jbob Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 She's Lady Macbeth and Stannis is Macbeth. I reckon she'll kill herself out of guilt. I could believe she'd do that after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The easy response: D&D are very bad writers. They thoght that they needed someone to break down to add some more drama. They thought that it couldn't be Mel, and Stannis would have had the power to stop it. So they assigned the role to Selyse. Nevermind that they have constructed her character as a fanatic who despises Shireen. This pair of incompetent writers have never let character building step into the way of "moving the plot forward" or "doing a cool scene". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1Transam Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Women are all reduced to the motherhood role in this stupid show if they have children, so this did not come as a surprise. If they would have been innovative or smart they would have Stannis break down at the last possible moment, only to have Selyse calling him a sissy and slapping some sense into him. Stannis was the one who liked her, not Selyse. And this whole 'just because somebody has grown into your womb you have to like him' thing is clearly wrong. Just curious, do you have kids? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Selyse didn't want Shireen to come with them north. We and Shireen are meant to think it's because she doesn't like her daughter but actually is because she knows Mel wants to burn her. It's not a change of character, it's a reveal of true intentions. Shireen works it out, she knows which parent to call to save her. Also Selyse is weak and emo so her actions fit her character. While Stannis is ... Stannis is just an arsehole.I never thought about that line Shireen had about Selyse not wanting to bring her in that context, nice catch.Selyse was visualizing this happening since season 3 when Mel showed her it in the fires and she thought that she was ok with it, until she actually saw it happening. To a lesser extent I think that's why D&D need to do some of the white washing they do with the characters. As an example, most of the book readers, including myself, love Tyrion and we read about him having sex with the slave against her will, at the brothel in Selhorys, twice. Then treating her like shit and kicking her out. Right before Jorah takes him prisoner. I (and hopefully most readers)are not ok with this but don't actually see it so we can forgive it as a custom of the time. If we were actually to see it play out on TV though and literally watch it happen I think there'd be a majority of people who wouldn't be able to forgive his character for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northernmonkey Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 She's Lady Macbeth and Stannis is Macbeth. I reckon she'll kill herself out of guilt. I could believe should do that after this. That's exactly what i think will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obiwan_shenobi Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I thought it was a really nice touch that was really poorly executed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenegg Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Selyse killing (only) herself wouldn't mean much - she's a minor character and no one cares about her anyway. But, if Stannis is Agamemnon and Shireen is Iphigenia, then Selyse-Clyteminestra has some avenging to do. I hope she kills Melisandre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphigenia EDIT: It would fit. I forgot Cassandra in the equation. Clytaminestra killed Agamemnon and Cassandra both.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clytemnestra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallam Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Selyse killing (only) herself wouldn't mean much - she's a minor character and no one cares about her anyway. But, if Stannis is Agamemnon and Shireen is Iphigenia, then Selyse-Clyteminestra has some avenging to do. I hope she kills Melisandre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphigenia EDIT: It would fit. I forgot Cassandra in the equation. Clytaminestra killed Agamemnon and Cassandra both. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clytemnestra Yep, that is what I have been expecting all along. Sylese kills Stannis and Patchface kills Mel. I forget where he is in the books but I am pretty sure he offs the evil witch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artihcus022 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's a classic melodramatic twist. The fanatic who hated the girl is the one who repents at the end while the kind guy goes ahead with it. It's pure melodrama. Nothing essential worth concluding or discussing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 That was actually one of the few things in this episode which made sense to me. When she saw her daughter dying in a horrible way, she changed her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldric Storm Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Lets think about this point- why would D&D characterise Selyse as being protective of Shireen in her final moments if they didn't know the true reason for the burning in the books? There honestly is no point in changing her character if she doesn't do the same in TWOW. Other than the scenario which takes place in the show, maybe Mel burns Shireen for Jon (not Stannis), causing Selyse to freak out? Thoughts? the Selyse in the show is nothing like the one in the book. In fact watching through most of the show thus far every single character is quite different than the ones in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErasmusF Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The easy response: D&D are very bad writers. They thoght