[Spoilers] Hizdahr

[JonCon's Red Beard]

On a slightly different note, did anyone else think it was a little hypocritical of Dany to be all judgemental about watching men fight and die for sport when she was so obviously getting off on Daario's talk about killing people? I don't imagine that is what the writers were going for, but that's how it came across to me. Mind you, I find Show!Danaerys unbearable, so I'm biased.

Not really.

It's like people who enjoy rough sex or people. That does not mean they are ok or endorse sexual violence or any kind. Like, I like when my guys do "male grrr" things, but that doesn't mean I'll be ok if they go and start punching the hell of everybody.

[WSmith84]

Not really.

It's like people who enjoy rough sex or people. That does not mean they are ok or endorse sexual violence or any kind. Like, I like when my guys do "male grrr" things, but that doesn't mean I'll be ok if they go and start punching the hell of everybody.

Yes, but this wasn't so much 'I like rough sex, but I hate sexual violence.' This was 'I hate fighting for sport, except when my hot lover does it.' It's certianly not a characteristic of book Dany and I doubt that it was even an intentional thing that the showrunners were trying to portray. Still, character consistency isn't exactly their strongest point.

[Philpenn]

I was surprised Hizdahr didn't tell Daario to get out of his face. Dude's a dirtbag sellsword, and he was practically on top of the Noble soon to be King. Daario was like someone sitting in the backseat of a car trying to be part of the conversation up front. Hizdahr should have said take five steps back, turn around, and watch out for danger since that's your job and all.

[Arkash]

HIzdhar is most certainly aware Daario is his Queen's lover, and he's smart enough not to react on Daario's provocations.

[Drogonthedread]

HIzdhar is most certainly aware Daario is his Queen's lover, and he's smart enough not to react on Daario's provocations.

it was Hizdar who first provoked darrio ..saying that Kings and queens dont make bets why cant you go to where they do

[TheKitttenGuard]

it was Hizdar who first provoked darrio ..saying that Kings and queens dont make bets why cant you go to where they do

He took a personal insult. Daario fought in the pits. He should know that Queens or Kings are not to bet on the fights.

[WSmith84]

I was surprised Hizdahr didn't tell Daario to get out of his face. Dude's a dirtbag sellsword, and he was practically on top of the Noble soon to be King. Daario was like someone sitting in the backseat of a car trying to be part of the conversation up front. Hizdahr should have said take five steps back, turn around, and watch out for danger since that's your job and all.

And considering how close that SotH got to Dany before Jorah speared him, it appears that Daario and the Unsullied did a shit security job.

[RoamingRonin]

Joel Fry had a great voice. Something about his mouth always bothered me though. I do think Hizdahr is still alive, though.

Best one of these I've seen so far is Hizdahr's father being referred to as Hizdad. :D

First Septa Spoonella now this.:lol:

[cade]

Yes, but this wasn't so much 'I like rough sex, but I hate sexual violence.' This was 'I hate fighting for sport, except when my hot lover does it.' It's certianly not a characteristic of book Dany and I doubt that it was even an intentional thing that the showrunners were trying to portray. Still, character consistency isn't exactly their strongest point.

It's not like Daario was talking about killing people purely for fun. He was a slave and an underdog fighting for survival, while the Hizdahrs of the world would've delighted in seeing his head chopped off. Daario was also sending a message to Hizdahr and Dany enjoyed that.

I've always assumed that they are a group of "elite" people from Meereen; both former slave master and super rich that resent Dany's rule because it weakend the amount of money and power they had in the city. A sort of violent "country club" or secret society. At least that's what you gather from the show version. That whole scene starts out with Hizdahr saying "I was just making sure that things are in order." That's a pretty ominous line to start that scene. My bet is that somehow his death was staged.

I'm sure he is dead. I think the point of Hizdahr was to show that some of the slave masters were amenable to compromise and peace with Dany (since she had overwhelming force), but that they were a minority and it's time to unleash the dragon.

Lower classes are also part of the Harpy. There's the prostitute and the Harpy assassin said to have been "young and poor." Dany thought he was fighting to bring back slavery because "the only thing that gave him pride was knowing that there was someone lower than he was." This is amended from ADwD, when a customs officer near Volantis tells Tyrion, "Poor men hate her too. Even the vilest beggar stands higher than a slave. This dragon queen would rob him of that consolation.”

