Nefertari Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 He's had a long time to do it. It doesn't take that long to have sex, by the way, "Sorry I have to work in the morning" isn't really an excuse. Stannis has been setup for this since we met the character in ACoK. Cold his with Maester, cold with his brothers, cold with his wife, cold with the world. He's a lonely man, through and through, being moved like a puppet on a string to fulfill a destiny that isn't even his own. He will never relent and will give up everything to get what he believes he deserves, and ultimately will be left with nothing, tragically the last Baratheon. At least that's the impression I always had after he killed Renly. I agree . 5 minutes can be enough for Stannis doing his duty with his wife. Stannis has never shown as a positive character, he's consumed by envy and he's cold to everyone, his destiny is tragic, the killing of Shireen will be something that will haunt him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeyne's Addiction Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How will you guys feel if Stannis breaks down alone in a tent next episode? Like, full body sobbing. Change anything for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertari Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How will you guys feel if Stannis breaks down alone in a tent next episode? Like, full body sobbing. Change anything for you? Not for me. Stannis *loves* his daughter (the show made it very clear), but instead of protecting her he sacrificed her (for his own personal ambitions), it's an awful crime even in a world like GOT with low morality. I would expect him to break sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pashernate Reader Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How will you guys feel if Stannis breaks down alone in a tent next episode? Like, full body sobbing. Change anything for you? During the sacrifice he looked to me like something snapped inside of him already, but I don't think he'll shed a tear until Winterfell falls. If it falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeyne's Addiction Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Alive and well: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHCuMQ-W0AER2sb.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor92 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 He's had a long time to do it. It doesn't take that long to have sex, by the way, "Sorry I have to work in the morning" isn't really an excuse. Stannis has been setup for this since we met the character in ACoK. Cold his with Maester, cold with his brothers, cold with his wife, cold with the world. He's a lonely man, through and through, being moved like a puppet on a string to fulfill a destiny that isn't even his own. He will never relent and will give up everything to get what he believes he deserves, and ultimately will be left with nothing, tragically the last Baratheon. At least that's the impression I always had after he killed Renly. Selyse has only given him stillborn children though (apart from Shireen) so it's not like he would instantly have a child. Plus imagine having a pregnant Selyse while they're waging a war and have such scarce supplies. Not a good idea. Finally, Shireen is 15 years old. If he would get a new heir he/she would be 0. That would take 15 extra years for his heir to come of age compared to Shireen. 15 years during which Stannis needs to survive and secure the Iron Throne. If he dies too soon then his heir will be so young that he/she will lose the claim. Shireen will soon be of age and with a good marriage pact (Rickon? Jon?) the chance for a good claim on the IT is much better. I think it would be an excellent idea for Stannis to get more heirs but killing Shireen is a stupid move. He knows he's likely not long for this world and without an almost-of-age heir the chances of a Baratheon line back on the IT have diminished greatly. The only explanation for killing Shireen is that he's a selfish asshole who only cares about power and doesn't give a damn about his successor. Or he would have to be so deluded and crazily confident that he's sure that he'll survive everything, win the IT and then worry about an heir after all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeyne's Addiction Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Shireen will soon be of age and with a good marriage the chance for a good claim on the IT is much better. I think it would be an excellent idea for Stannis to get more heirs but killing Shireen is a stupid move. He knows he's likely not long for this world and without an almost-of-age heir the chances of a Baratheon line back on the IT have diminished greatly. Again, Shireen was entirely unmarriageable due to her grayscale. Yet another reason her purpose was to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wind Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Why would book Stannis kill his only heir? In 6 books all we've read of Stannis seems to suggest that he cares only about putting a Baratheon line on the throne, starting with Shireen. He has no personal desire for power. See the TWoW quote in my signature. It doesn't make any sense if he kills Shireen, no matter how many artocities he commits or how many other people he burns. If he kills Shireen then he ensures that if he ever dies, his claim to the throne will be lost and no Baratheon will ever sit on the Iron Throne again. The only counterargument I can think of is that he could try to gain a new heir but he has no time for that while he's fighting a war, he would have to do it before sacrificing Shireen or he endangers his claim and it would take way too many years for his heir to grow of age and if he's ever killed during that time, his heir would not be powerful/old enough to secure his claim. Even if Stannis would be the devil himself then it would make no sense that he kills Shireen. Unless he just wants to sit on the Iron Throne and doesn't care about his successor, but that goes against anything that was established about his character so far. Exactly. Moral and emotional aspects aside, this is why I think that the show's decision does not make any sense. Stannis wants to win the Iron Throne because he is convinced that he is the rightful king. Moreover, he is the only legitimate Baratheon left. Apart from Shireen. As far as I can remember it is said that Selyse cannot bear any more children. Stannis should be well aware of the fact that the realm will support him even less when he cannot provide any heirs. Even if he becomes king, as soon as Stannis dies, there is a high risk of another Civil War. But Stannis wants to restore peace to Westeros. And at this moment he is not even king, yet but in the middle of a war and he might very well die in the next battle. Why then would he want to kill Shireen who is his only heir and the only one left to continue the Baratheon line? Without Shireen, House Baratheon would be extinguished as soon as Stannis dies because there is no other legitimate Baratheon left. Even if Stannis did not care for Shireen at all and even if he was sold to Mel's cause completely, why would he agree to sacrifice his own house? In the books Shireen is left at the Wall where she is relatively safe. In the show Stannis takes her with him to battle. Why? Because „my family stays with me.“ Yeah, right. It might make more sense if the show had decided to play around with the Azor Ahai/ Nissa Nissa theme a bit. But in that story has barely been mentioned so far (or has it been mentioned at all?) I am very curious how this will play out in the book but if Stannis' motivation (Iron Throne for the true Baratheon king, peace and stability for Westeros etc.) does not change completely, I'd be very surprised if it is indeed Stannis that gives the order to burn Shireen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How will you guys feel if Stannis breaks down alone in a tent next episode? Like, full body sobbing. Change anything for you? It will make him more human than he seemed in this episode, but you can't really go half measures on burning a child to death. He will become AA and save the world or die trying. Otherwise, what's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raksha 2014 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I found it hard to tell whether Stannis had decided to kill Shireen to save the world or save his army and/or claim the Iron Throne. It was obvious that he loved her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survivor92 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Again, Shireen was entirely unmarriageable due to her grayscale. Yet another reason her purpose was to burn. There seems to be no indication that her greyscale would make her unable to have kids. It makes her less attractive, sure, but that's rarely a factor in marriage pacts in a medieval era. There were quite a lot of theories in fact that Shireen would end up marrying Rickon or Jon. If Stannis controls the IT then people would line up to have the chance to marry her. If Stannis dies and his men secure the IT for Shireen, the same thing applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 There seems to be no indication that her greyscale would make her unable to have kids. It makes her less attractive, sure, but that's rarely a factor in marriage pacts in a medieval era. There were quite a lot of theories in fact that Shireen would end up marrying Rickon or Jon. If Stannis controls the IT then people would line up to have the chance to marry her. If Stannis dies and his men secure the IT for Shireen, the same thing applies. Whether it's true or not, people will most likely believe it to be the case. Most half useful marriage prospects might well assume she's sterile, even if they're not too afraid to touch her in fear of catching her disease. Also consider that Westerosi men generally seem to have more say in who they marry than women. Consider how hard it was for Tywin to find a willing match for Tyrion, and Tyrion has much better prospects than Shireen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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