that they needed someone to break down to add some more drama. They thought that it couldn't be Mel, and Stannis would have had the power to stop it. So they assigned the role to Selyse. Nevermind that they have constructed her character as a fanatic who despises Shireen. This pair of incompetent writers have never let character building step into the way of "moving the plot forward" or "doing a cool scene". I like how everything has to boil down to D&D being bad writers. Have you perchance noticed how tedious Dany is in the books? How there are hundreds of pages of walking through Westeros with no apparent point, but to be a mechanism for foreshadowing? At some point GRRM takes some of the blame for how this story has meandered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Stoneheart Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Selyse in show is different than book Selyse. However, fortunately, we are gifted with an actor who can make a few mere lines very powerful. I thought Fitzgerald was exceptional last night, and her human connection with her only daughter was believable, even in the face of her self-deprecating zealotry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I like how everything has to boil down to D&D being bad writers. Have you perchance noticed how tedious Dany is in the books? How there are hundreds of pages of walking through Westeros with no apparent point, but to be a mechanism for foreshadowing? At some point GRRM takes some of the blame for how this story has meandered. And he does. There's been plenty of criticism of GRRM in this forums and elsewhere stating that the story grew out of his control, and that some heavy editing would have helped AFFC and ADWD. I would agree with anyone who said that GRRM is not a very good planner, and that a lot of problems in his novels arise from this (being incapable of predicting when he'll finish a book, scraping the 5 year gap, sepparating Feast and Dance, taking away the two concluding battles from Dance...). And while he is a bad planner, he is an excellent writer. His characters are very real, their motivations are perfectly presented, the plot grows organically, the prose is beautiful, etc. That's not something that can be said of D&D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless She-wolf Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I personally think that even though Selyse was horrible to Shireen for so long, seeing your own daughter crying out in pain, begging to see her mother and father, that would mess you up. You always have an amazing bond with your own child, she still loved Shireen and seeing her child like that no matter how much she believes in the red god and sacrificing, you don't want your child in that kind of pain; you're going to reach out to save her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Children question: No. But I know that there are women who both despise becoming pregnant, and who very much don't want children, nor like the children they have very much (or at all). Selyse being introduced as such a character - a character who actually wept out of joy when he own brother was burned in season 4 - it makes no sense really that she would actually want to save Shireen (or care about her). Writing stuff: There are very few motivational or character flaws in the books George writes, especially not with his POV characters. In fact, this is what makes those books - that you can actually take his characters as real people (at least for the most part). I'd say that if George had the chance to actually finish the whole story before he published any of it - after all, it is one huge book and not multiple loosely interconnected, independent novels - we could reasonably assume that even those weak points would no longer be in there. But if you want a class in erratic character development and bad dialogue D&D are your guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalia Borgia Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Lets think about this point- why would D&D characterise Selyse as being protective of Shireen in her final moments if they didn't know the true reason for the burning in the books? There honestly is no point in changing her character if she doesn't do the same in TWOW. Other than the scenario which takes place in the show, maybe Mel burns Shireen for Jon (not Stannis), causing Selyse to freak out? Thoughts? She is gonna be LHS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharvot Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The easy response: D&D are very bad writers. They thoght that they needed someone to break down to add some more drama. They thought that it couldn't be Mel, and Stannis would have had the power to stop it. So they assigned the role to Selyse. Nevermind that they have constructed her character as a fanatic who despises Shireen. This pair of incompetent writers have never let character building step into the way of "moving the plot forward" or "doing a cool scene". Actually, they got the idea from GRRM himself...so there goes your faulty theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Agrippa Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Actually, they got the idea from GRRM himself...so there goes your faulty theory. Rewatch it. They only cleared the fact that shireen is going to be burned in the book. That has been for shadowed. D&D probably added Stannis because, well they just sort of suck. Nothing they have done since season 3 has made any real logical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark the Red Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 At some point GRRM takes some of the blame for how this story has meandered. Agreed. He is clearly making this up as he goes along. Can't blame D&D for this anymore. Sometimes writers just get too big to edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.