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(Book Spoilers)PSA: Regarding E09's controversial moment. It was GRRM's idea.


Snark88

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You don't know that. Stannis could still do it at a different time and place.

Point is, a lot of people are jumping the gun.

Yes but there is literally no sign or forshadowing of Stannis doing this in the books, whereas Mel clearly has a reason to, to resurrect Jon etc. I also think its pretty weak of D@D to mention that 'George told them', just to justify the scene. I mean, they could have left it a bit of a mystery, instead of flat out spoiling the books. What a fucker. I very much doubt that book Stannis would do this, as well as being logistically impossible, it goes against his whole story arc. Having Shireen burnt by Mel, after his victory, and having that tragedy souring his victory is a much more plausible story arc. Either he wins the battle of the Ice or not, Shireen has nothing to do with it. Now noone could give a rats arse who wins the battle between the Boltons and Stannis. It robs the battle of any attachment whatsoever, and confirms D&D as hack writers with no sense of storytelling or consistent characterizations. It has been well discussed on this forum that Stannis only burnt traitors and criminals in the books, never for religious reasons. So I guess this is more consistent with show Stannis, but even then.... And we get the reason from David...ambition? What? Book Stannis stopped talking about ambition after ACOK, but hey, who cares right?
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Now that I think about it, D&D have had axe to grind with Stannis for a while now. They have openly said that Stannis is one of their least favorites and that he would be a terrible King. So it would not shock me if the GRRM version did not have Stannis directly involved and it was a case of character assassination.



But of course he could very well be involved it is just difficult to think how it'd work in the books.


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Said in the other thread but I can almost guarantee you that a few lines of dialogue will be different and maybe some of the actual events surrounding it will be slightly different (like winter will be a lot worse and the situation will be more dire, or Selyse won't be around and Mel will be all over him about it) and then the purists will cling to that with a death grip to say this is why it was right in the book and wrong in the show.

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Now that I think about it, D&D have had axe to grind with Stannis for a while now. They have openly said that Stannis is one of their least favorites and that he would be a terrible King. So it would not shock me if the GRRM version did not have Stannis directly involved and it was a case of character assassination.

But of course he could very well be involved it is just difficult to think how it'd work in the books.

Plenty of people hated Stannis. Plenty of people lots of book characters that are supposed to be likeable. People hate Brienne and Dany. Don't see why it should be controversial that D+D don't like Stannis. I don't like him and can't see what see in him. I don't think GRRM even wanted him to be likeable.

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You don't know that. Stannis could still do it at a different time and place.

Point is, a lot of people are jumping the gun.

Exactly-- if Stannis takes Winterfell, then what?

Obviously his narrative isn't over and he'll be facing more and more disasters, at which point maybe GRRM had planned for him to sacrifice her then

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Yes but there is literally no sign or forshadowing of Stannis doing this in the books, whereas Mel clearly has a reason to, to resurrect Jon etc. I also think its pretty weak of D@D to mention that 'George told them', just to justify the scene. I mean, they could have left it a bit of a mystery, instead of flat out spoiling the books. What a fucker. I very much doubt that book Stannis would do this, as well as being logistically impossible, it goes against his whole story arc. Having Shireen burnt by Mel, after his victory, and having that tragedy souring his victory is a much more plausible story arc. Either he wins the battle of the Ice or not, Shireen has nothing to do with it. Now noone could give a rats arse who wins the battle between the Boltons and Stannis. It robs the battle of any attachment whatsoever, and confirms D&D as hack writers with no sense of storytelling or consistent characterizations. It has been well discussed on this forum that Stannis only burnt traitors and criminals in the books, never for religious reasons. So I guess this is more consistent with show Stannis, but even then.... And we get the reason from David...ambition? What? Book Stannis stopped talking about ambition after ACOK, but hey, who cares right?

I don't think Mel does it to resurrect Jon. I think she does it to resurrect the stone dragons.

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Said in the other thread but I can almost guarantee you that a few lines of dialogue will be different and maybe some of the actual events surrounding it will be slightly different (like winter will be a lot worse and the situation will be more dire, or Selyse won't be around and Mel will be all over him about it) and then the purists will cling to that with a death grip to say this is why it was right in the book and wrong in the show.