[Estelindis]

I was surprised Hizdahr didn't tell Daario to get out of his face. Dude's a dirtbag sellsword, and he was practically on top of the Noble soon to be King. Daario was like someone sitting in the backseat of a car trying to be part of the conversation up front. Hizdahr should have said take five steps back, turn around, and watch out for danger since that's your job and all.

it was Hizdar who first provoked darrio ..saying that Kings and queens dont make bets why cant you go to where they do

It's interesting to see such different reactions to the same scene. The way I see it, Daario intruded inappopriately and Hizdahr told him to remove himself, but Daario didn't because he knew Dany liked him much more than she liked Hizdahr, so he could do whatever he liked. Dany's smiling reaction to Daario's knife-play around Hizdahr's neck confirmed that Daario was right about that.

I've seen some people say that they never loved Daario more than at this moment, precisely because he was being so roguishly inappropriate. They found his disregard for social convention very charming, even a gift to Dany who didn't really want to be bound by these conventions. While I can see where they're coming from, my personal reaction was the opposite. Dany chose to marry Hizdahr for the sake of peace in Meereen, so holding a weapon to his neck in front of tens of thousands of people was stupidly counter-productive.

I'm sure he is dead. I think the point of Hizdahr was to show that some of the slave masters were amenable to compromise and peace with Dany (since she had overwhelming force), but that they were a minority and it's time to unleash the dragon.

Lower classes are also part of the Harpy. There's the prostitute and the Harpy assassin said to have been "young and poor." Dany thought he was fighting to bring back slavery because "the only thing that gave him pride was knowing that there was someone lower than he was." This is amended from ADwD, when a customs officer near Volantis tells Tyrion, "Poor men hate her too. Even the vilest beggar stands higher than a slave. This dragon queen would rob him of that consolation.”

Astutely observed, especially that last quote.

[cade]

^Thanks, and I agree re: Daario. Was good to see him put in his place, if only momentarily.

[tws1978]

Hizdahr on the show was a colaborant who agreed to compromise with the occuppying force. That´s why the harpy murdered him. If we look at the story from the side of Meereen nobles it probably goes like this:

1) Danny gets control of the city and the SoF is establised. Hizdahr is very likely there or atleast knows who is behind it but doesn´t think it´s a smart move. He is truly his father´s son and sort of a progressive between the slavers nobility. But he is in a minority so the attacks starts

2) The SoH kills Barristan and Dany burns that one nobility guy as the last warning. Then she does the surprising turn and proposes to Hizdahr and agrees to open the fighting pits

3) Hizdahr goes to the secret meeting and argues there are only two options. Either they agree to work with Dany and keep most of their riches and power, or the SoH attacks continues and she will eventually burn all of them alive. This is the moment where Dany burning that one maybe innocent guy actually proves quite smart. So far they thought they are untouchable because nobody knows who the SoH are. But if she simply chooses to burn them in their place they have nowhere to hide. This gives Hizdahr´s argument the weight it needed so he wins the majority and the SoH are ordered to stop

4) Hizdahr continues to consolidate his power which doesn´t sit well with the former leaders. Before Dany he used to be the son of the odd one and suddenly he is the most powerfull guy in the city after Dany. He formers a new group of similary thinking nobles around himself and probably even starts to like some of the reforms and changes Dany plans for the city. He IS the progressive after all. They very much accept that Dany is in the control now and start to think about the best way they can work with her.

5) Meantime, the former leaders don´t like the changes at all. They are still rich and alive but they lost all the power and they hate that Hizdahr and his group of Dany´s asskissers are now in control. They realize their last chance to bring the good old times back is to get rid of both of them in one last desperate move.

6) Which is exactly what we see in the arena. They know they have to strike Dany first, otherwise she will burns them down, and at the same time kill Hizdahr and as much of his traitors as possible so there is no alternative and strong dissent voice left after the contra revolution.

After this failed attempt I doubt there will be much of SoH left and suspect Tyrion will deal with them quickly and mercilessly. This was their last desperate move and they lost it and they also upset a lot of their own people in the process.

[Talking Hodor]

The harpy stabbing Hizdhar was most likely staged. Even if it wasn't, Hizhdar in their eyes was a traitor for marrying Daenerys.

There is no way in hell Daario is the Son of the Harpy. He's utterly devoted to his queen, isn't Mereenese, is a former slave, and utterly humiliated the city's champion by killing his horse, gutting him, and pissing all over his corpse. Anyone who suggests he is the leader of a insurgency comprising Mereenese nobles has departed the land of reality and started smoking some serious brain-numbing hallucinogens.

The attack in the arena, from what I saw, seemed to be directed mostly at freedmen, but if a few noblemen sympathetic to Daenerys got in their way, so be it. Their objective, as with any terrorist organization is to strike terror in the hearts of their enemies or their sympathizers, not to conduct surgical strikes against obvious enemy targets.

