(Book Spoilers) Mannis 2 Society: Burning Anxiety

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Somewhere E-Ro has just died inside. And he may have had heart failure. I hope he's ok!

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Well, I'm officially out of the Stannis fandom. The guy is now a multiple time kin slayer who also abandons his elder brother at his hour of need and considered killing his bastard nephew. And this is GRRM's idea, not D&Ds.

You know, what really upsets me more is that Stannis is in this exact same predicament in the books, and he does not resort to this.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I'm pretty sure They were told Mel burns Shireen, not that Stannis burns her, since there's no way he can act like he acted in Theon I If he does burn her. Also, they're quite a bit of miles away.

[averde]

Show Stannis doesn't have a fan left after that scene, so if that was D&Ds intention then they succeeded. Stannis didn't seem remotely remorseful/ conflicted enough to keep any fans, and due to his actions it probably wouldn't have mattered but regardless they could have tried to show a little more guilt or sadness especially after that dad/daughter scene just a few episodes ago.

Based on where book Stannis is when we last saw him he's not involved in the burning if one happens, and based on his preview chapter from winds he wouldn't do one even if he could nor has one planned.

I don't think Davos knew or had an idea of what was going on before he left.

All in all, I think this is just an example of the D&D fanfic version of GoT growing, obviously as a Stannis fan I'm not happy with the changes but it's their show and this is the direction they've chosen to go and I'll continue to enjoy the show what it is as a separate entity and enjoy the book, and book Stannis, for its material.

[Follmann]

The show runners explicitly state that GRRM told them Stannis would do this. Stannis apologists of the world, here is your king! I can't wait to hear how y'all are going to explain this away.

It's very likely that Shireen's burning will be a result of the fallout at the wall. But I don't see how Stannis could be involved.

[The Northern Scholar]

I think people need to lay off D&D a bit on this. They SAID GRRM told them this was going to go down. I doubt they are lying so I believe them.

In any case I agree he is not redeemable. There is no one to root for in the Battle for Winterfell. I hope Sansa and Theon escape and that every last man, Baratheon and Bolton burns.

Yup. There are plenty of other terrible decisions they made just from this episode to point out.

I'm pretty sure They were told Mel burns Shireen, not that Stannis burns her, since there's no way he can act like he acted in Theon I If he does burn her. Also, they're quite a bit of miles away.

This wouldn't surprise me at all.

[VeturKemur]

D&D say George told them Stannis does it... so it is what it is. One of the more shocking moments in ASoIaF.

[Lord Ben]

I guess

It's very likely that Shireen's burning will be a result of the fallout at the wall. But I don't see how Stannis could be involved.

I guess we'll just have to read a little further. It's not like people can't move during the space between chapters.

I'm still a fan of Stannis. Duty/love is always a hard choice. Burning alive is a bit harsh but so is ordering a few thousand men to die in a battle.

[kingkiller]

OP: I feel like Davos knew Stannis was thinking about it but never thought he would actually go through with it. If Davos really thought Shireen would be burnt and did nothing to stop it he's 1000x worse than Stannis. I feel like he's going to flip on Stannis now. Next season Sansa will tell Davos about Bran and Rickon being alive, and he will go look for them. He can be her Hand.

[hiemal]

Sadly, I don't this is out of character for Stannis, or GRRM, at all. The only issue I see with this is Davos' proximity and the timing.

[dielsis]

Yeah but he isn't really a villian compared the following:

Joffery: "I killed Ned for the lolz."

Roose:"I stabbed Robb in the heart because he never listened to me."

Stannis:"I killed my only daughter because a fire priestess told me unless I kill the one I love then me and all my men will die and I can't save Westeros from the White Walkers."

One of these things is not like the other

Leaving words out of the other two doesn't make them any less similar when it comes to willingly making an awful decision. Stannis is and always has been a bad guy:

The guy is now a multiple time kin slayer who also abandons his elder brother at his hour of need and considered killing his bastard nephew.

It has to be him in the books. It's the only significant way it makes sense. Stannis is there to prove why extremism is bad and his rigidity is extremism.

But it's the same author who barfed up A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons, so it probably *will* be a part of the Night's Watch fallout somehow. Ugh.

[lancerman]

This is exactly what's going to happen, it will go down very similar in the books to what we saw tonight. A few slight details will be different a line of dialogue will be different. The people who are crucifying D&D right now will hold onto those few details and swear up and down that different dialogue and slight differences made it all COMPLETELY different.

[qhorin wholehand]

I will say I hated the scene. But if it happens in the books, it won't be the same Stannis we saw today in the show, burn his daughter. He'll be a desperate and crazed Stannis that somehow has returned to Castle Black through "winter" or it won't be Stannis burning her at all. I guess we can argue he was desperate and possibly crazed in the show, but he was not a broken man, and from his book character it would only take a broken Stannis to burn Shireen.

Hell, show Stannis let his brother's (who he wasn't too fond of) bastard live for blood magic, and it worked....

[The Drunkard]

Stanley Barton has been consistently more willing to burn people than Stannis Baratheon. He was burning people for refusing to convert, burning people for speaking against Melisandre, he was willing to burn Gendry without requiring any proof (he literally agrees within minutes of meeting him and Melisandre, of all people, makes him wait), and has now burned his daughter because he was stuck in a blizzard.

So, it wasn't out of character for Stanley, but for Stannis? Yes, which should go without saying as when faced with the same scenario in ADWD he refuses to burn anyone innocent, let alone someone like Shireen.

[ColdBenDaario NaStarkHands]

I don't think Davos knew or had an idea of what was going on before he left.

He had an inkling that something was off though and was visibly reluctant to leave. Stannis' "my family stays with me" was pretty ominous too?

What does Davos do now? Is it possible he'll buddy up with Jon and then get sent on his Rickon quest?

I feel like he's going to flip on Stannis now. Next season Sansa will tell Davos about Bran and Rickon being alive, and he will go look for them. He can be her Hand.

This works too I guess, but to be near Sansa won't Davos have to be with/in Stannis' army? Unless Sansa manages to flee to CB. People also seem to think Sansa is going LSH, which kinda precludes any lucid conversations with Davos.

[Dragon_Rider]

^No, when GRRM writes the Shireen-burning scene it will completely be logical, purposeful and absolve Stannis of any guilt or blame.

[mdrake34]

David Benioff from the 5x09 Inside the Episode on Shireen's burning:

"When George first told us about this."

"WHEN GEORGE FIRST TOLD US ABOUT THIS."

Link?

[Lothar]

They said GRRM mentioned the scene to them so I think it'll happen in the book.

They did? When?

I think everyone is rooting for Ramsay now.

[averde]

This is exactly what's going to happen, it will go down very similar in the books to what we saw tonight. A few slight details will be different a line of dialogue will be different. The people who are crucifying D&D right now will hold onto those few details and swear up and down that different dialogue and slight differences made it all COMPLETELY different.

Except you know Shireen didn't march south with Stannis, and is at Castle Black with her mom and Mel, and Stannis is rumored to be dead so... Just saying.

[ctid1977]

I don't buy that Stannis does it in the books. I buy that Mel does it, awakes the stone dragon and brings back Jon. But not Stannis.

Stannis who just sent Justin massey to get an army and put Shireen on the throne if Stannis dies? I do not buy it. I think she gets burned, but not by her dad and not on his orders. I'll see when the book comes out but I don't buy it.