Bridgeburners Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Sorry for the accidental double post. Wish I could delete it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misnthropia Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 TV Stannis, no because D&D are clearly just going to run him straight into the dirt. Book Stannis. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follmann Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I don't really support Stannis because I'm not invested in that storyline anymore.You see, there's one tiny little thing missing from this show (and this season in particular) that's really important here: the whole goddamn North.The show simplified the whole thing into Stannis vs. Boltons. If Book!Stannis were to burn Shireen, his army would disband. He depends on his Northern followers and the tension brewing in Winterfell. His army is not in a better shape there, but he is pressing forward because there's no other option. So yeah, by simplifying things into Stannis vs. Boltons and making both of them unlikeable, there's really no one to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Yeah in the context that what he did is meant more as a Shakespearean tragedy then the sadistic actions of the Boltens, Lannsiters, and WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Queen Medea Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 No! Stannis was a complete piece of shit for what he allowed to happen in Dance of Dragons. He was actually one of my favorite before that happened, because he was more practical and level-headed than other people competing for the throne. Sacrificing his daughter was a complete departure from his character so far... A - because of the scene a few episodes ago where he showed that he actually loved his daughter very much despite her disease...that was thrown right out the window?! B - because for a "practical", strong leader to believe in a ritual where he sacrifices his daughter will give him good luck in battle is simply going full retard, especially when he is basically usurping his command to a complete twat like Mel. I just don't see Stannis going along with Mel's plan for his daughter. It made no sense. I suppose the real reason they had to make him do something eeeeeeviiiiiiil is to set it up so he will die and Jon will win the North. Bah.... I would've much preferred Stannis to fall in battle, with his integrity intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 TV Stannis: No. I need not say why. Book Stannis: No. He's a loser. He is prolonging a fight he can't win (the war for the throne). He believes he is the chosen one to lead a fight that he has no business leading (the war against the Others). I think he's a bully, out for power because that's the only way he can get people to submit to him. He has sold his soul for power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Cool! I submitted this thread Sunday night, and now it pops up! Sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I absolutely refuse to believe that Stannis will do that in the real story (the books). I am hoping that this has something to do with the producers killing a character they needed to advance the plot and had to do something crazy to make what they had 'work' I have been a Stannis man for 10 years, and this is worse than the red wedding if true. I will not believe it until I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris999 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 TV Stannis: No. I need not say why. Book Stannis: No. He's a loser. He is prolonging a fight he can't win (the war for the throne). He believes he is the chosen one to lead a fight that he has no business leading (the war against the Others). I think he's a bully, out for power because that's the only way he can get people to submit to him. He has sold his soul for power. That 'fight he cant win' is the fight for Humanity you know... If he doesnt fight it who will? All the other 'kings' are fighting each other or fighting to remain in power. Stannis if fighting to save the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfChaos Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Did anyone else get the feeling during that scene that Shireen was not in fact Stannis' natural daughter? It seemed to me that Selyse went crazy just after Stannis mentioned "blood of a king" as if she just realized that Shireen did not in fact have blood of the king. I wondered also if Melisandre looked away from the fire with a confused look on her face when she realized the same fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfChaos Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 [edit: double post] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 Nope. That was just a Lannister rumour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 You mean having to murder his daughter when he could have given up his obsessive quest to take the Iron Throne and instead used his huge army to defend the Wall against an attack by an undead legion? That Jon said were eating the Night's Watch supplies (remember, in ShowVerse there are only like a 100 Night's Watch members. They planned on feeding only that much. I'm not defending ShowStannis, I don't care about him, but I'm tired of people using stupid arguments to justify their dissing him. Same goes for anyone who ever brings up the whole "He uses blood magic and that's wrong!!!!1!1!" argument