What you suggest is literally impossible, the books are beyond the Battle of Winterfell and Shireen is still alive at the Wall...

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Plenty of people hated Stannis. Plenty of people lots of book characters that are supposed to be likeable. People hate Brienne and Dany. Don't see why it should be controversial that D+D don't like Stannis. I don't like him and can't see what see in him. I don't think GRRM even wanted him to be likeable.

There's a difference between not liking X and taking away all of X's good traits and making him caricature.

Anyways, I actually think Stannis might burn Shireen (I also think Mel is a possibility or even that D&D is lying so they can pass on the blame on GRRM). The thing I find is bullshit, is the weak "our supplies were burned by Ramsay Bolton who is apparently a ninja" and does it almost immediately. No starvation. Just "Fuck it. Let's kill my daughter." Do we get an awesome story about a man becoming a monster like GRRM will presumably write? Nope. Stannis has been a monster all along in the show.

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It's been a character assassination from day one with these guys.

Anyways it's absolutely hilarious. I'd sooner root for the Bolton's now. Or the Others.

The show is completely fucked.

how is the show fucked? The books are more fucked. its been average writing since the first book. the show has done a great job of putting great tv this season frm avg book material.

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Stannis was burning men or allowing men to be burned as sacrifice since his introduction. Stannis slew is brother with a shadow baby and was willing to sacrifice his nephew. Stannis burned Mance (Rattleshirt). It's not much of a leap to believe he will one day burn his daughter if it's necessary to claim his throne.


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He said George "told us about this", which is incredibly vague.

Since George has said he's had nothing to do with this season I very much doubt this was his intent.

Anyway I'm extremely skeptical this will ever happen in the books.

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If Shireen burns in TWOW, I expect Melisandre will do it to revive Jon.

She's interested in Jon and what he can do for Stannis, nothing more. However, she left the hall immediately after Jon read the news of Stannis' death, so much more likely that's who the sacfrice would be for.

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Quote is extremely vague. Nothing along these lines is proven, and even if the OP turns out to be right, they don't know that they're right at this moment in time.


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There's a difference between not liking X and taking away all of X's good traits and making him caricature.

Anyways, I actually think Stannis might burn Shireen (I also think Mel is a possibility or even that D&D is lying so they can pass on the blame on GRRM). The thing I find is bullshit, is the weak "our supplies were burned by Ramsay Bolton who is apparently a ninja" and does it almost immediately. No starvation. Just "Fuck it. Let's kill my daughter." Do we get an awesome story about a man becoming a monster like GRRM will presumably write? Nope. Stannis has been a monster all along in the show.

It wasn't just the burned supplies thing. Davos has pointed out several times how hopeless the situation was, and it was made even worse with this event. It was the straw that broke the camel's back and enough to make Stannis take a monstrous leap of faith out of desperation.

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I'd put money that George is going to burn this girl as well.

Absolutely and I bet that George will have Stannis do it for the exact same reason - to take Winterfell.

Book Stannis has been caught in a snowstorm and his army is slowly starving to death. They look set to burn Theon and Jeyne Poole. The pyres have been built for fucks sake.

Well, when he defeats the Bolton's he can go back to Castle Black and burn Shireen there. Or he could bring her to Winterfell. They almost died just getting close to Winterfell, I imagine it's going to be even harder to get south. Mel could use that argument.

Nah, no need.

I've yet to hear one decent explanation as to HOW Stannis will possibly burn his own daughter in the books. And if he does, it would be under more drastic circumstances than "Ram(bo)sey burned my horses." Stannis's character has always been a shade of gray in the books; as usual all of the nuance was lost on HBO.

Dead simple.

Book Stannis is trapped, his army will starve to death without food. Read the books, it is already happening. I expected Stannis to have another burning to get Winterfell and I read the books before I watched any of the show.

Book Stannis has Theon and Jeyne to burn. So he has to send for Mel to burn them. Mel arrives with Shireen. She then points out that Theon's best parts are missing and Jeyne is a fake.

It is only hard to imagine if you have no imagination. Of course book Shireen gets burned by her dad for the Iron throne.

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