Also, they paused in their assault in the middle of the arena because they suddenly faced a ring of Unsullied in a position where the Unsullied could use their weapons to their advantage - a wide-open pit vs. cramped spectator stands. Plus, they were probably a bit exhausted after their killing spree in the stands. Hand-to-hand combat is exhausting, especially, I would imagine, for a bunch of out-of-shape former slave owners. They had cut off all escape routes, so rather than performing an all-out assault where the queen would have a chance to escape, they're going to pick her defenders off slowly, never breaking their encircling ranks or giving anybody a chance to flee.

Finally, since show-Barristan is dead, it looks like poor Tyrion will once again have to lead a city in its defenses against a besieging force with its ruler in absentia. I predict he sets the other two dragons free and lets them do what wildfire did in the siege of Blackwater.

[ummester]

Not really.

It's like people who enjoy rough sex or people. That does not mean they are ok or endorse sexual violence or any kind. Like, I like when my guys do "male grrr" things, but that doesn't mean I'll be ok if they go and start punching the hell of everybody.

See, my wife thinks very similar to that. She likes me to be manly but gets embarrassed if I actually front up to snot someone. So I think and tell her that she's a hypocrite, to which she tells me shes a woman :)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

See, my wife thinks very similar to that. She likes me to be manly but gets embarrassed if I actually front up to snot someone. So I think and tell her that she's a hypocrite, to which she tells me shes a woman :)

We women aren't hypocrites. We have... "variability of opinions".

[ummester]

We women aren't hypocrites. We have... "variability of opinions".

I'll say that to mrs ummester next time 'are you having a variability of opinion my sweet?' She probably be shocked that she hasn't made me confused or cranky, you'd think I would have learnt by now. But we men aren't stupid, or slow learners, we're just manly :D

[Estelindis]

The attack in the arena, from what I saw, seemed to be directed mostly at freedmen

What makes you say that? From what I saw, the people being stabbed were wearing clothing typical of nobles, whereas those wearing clothing typical of former slaves were passed by.

[HTN02]

What makes you say that? From what I saw, the people being stabbed were wearing clothing typical of nobles, whereas those wearing clothing typical of former slaves were passed by.

rewatched the entire scene 3 times, and your right. not a single former slave is attacked.

[ShadowKitteh]

I suspect Daario

Nah. Daario was killing them. Unless..... he's disguised when talking to them, or has someone else front for him and that person gives instructions to the Harpies.

perhaps.

This might be one thing we don't get resolved. :dunno:

[jarl the climber]

Hizdahr on the show was a colaborant who agreed to compromise with the occuppying force. That´s why the harpy murdered him. If we look at the story from the side of Meereen nobles it probably goes like this:

1) Danny gets control of the city and the SoF is establised. Hizdahr is very likely there or atleast knows who is behind it but doesn´t think it´s a smart move. He is truly his father´s son and sort of a progressive between the slavers nobility. But he is in a minority so the attacks starts

2) The SoH kills Barristan and Dany burns that one nobility guy as the last warning. Then she does the surprising turn and proposes to Hizdahr and agrees to open the fighting pits

3) Hizdahr goes to the secret meeting and argues there are only two options. Either they agree to work with Dany and keep most of their riches and power, or the SoH attacks continues and she will eventually burn all of them alive. This is the moment where Dany burning that one maybe innocent guy actually proves quite smart. So far they thought they are untouchable because nobody knows who the SoH are. But if she simply chooses to burn them in their place they have nowhere to hide. This gives Hizdahr´s argument the weight it needed so he wins the majority and the SoH are ordered to stop

4) Hizdahr continues to consolidate his power which doesn´t sit well with the former leaders. Before Dany he used to be the son of the odd one and suddenly he is the most powerfull guy in the city after Dany. He formers a new group of similary thinking nobles around himself and probably even starts to like some of the reforms and changes Dany plans for the city. He IS the progressive after all. They very much accept that Dany is in the control now and start to think about the best way they can work with her.

5) Meantime, the former leaders don´t like the changes at all. They are still rich and alive but they lost all the power and they hate that Hizdahr and his group of Dany´s asskissers are now in control. They realize their last chance to bring the good old times back is to get rid of both of them in one last desperate move.

6) Which is exactly what we see in the arena. They know they have to strike Dany first, otherwise she will burns them down, and at the same time kill Hizdahr and as much of his traitors as possible so there is no alternative and strong dissent voice left after the contra revolution.

After this failed attempt I doubt there will be much of SoH left and suspect Tyrion will deal with them quickly and mercilessly. This was their last desperate move and they lost it and they also upset a lot of their own people in the process.

I think the SOH nobles went along with Hizdar and his plan so they could get Dany in the arena and hatch their plot to kill her.