while they probably are rooting for Dany----the girl who burnt a rape victim and genocide survivor who had the temerity to use some magic against her genocidal rapist Dothraki husband. So yep, blood magic was the key to her whole Mother of Dragons career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbob Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 He has my pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyu-Chuck Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 In the show, no.... in the book, hell yeah! I will not take the word of the ones who cut off Stoneheart arc and placed Sansa on Winterfell.... some changes we can understand and ending up accepting it.... but other we simply can't..... until I see for myself on the books, I'm 100% Stannis.... There is those who thinks its impossible for the book Stannis to do it and others who think he will unquestionably.... there is enough proof to support both depending on how you interpret his motives, so enter in extensive raving arguments is just futile.... we need oly to accept the opionion of the other I realy thinks that he won't gonna do it.... nothing on his arc have showed that he is capable of sacrificing his own daughter fo a number of reasons: 1) He sacrificed only people who wronged him somehow: Lord Alester Florent tried to make peace with the Lannister (and give Shireen as a hostage); Guncer Sunglass and Lord Rambton's 2 sons were killed not by Stannis, but Selyse and Melisandre while Stannis was not at Dragonstone during the Blackwater, and even then they have defiled orders, the first decided to abandon Stannis' cause because he didin't want to accept R'hllor (he was punished not for the religion, but for the treason of abandoning his king) and the two brothers because they refused to let Stannis burn the Seven statues, and tried to stop it by force. Renly tried to stole the throne that was rightfully his, its simple.... its war, they used the weapons they have at hand..... and if you believe that Renly were not planning on killing Stannis as well, read the book again and see for yourself About Edric (Gendry, in the show), it was him who asked the proof of the power of kingsblood, not Davos and it took almost the entire 3th book for Melisandre to convince him to do it, and even then it was a nephew that he barely knew, not his daughter Mance Rayder was an deserter of the Night's Watch.... if you don't agree with this read the Bran's first chapter from the first book were Ned Stark execute a man for the same reason.... Last, but not least, during the march to Winterfell, were on the show he sacrificed his own daughter, on the books he refuses to sacrifice anyone but a group of soldiers that resorted to canibalism... he refuses to sacrifice Asha (who has kingsblood, by the way) and only considers sacrifice Theon because of the murder of "Bran" and "Rickon"..... the Karstarks have the choice to admit their treason and die by beheading or to deny and burn...... 2) He is constantly saying about his duty with her and her rights as his heir: "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother." "You will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the iron throne. Or die in the attempt" 3) Its not even close to compare a daughter to a nephew he barely knew, a brother that tried to steal everithing from him and to the other examples that I mentioned 4) and remeber, most of his bannermen follow other religions.... sacrifice his daughter means lose these men I will not say that is impossible for him to sacrifice his daughter.... its only very unlikely.... it will take much more then the reasons of the show for he to do it.... and I not saying it will be forgivable, but will be much more fitting to his character development than this ridiculous portrait that D&D made of him.... he is a grey character, and the fact that there is people who defend him and other who criticize him demonstrate it.... the show made him a darker character, and and its not in GRRM style to do it.... Geographically, he is not close to his daughter..... he took the entire 5th book to reach Winterfell.... but we have 2 books ahead of us, and its not impossible for them to reunite on WoW, I will admit, just very difficult due to winter and low supplies I can think it happening as Nissa Nissa part of the prophecy, the ultimate sacrifice to save mankind, but you never know with GRRM.... other option is Melisandre and Selyse, after the pink letter, try to sacrifice Shireen to ressurect AA, but ending ressurecting Jon....but what they will do after finding out that Stannis is not AA (that much I'm sure), and that he never died, I have no ideia.... but again, you never know with GRRM The only way for us to find out is reading the book..