the distaste ASOIAF/GOT eventually raised out of a lot of fans or former fans, and write a fantasy novel that isn't necessarily cliche in having the good guys always winning, but offering a story that stays away from becoming cliche in the bad guys always winning and "good" characters always having their teeth kicked in There's got to be a viable balance between the two. Perhaps ASOIAF finds that balance in books 6 and 7, but I think the tv series killed that balance with season 5 I lost it when Baelor Breakspear suddenly had half of his brain smashed. I still though have a faint hope that in the end the good guys will be vindicated, if GRRM doesn't want to be the most despised writer ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 **** Stannis and his throne. Ned died for Stannis? Good for Robb for wanting to divorce himself and the North from the united kingdoms of Westeros "Renly Baratheon is nothing to me, nor Stannis neither.... It was the Dragons we married, and now the dragons are all dead." Don't screw this up Jon or Dany, or (f?)Aegon Robb didn't break his oaths because he foresaw that Stannis was a bad person. Or even because HE thought becoming King was in any way a good or bad idea. He became King and broke away from the Realm because his lord bannermen decided it and he couldn't contain them. Robb should be glad Ned wasn't alive to see it, he'd be disgusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Robb didn't break his oaths because he foresaw that Stannis was a bad person. Or even because HE thought becoming King was in any way a good or bad idea. He became King and broke away from the Realm because his lord bannermen decided it and he couldn't contain them. Robb should be glad Ned wasn't alive to see it, he'd be disgusted. Ned doesn't have a ton of room to judge. He's a guy who died for a future Mad King (Stannis, if he ever were to sit) at the expense of living and perhaps being around to help his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denam_Pavel Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ned doesn't have a ton of room to judge. He's a guy who died for a future Mad King (Stannis, if he ever were to sit) at the expense of living and perhaps being around to help his family. Yeah, and it can be argued that Ned should know better, actually knowing Stannis and Renly and Joffrey as well as his lord bannermen. This does not apply to Robb and Robb's motives matter. His motives for creating the Kingdom of the North were "eh, I don't wanna interrupt Greatjon's cool speech." Why would anything in this episode make us stop giving Robb **** for being such a doormat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 "When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen." - David Benioff AAArg! This still hasnt sunk in yet! This is literally worse than the Red Wedding. Stannis was the ONLY king that was fighting to save Westeros. Everyone else is fighting each other for the throne while Stannis risked life and limb to protect the world from the Others. That is whhy I supported him. How could he do this? God I feel sick. I guess I am back to being a Jon or a Dany fan... Boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 If this truly happens in the books (i.e Stannis burns Shireen for his own good) then it would be really shit writing by GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 AAArg! This still hasnt sunk in yet! This is literally worse than the Red Wedding. Stannis was the ONLY king that was fighting to save Westeros. Everyone else is fighting each other for the throne while Stannis risked life and limb to protect the world from the Others. That is whhy I supported him. How could he do this? God I feel sick. I guess I am back to being a Jon or a Dany fan... Boring. Read it again. It does not say Stannis do it. It just says Shireen gets killed due to her blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 At the OP: To be honest (as real Robb Stark fan), I don't understand why readers are complaining about Robb's decision not to support Stannis In a GOT:(...) What does Lord Stannis have against that, that we should cast it all aside?""The right," Robb said stubbornly. Catelyn thought he sounded eerily like his father as he said it. "So you mean us to declare for Stannis?" asked Edmure. "I don't know," said Robb."I prayed to know what to do, but the gods did not answer. The Lannisters killed my father for a traitor, and we know that was lie, but if Joffrey is the lawful king and we fight against him, we will be traitors."And then Robb says nothing more, his bannermen and the bannermen of his grandfather are starting to discuss which king they should follow. And then the Northern Lords (and the river lords) proclaimed him as King In the end Robb did not now Joffrey was a product of incest. What would have happened if Stannis acted sooner and made it public. All the time Ned was in KL and in fact fighting for Stannis' claim to the thrones, Stannis was sitting safe in the Dragonstone. So I blame Stannis himself for the fact he did not gain the support of Robb in the beginning. I think it is however difficult to say anything about how we should feel Robb not backing Stannis as a result of Shireen's burning as we don't know what will happen in the books. I think it is however very sad Ned died for the right of someone who is willing to sacrifice his own daughter, while at the same time the killing of children was actually the thing which Ned absolutely abhors. He went to Cersei so she could