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(Book Spoilers)PSA: Regarding E09's controversial moment. It was GRRM's idea.


Snark88

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Ouch. Seriously.

Initally I'd thought that this was just the showrunners screwing up Stannis' character, but now that I know George was behind it...yikes.

Still, this is NOT something Stannis would do. Someone else, like the rapists/cannibals in the books, sure, but his own freaking daughter?

Just...no.

If Shireen is burned, it won't be by Stannis' orders. He's no where near Castle Black. It will be something cooked up by Melisandre and/or Selyse. The books make kinslaying a huge taboo while the show doesn't.

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The Stannis haters seem to be committing the very crime that they accuse the Stannis lovers of: ironclad certainty



Heh - On a relate note, maybe this is what's going to be happening from hear on out where we don't have the show masking the books so closely.


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If Shireen is burned, it won't be by Stannis' orders. He's no where near Castle Black. It will be something cooked up by Melisandre and/or Selyse. The books make kinslaying a huge taboo while the show doesn't.

I know, I'm talking about the show, not the books.

It's unlikely that it'll be Stannis who does it in the books.

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This is like defending the Sansa rape scene with "it was GRRM's idea for Ramsay to rape his bride on his wedding night".

Just because something similarly horrible happens doesn't mean it's the same thing. Plots, characters, motivations, have all been altered beyond recognition.

Exactly. Some Stannis haters here are just loving the massacre of the books, but Im not a fan.
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If Stannis gets his behind kicked in the Battle of Winterfell and goes limping back to Castle Black to find Jon dead, he might very well burn Shireen.

I suppose I should stop shipping Shireen and Rickon, though.

Fuck it. I'm still waving the Shireen for queen flag. My utter lack of faith in D&D helps with my denial.

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Stannis fans are in denial lol



I knew something was off about this guy since season 2


( but the fanboys kept saying that Stannis was a good guy and he only seemed like a bad guy because of how D&D were portraying him




never trust a man who was a red witch Whispering in his ear...


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I cannot believe book!Stannis would sacrifice his own daughter in that situation. It just doesn't fit with how GRRM has written him in any way. When was the last time Stannis sacrificed a purely innocent person in the books?

....

not in the situation we saw on the show, but in the books GRRM can easily create a situation where stannis burns her and it would fit. remember that this cannot happen before he comes back to the wall, which will be after the battle. so a couple of things can happen in between.

- Edric Storm: admittedly, Stannis was about to burn him. He admitted to Davos though that he was innocent and he would have been at fault. Given that he learned this lesson, why would he suddenly burn his own daughter for the same reason?

.

so how exactly did he learn anything? he knew it would have been wrong from the beginning, but wanted to do it anyway. then he did what he thought was right and what did he get for it?

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I cannot believe book!Stannis would sacrifice his own daughter in that situation. It just doesn't fit with how GRRM has written him in any way. When was the last time Stannis sacrificed a purely innocent person in the books?

....

not in the situation we saw on the show, but in the books GRRM can easily create a situation where stannis burns her and it would fit. remember that this cannot happen before he comes back to the wall, which will be after the battle. so a couple of things can happen in between.

- Edric Storm: admittedly, Stannis was about to burn him. He admitted to Davos though that he was innocent and he would have been at fault. Given that he learned this lesson, why would he suddenly burn his own daughter for the same reason?

.

so how exactly did he learn anything? he knew it would have been wrong from the beginning, but wanted to do it anyway. then he did what he thought was right and what did he get for it?

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This is like defending the Sansa rape scene with "it was GRRM's idea for Ramsay to rape his bride on his wedding night".

Just because something similarly horrible happens doesn't mean it's the same thing. Plots, characters, motivations, have all been altered beyond recognition.

what a ridiculous comparison

it was not GRRM's idea to have Sansa raped and D&D never said it was

but its very clear that Shireen being burned was GRRM idea and it would not shock me at all if happens in the next book

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If it does turn out that Stannis does not give the order for Shireen's burning in TWOW, then Stannis fans will have definitive proof that D&D have gone out of their way to make him look as shitty as possible. We shall see in a year or so....



The fact that this has happened to her before Jon Snow's stabbing also strongly indicates her burning will have absolutely nothing to do with his resurrection. It looks like Bran and BR will be doing that after all. I'm kinda glad Mel will not be involved in bringing him back to be honest, I don't want Jon feeling like he owes her something. I want her to die as soon as fucking possible.


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Stannis fans are in denial lol

I knew something was off about this guy since season 2

( but the fanboys kept saying that Stannis was a good guy and he only seemed like a bad guy because of how D&D were portraying him

never trust a man who was a red witch Whispering in his ear...

Well considering it is the show's portrayal, it's still a valid point.

Hell, they even talk about the show's portrayal when talking about what GRRM told them.

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not in the situation we saw on the show, but in the books GRRM can easily create a situation where stannis burns her and it would fit. remember that this cannot happen before he comes back to the wall, which will be after the battle. so a couple of things can happen in between.

so how exactly did he learn anything? he knew it would have been wrong from the beginning, but wanted to do it anyway. then he did what he thought was right and what did he get for it?

But this is so confusing! Say Shireen will be sacrificed in the books for the next big thing after The Siege of Winterfell. What will the show do then? Skip it? Burn someone else?

I think the only way Shireen gets burned in the books is when Mel thinks Stannis died because of the Pink letter, and she burns Shireen in an attempt to resurrect him. This way, Stannis his opinion would be irrelevant as he wasn't even considered alive to ask him.

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Stannis :



Kills his brother Renly.


Kills his maester.


Kills his daughter.


Almost surely writes the letter that leads up to Jon's stabbing.


Resorts to black magic with Melisandre, burning the leeches (Robb, Balon and Joffrey).



Has some good excuses for his actions, but that's it. In the end, all things considered, he's as evil as Ramsay or Roose, using all the means to get the Iron Throne, he didn't go to the Wall just because of the good of the Realm, he wanted to be reedemed and gather followers by this.


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In bookWesteros, Azor Ahai sacrificrs Nissa Nissa to create Lightbringer. Sacrificing the thing he loved most (and I believe she bared her breast to him willingly) was a huge part of the AA story - it's going to have to be acknowledged in the books. I can't remember if we even heard the story on the show, obviously if we did, I didn't find it very memorable. So I think that BookStannis can be set up with a strong motivation for having to make this choice that was both foreshadowed and makes sense, without having to resort to the show's logic.

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