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 TV Stannis: No. I need not say why. Book Stannis: No. He's a loser. He is prolonging a fight he can't win (the war for the throne). He believes he is the chosen one to lead a fight that he has no business leading (the war against the Others). I think he's a bully, out for power because that's the only way he can get people to submit to him. He has sold his soul for power. :rofl: A loser who's alive, who's winning ATM (he's sitting on an alliance of powerful Northern lords, some of whom he's not even aware of at the moment, has access to the Iron Bank, has the best non-Targaryen claim to the throne and is also currently the only lord bringing any sort of order and justice to the North), has done the near impossible with limited resources and probably saved mankind by preventing the massacre of the Night's Watch that would have left the realm open to Other invasion. He's also the only lord in Westeros who both believes in and gives a crap about the impending Other invasion. So yeah...you are made of wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 No! Stannis was a complete piece of shit for what he allowed to happen in Dance of Dragons. He was actually one of my favorite before that happened, because he was more practical and level-headed than other people competing for the throne. Sacrificing his daughter was a complete departure from his character so far... A - because of the scene a few episodes ago where he showed that he actually loved his daughter very much despite her disease...that was thrown right out the window?! B - because for a "practical", strong leader to believe in a ritual where he sacrifices his daughter will give him good luck in battle is simply going full retard, especially when he is basically usurping his command to a complete twat like Mel. I just don't see Stannis going along with Mel's plan for his daughter. It made no sense. I suppose the real reason they had to make him do something eeeeeeviiiiiiil is to set it up so he will die and Jon will win the North. Bah.... I would've much preferred Stannis to fall in battle, with his integrity intact. I can't agree enough...seriously...the Stannis/Shireen greyscale speech brought fucking tears to my eyes. I was like...shell-shocked, like they're finally going to let this guy's humanity show (we knew several books ago about Stannis's tender inner nature with his Proudwing story, Cressen's own fatherly observations and Stannis's concern over Cressen's health). I actually believed D&D had turned the corner. Whatever his end they were at least going to treat this man with respect he was due, let his Rise-from-the-Ashes ADwD arc play out and become the king many fans and I dearly love. ..........I want to laugh hysterically at how naive that thought was. I want to mock past me mercilessly for letting the Great Other of Hacks bait and switch me so completely. But I can't, I'm too tired and I'm too set on putting them on notice with the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 :rofl: A loser who's alive, who's winning ATM (he's sitting on an alliance of powerful Northern lords, some of whom he's not even aware of at the moment, has access to the Iron Bank, has the best non-Targaryen claim to the throne and is also currently the only lord bringing any sort of order and justice to the North), has done the near impossible with limited resources and probably saved mankind by preventing the massacre of the Night's Watch that would have left the realm open to Other invasion. He's also the only lord in Westeros who both believes in and gives a crap about the impending Other invasion. So yeah...you are made of wrong. He's always been a loser. He's never gotten what he's wanted and never will. No one likes him. Killing Renly, believing in Melisandre's prophecy, is exactly why he lost the Blackwater battle. And still he believes in her foolishness. He waves that sword around like he's Azor Ahai but he's not. How will his lightbringer word against the ice cold blade of an Other? So what he knows about the true threat in the north when he's ill equipped to fight it? As for the Iron Bank, they hated the Valyrian dragonlords, the ones that practiced slavery. Daenerys is the complete opposite of that. Imagine how they will react to a Targaryen that wants to put an end to the slave trade, that has already done her best to disrupt it. A Targaryen with a better claim and better chance of winning the Iron Throne than someone like Stannis? Stannis is the blue eyed king who casts no shadow. He has seen a king with a crown of flames burning to death in one of his own visions. The man is doomed. To support him is folly.EDIT: Those northern lords want a Stark, not Stannis. Once again Davos is the one putting in the hard work. He told Stannis to go north to fight the real fight. Wyman Manderly put the task of finding Rickon in his hands. As much as I find Davos' chapters dull, he's the one I support over Stannis. He's the true steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyu-Chuck Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 As for the Iron Bank, they hated the Valyrian dragonlords, the ones that practiced slavery. Daenerys is the complete opposite of that. Imagine how they will react to a Targaryen that wants to put an end to the slave trade, that has already done her best to disrupt it. A Targaryen with a better claim and better chance of winning the Iron Throne than someone like Stannis? Stannis is the blue eyed king who casts no shadow. He has seen a king with a crown of flames burning to death in one of his own visions. The man is doomed. To support him is folly. You think they dont know this already? Even so they sent Tycho Nestoris to Stannis to offer a deal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 You think they dont know this already? Even so they sent Tycho Nestoris to Stannis to offer a deal..... They are concerned with the lack of payment from the seven kingdoms. Dany is ensconced in Meereen. That's why they come to Stannis and not Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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