save her own children, it was the reason of the fights between him and Robert, he destroyed his honor for the safety of his own daughter, ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 At the OP: To be honest (as real Robb Stark fan), I don't understand why readers are complaining about Robb's decision not to support Stannis In a GOT: (...) What does Lord Stannis have against that, that we should cast it all aside?" "The right," Robb said stubbornly. Catelyn thought he sounded eerily like his father as he said it. "So you mean us to declare for Stannis?" asked Edmure. "I don't know," said Robb."I prayed to know what to do, but the gods did not answer. The Lannisters killed my father for a traitor, and we know that was lie, but if Joffrey is the lawful king and we fight against him, we will be traitors." And then Robb says nothing more, his bannermen and the bannermen of his grandfather are starting to discuss which king they should follow. And then the Northern Lords (and the river lords) proclaimed him as King In the end Robb did not now Joffrey was a product of incest. What would have happened if Stannis acted sooner and made it public. All the time Ned was in KL and in fact fighting for Stannis' claim to the thrones, Stannis was sitting safe in the Dragonstone. So I blame Stannis himself for the fact he did not gain the support of Robb in the beginning. I think it is however difficult to say anything about how we should feel Robb not backing Stannis as a result of Shireen's burning as we don't know what will happen in the books. I think it is however very sad Ned died for the right of someone who is willing to sacrifice his own daughter, while at the same time the killing of children was actually the thing which Ned absolutely abhors. He went to Cersei so she could save her own children, it was the reason of the fights between him and Robert, he destroyed his honor for the safety of his own daughter, ... Ned and Robb didn't know Stannis is Melisandre's bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ned didn't "die for" Stannis. How silly is it to reduce all the events surrounding his death to that? He ended up dead because he refused to take power as regent like Renly proposed due to moral objection and believed he could resolve the conflict differently. He would likely have given that power to Stannis or declared for him against Tywin/Renly at some point but that's really not what he "died for". If anything, he died for the idea of proper succession, whatever that means. Not to mention the fact that he didn't make the conscious choice to die at all and actually confessed in order to be sent to the wall (and live). I'm unsure the phrase "Ned died for..." is even something you can use unless you're talking about a different Ned, in a different universe, doing different things and dying under different circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 If this truly happens in the books (i.e Stannis burns Shireen for his own good) then it would be really shit writing by GRRM. Well, in the book Stannis has had that vision about the crown burning him to death. Regardless of whatever it is he could do, his own good won't be and hasn't been his motivation since ACOK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerseiStark Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 If this truly happens in the books (i.e Stannis burns Shireen for his own good) then it would be really shit writing by GRRM. No, it would be shit writing if it didn't happen, because it's been foreshadowed pretty much since the character of Shireen was introduced. It's completely in character for Stannis - he has only one goal, to become King. He doesn't seemingly care for anyone or anything but claiming that title. He was bewitched by a red haired magician who flashed her junk to him and took advantage of his desperation and utter failure at leadership skills. Stanis murdered his own brother in the most cowardly way possible, being a stubborn SOB with a stick up your butt does not make one noble or brave. At least Joffrey didn't pretend he wasn't a total psychopath, that's what makes Stannis worse - he does this all under the guise of nobility when he wouldn't know what nobility was if it was inserted in his behind. I actually wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Melisandre has actually been working for someone else this whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Eric Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 ^^:lol: What a terrible post. Not even going to bother with that shite. Terribly transparent that you either haven't read the books or don't like Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
born amidst snow and corn Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 it was easier for robb to secede from the seven kingdoms than to back a man with the smallest army in this war to take the iron throne after the blackwater, before that he did his best to help stannis take king's landing only edmure screwed everything up. stannis being a good or bad person doesn't change any of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Storm Reborn Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Yes... he should have supported dany with her docile child killing dragons who compared to the demon stannis who burns his daughter on the show, look like disney cute beasts... In the books, the land of no bias fan fiction... Stannis is the one saving Robb's home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.